Unlocking Podcast Potential with Spencer Carpenter

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This was a new medium where you didn't have to be a celebrity to be able to put value out to the world.

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And they were willing to do it for free, which I thought was so cool.

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That played into the, the education curation that came from me doing that music conference was we brought industry professionals into Lancaster, Pennsylvania, Amish country to give information away.

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And so I loved that about podcasts is that you could learn about any subject for free.

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Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that lead them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.

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Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.

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Come join us and find the way to your dream life.

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Welcome back to the way finder show.

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I'm your host louis hernandez and today we're joined by my good friend spencer carpenter Spencer is the founder of outlier audio a full service podcast booking agency that has helped entrepreneurs authors and investors especially in the real estate space And um to to amplify their voices and grow their businesses With a fascinating background in the music industry spencer transitioned to podcasting during the pandemic During the pandemic, booking nearly 2000 interviews and helping over 250 clients from solo preneurs to billion dollar investment funds, connect with millions of listeners.

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He's also the host of questions with a podcast booking agent, where he shares his insights and tips for navigating the podcast world.

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Spencer, welcome to the way finder show.

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Hey, man, thanks for having me.

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I appreciate it.

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We've been talking about doing this for, you know, probably close to two years now.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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Thank you for finally coming on, man.

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I've been, uh, I'm excited.

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You know, I know you're a really humble guy and you don't like to, you know, talk about your story, but I actually think it's a really.

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Uh, it's a really inspiring one because you've pretty much been a real scrappy entrepreneur from, since high school, right?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I by no means consider myself an entrepreneurial success story, but I've successfully, uh, avoided having a job for most of my adult life.

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Having a, a W 2 job.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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No, I mean, I think, uh, we think about entrepreneurs.

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In like the way, you know, those, somebody goes and finds a company, it becomes stays, you know, starts a company in their dorm and it becomes Facebook and they're multi zillionaires.

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Right.

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But I, the majority, the truth is the majority of, of businesses fail, especially the first one.

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Right.

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And you've been able.

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And, and, and so a lot of us, myself included, I've started a lot of businesses.

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Most of them have failed and I've been in and out of the w two world.

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Right.

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All my life, um, you know, I've gone back and forth between having my own business and having a W 2 job and, but you seem to, I, I, I really think that being able to get by and, and scrap along and at times it's, it's bountiful and other times it's not.

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I mean, that, that's a lot of the real success that I don't think a lot of people can, can say, you know.

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Could say that so kudos to you for surviving and thriving at times.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, I mean, you know, sometimes I'm 33 now, and there are plenty of times it's easy to compare yourself to people that are younger.

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They're doing it faster that found something.

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They really dedicated themselves to it and, um, At times it can be tough to like look at that and then not think like, man, what have I been doing all this time?

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But, uh, I then take inventory of the fact that like most of the time I don't really start work until 12 o'clock.

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I mean, I get to work out every morning.

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I, I've got the freedom to do what I want if I want to go golf or something like that.

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Most of my meetings are not so important that I couldn't reschedule them or do them while golfing or something like that.

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Um, and I just have a lot of freedom that People that most people would, you know, really like, um, and so, you know, there's, there's different ways to, to build your life around entrepreneurship.

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And mine hasn't turned into, you know, uh, again, being this multimillionaire by, by 35 or anything, at least not yet, but, um, I'm, I'm happy and I've got, I've got a life that I enjoy and I'm working towards the things that I want still.

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And, um, yeah, I don't, I don't really have many regrets.

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That's good.

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And, you know.

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The truth is you're, the fact that you're able to live your life with that kind of freedom is the definition of success for most of us, right?

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I mean, that's why we want to go and become zillionaires, right?

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It's so, we can have freedom.

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So, you figured out how to create that.

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With your light in your life.

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So yeah, very young age.

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So that that's amazing I mean, that's what I think we could all hope for right?

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Well, I I uh, you know a little bit my backstory there's just I I recognize, you know I have a high functioning special needs brother and i've recognized from a young age that he would probably need some Help for me financially in the future, and my mom had to liquidate her 401k in 2008 or 2009.

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My dad's never had retirement.

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And so like going to school to get a business degree and get a job was never really, I recognized really young that that was just not going to put me in a position to help my family and, and, and have it not affect my future family.

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And so that's really kind of what propelled a lot of this.

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Yeah.

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Well, kudos to you for having that foresight.

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I mean, I, I think that is something we can get into a philosophical conversation about our country, right?

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With that one, right?

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The, uh, just we all think that's the way to do it, right?

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Go, go to college, take on big debt, come out with big debt, and then go get a job that barely makes, you know, barely allows you to pay it back, and that's going to set you straight for life, but I don't know if that's really the case.

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You know, I think we're, we're starting to recognize that as a country too and, and ask those questions.

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And I know we're doing that with our kids.

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You know, my wife and I both have master's degrees and we took on a ton of debt to get them.

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And we're both questioning whether it was worth it for our kids and we're not pushing the traditional college route for them because of that.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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It makes a lot of sense to, to, you know, at least explore other alternatives.

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Yeah.

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So tell us, what was your story?

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So coming out of high school, you got into, uh, it was the music industry, right?

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Yeah, yeah, so I started booking concerts in my little farm town when I was 15.

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Um, I had just gotten a job and like, I couldn't, naturally as a dumb kid, I could not save the money.

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So I was like, what can I do with this?

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And uh, there was a, there was a band in town that would like rent this little Grange Hall.

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And put on shows and the first time they did was to raise money to get a touring van and then the next year they did it because they were breaking up and, uh, I was like, well, shit, I can't drive to shows.

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And now the one person that puts on shows in my town isn't going to anymore.

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I should just ask him if I can do it.

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And, um, I started doing it.

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I mean, I wasn't, I, my, my, all of my friends and my family were in bands, like my, my cousins and stuff, but I wasn't good enough to be in that band, but this was a way I could contribute and still be able to see live music in my town.

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So I just started doing it.

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And, um, through booking bands and that kind of thing, I met the owner of a small record Could label out of Lancaster, Pennsylvania that put out a bunch of metal bands that I liked and found out that like Lancaster's actually turned out a lot of prominent music.

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They have a pretty legendary music venue.

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It's actually shut down now, but, um, it was a great spot to actually, like, if you weren't in New York or Tennessee or L.

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A.

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It's hard to make music work, but Lancaster was this little insulated area where you could kind of make a living or learn a good bit.

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And, um, that just evolved into me running that record label, running another label for the nineties rock band alive for a short time.

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We had a nationally recognized music conference and festival that what.

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Like we partnered with the owner of warp tour because he said we had the best one in the country.

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Um, and so it kind of just turned to me learning a lot of things around sponsorship and logistics, but also education that conference was in festival.

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We might have three headliners, but we'd have 300 regional artists that were there to learn from industry.

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History professionals.

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And so I learned a lot about education and conference curation from that.

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And so after six or seven years of doing that full time, I kind of transitioned out of it and to just like putting these.

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Skills I had and, and like the, the options I knew were available to me at work.

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So like I got hired as a freelancer to run a blockchain conference.

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I was Ubering, I was door dashing.

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Um, I'd started a merchandising business with my boss at that time.

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Um, that led me into starting a photo booth rental business.

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Cause I learned I could run a small business outside of music.

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Um, all of these things, you know, these skills work together to kind of like give me a foundation and, um, You know, I, I, thinking back to what I was saying about how much.

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Time we spent on things where we could have been doing other things.

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I spent a lot of time in music, not making a whole lot of money, but I learned a lot of skills that I still, you know, implement in all of my businesses today.

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And so, um, it was definitely worthwhile.

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Yeah.

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With that, especially when, you know, it's a small scrappy business, you find yourself doing it all right.

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Um, and that can be good and bad.

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Uh, I, I'm wondering within that, what.

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What do you enjoy doing the most within a business?

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I found that with pretty much all of my careers, my job has been to, um, I use whatever resources I have to support other talented entrepreneurs and individuals.

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And so in music, I was supporting talented artists.

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With the podcasting space, I'm supporting talented entrepreneurs and investors and thought leaders.

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Um, that's what I really like a lot.

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I, you know, I like having the connections and knowing.

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Who to call when someone needs something, um, you know, me getting into doing sponsorships for the festival was rooted around wanting to know who to call when my artist needed, um, The brand like Mesa needed a Mesa cab, um, you know, and I couldn't always get people's stuff for free, but I liked knowing the guy and that kind of like fueled a lot of the things that like the connections I made, whether or not I could always capitalize on them was a different thing, but I just wanted to know.

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I knew the guy.

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Um, that's kind of like.

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That, that kind of like fueled me in the podcast space too.

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I don't, I don't even really care about knowing the host of big shows a lot of times.

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Same way I didn't really care about knowing the artist.

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I like knowing the artist's manager and their booking agent.

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I like knowing the gatekeeper and the booking person or the producer for the podcast.

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Not so much, like I don't care if I meet Lewis Howes.

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I want to know who's, who's the gatekeeper to getting someone on Lewis Howes.

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Um, and that's a weird, it's a weird roundabout way of saying like.

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That's what's driven a lot of the things I do, I don't even necessarily call that a skill, it's just like what has naturally happened and where things have driven me.

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Yeah, but it's a hundred percent a skill, right?

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I mean, let's dissect that a little bit.

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What, how, how do you go about finding a gatekeeper?

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Like Lewis Howes, you said.

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Well, uh, it's, it's Yeah, I mean, um, in the podcasting space, it started off with just a lot of trial and error, submitting someone, seeing if I got an automated return email, seeing if anybody got back to me.

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For a lot of podcasts, I got nothing.

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And then after I got nothing a few times, I started digging into it a little bit more.

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Um, sometimes I'm searching online, um, for, I mean, you can just do a Google search, producer school of greatness.

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And you might find someone actually put that on their LinkedIn, and maybe that person only has 124 connections on LinkedIn, so you know they're not active, but you now know their name.

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If you know the name of the business, you can kind of figure out what the root email is going to be.

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Um, you know, if you go on their website and they have gotten info or contact us, like there's a good chance that person's name combined with that root email domain.

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You're going to get in contact with them.

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And so it's not always the case, but like, that is just one thing I'll do when I'm really looking for how to get in contact with somebody.

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Um, that's sometimes the play.

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Uh, just as a joke, my, my friends who are really into, um, fantasy football and like, you know, my friends are big Eagles fans cause we're in Pennsylvania, but they get mad at the guy that drafts every single year.

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And I jokingly went and found.

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The, the guy that does the drafting, I went and found his email so my friends could, could write him their opinions, um, and it, you know, just by, by trial and error.

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The guy who drafts for the Eagles?

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Yeah.

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Get out of here.

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I just went and found, I, I just like, I, I figured out there were six options it could be based on like the name, dot, dot, last name, and I just, I emailed all of them until I figured out, until I got one that wasn't a return email.

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I'm like, this is it.

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Wow.

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So now every time they're pissed off, they, they shoot him an email.

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He never responds, but of course it's, uh.

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It's, you know, it's, it's totally doable and you can kind of do the same thing to get in touch with anybody.

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That's hilarious.

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No, that, that actually is a really valuable skill, right?

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Anybody in sales, um, sponsorship, I mean, it's all sales, right?

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They understand the value of getting connected to the right, to the gatekeeper.

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I mean, that, that's just absolute gold, right?

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And, uh, so that's an insanely valuable skill.

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What about, how do you connect with the people?

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So we know how to find them now.

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How do you connect with them?

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How do you get them to pay attention?

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Yeah, I don't waste it, um, on something that I really think is Going to get them to respond.

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Um, and, and there's, there's like levels to that.

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You know, for example, I represent Brandon Novak from Jackass and Viva La Bam, getting him booked on podcasts to talk about his recovery.

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Now, not every show host is going to say yes to having him on.

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Maybe they don't like his brand.

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Maybe they don't find it relevant, but they see he was like a C level celebrity.

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He's got a good social media reach.

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And I can open up a lot of doors by chasing after the nose.

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With that, um, maybe they said no to him, but once I got their contact, I know I've got the right person.

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Maybe I can then ask them who like, okay, if Brandon's not a fit, what is a fit?

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And it might be two years before I have somebody for them again.

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Um, uh, I, I kind of learned this a little bit from, um, you know, the music space.

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Like it's very common when you're in the music industry, you get solicited to concerts.

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You can very quickly, uh, you know, run out.

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You're welcome.

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If you're like, well, can I get four guest list spots?

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It's like, no, you get yourself in a friend.

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You don't ask for every person, you know, to get into a concert for free.

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And you don't ask for people that, you know, we're going to go have 10 beers at the bar.

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It might become a problem.

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You don't ask for people that are going to fanboy or fangirl around the artist.

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Um, it's one thing to say, Hey, I really appreciate your work.

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It's great to meet you.

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That type of thing.

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It's another to try and talk the rear off.

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And I, knowing how that worked in the music industry, I don't abuse.

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The relationships I have with these people once I make them.

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There are even times where I ask for introductions and I explain to the person I'm asking an introduction for.

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I'm like, listen, I represent 20 people.

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My goal here is not to submit all 20 of them to this show.

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I've got one person I think really makes sense.

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They might not, they might ultimately decline, but they'll at least understand I was right for asking.

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For Novak.

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Most people would understand why I submitted him, even if they ultimately decide.

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It's a no.

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Oh, and so I kind of, you know, I kind of gauged that situation before I really dive into submitting a guest to like a really big show, cause you might only got, you only have one shot and if you submit the wrong person, they won't take you seriously.

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But if you submit someone that they at least understand why you did it and that you, you know, you do represent good people, they're welcome, you know, they welcome to hear your emails again in the future.

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Yeah, wow, that's that there's a lot there.

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That's really valuable.

00:17:19.358 --> 00:17:37.269
I mean, it sounds like first of all, you're really thinking ahead You you you're thinking with providing real service to the people really on both sides, right making sure it's a good fit You're not just throwing stuff out there Sorry, I was muted.

00:17:37.858 --> 00:17:56.673
I've always been a win win type of person which is probably part of the reason You know, I didn't get accepted as a booking agent for a big talent agency when I was unemployed I tried and in that game, you've got to be a shark and only care about your client and not care about anybody else and I'm not that way.

00:17:56.673 --> 00:18:05.243
So I'm glad I didn't get the job, you know, even for a host that ultimately tells me I don't work with booking agents, which there are a few of those Mike.

00:18:05.983 --> 00:18:06.973
Okay, I'm sorry.

00:18:06.973 --> 00:18:07.584
I bothered you.

00:18:07.584 --> 00:18:20.723
I am sorry that you know, I sent you an email and uh, you're not happy about it Um, I i'm I very much carry that that weight with me and I I don't want to be a bother to anybody And I only want to provide value to both sides.

00:18:21.403 --> 00:18:21.763
Yeah.

00:18:22.943 --> 00:18:36.794
Wow, but they uh, The good ones probably appreciate that you you really are providing value the most do Talk about transitioned from music to podcasting, right?

00:18:36.824 --> 00:18:39.304
How did that happen and why?

00:18:41.544 --> 00:18:51.453
Yeah, so, um, March 9th, 2020, my boss passed away of COVID before we knew it was COVID, and then three days later, the whole industry got shut down.

00:18:51.659 --> 00:19:05.348
And, um, I came from like a decade of always being busy, like I always was juggling three income streams at a minimum, whether that was like a job and door dashing and photo booth or, you know, all that stuff.

00:19:05.348 --> 00:19:12.429
I and then to come and have to sit at home all day for months was tough.

00:19:12.429 --> 00:19:13.868
And so I started thinking about.

00:19:14.673 --> 00:19:22.253
Um, not just what when does music come back, but do I even have a job because I wasn't sure Yeah, and outlier audio is actually a domain.

00:19:22.253 --> 00:19:26.584
I purchased like a decade ago to Put out audio books.

00:19:26.683 --> 00:19:40.364
I was I was always around young entrepreneurs and They uh, we were all listening to jim rohan and bob proctor and west brown and stuff like that I'm, like well, all these guys are old But you guys are crushing it right now.

00:19:40.614 --> 00:19:43.144
And it's so easy to put out digital content.

00:19:43.804 --> 00:19:48.443
I should start a record label for you guys to put out audios before you're 50.

00:19:48.874 --> 00:19:51.614
And, um, it ultimately just didn't get off the ground.

00:19:51.923 --> 00:19:55.084
Um, but I had, I kept this domain because I liked it.

00:19:55.094 --> 00:19:58.824
And so I was thinking about putting out audio books while people were stuck at home.

00:19:59.233 --> 00:20:02.034
And then someone was like, no, you should, you should get entrepreneurs.

00:20:02.054 --> 00:20:04.084
You should be a manager for, for entrepreneurs.

00:20:04.909 --> 00:20:13.949
And I was like, eh, that sounds like an assistant or like a connector and a connector has to be in New York or, you know, some, some Metro city.

00:20:14.348 --> 00:20:15.959
Um, I'm out in a little farm town.

00:20:16.159 --> 00:20:21.878
And, um, he's like, no, you could, uh, you could, you could book people on podcast.

00:20:22.648 --> 00:20:24.118
And I was like, really?

00:20:24.479 --> 00:20:26.078
He's like, yeah, they would totally pay for that.

00:20:26.078 --> 00:20:27.628
I'm like, okay.

00:20:28.058 --> 00:20:35.689
I, and I'm not, I'm not like the type of guy that just has an idea and then is arrogant enough to think I can pull it off.

00:20:35.749 --> 00:20:37.308
I always have to ruminate on things.

00:20:37.308 --> 00:20:38.278
I have to think about it a little bit.

00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.919
This was the one time in my life I was like, oh, I can totally do that.

00:20:42.338 --> 00:20:51.009
If someone pays me a grand right now to go get them six podcast interviews, I will send as many emails as I need.

00:20:51.868 --> 00:20:59.838
To fulfill that because I know that maybe I find out that most people don't work with podcast booking agents or this isn't a thing.

00:21:00.118 --> 00:21:03.278
I know if I email 200 podcasts, I can get six to say yes.

00:21:03.528 --> 00:21:04.538
So I was like, I'll just try it.

00:21:04.669 --> 00:21:12.679
And I sat down that day and cataloged like 300 business entrepreneurship and investing podcasts and just did that for like a month.

00:21:13.088 --> 00:21:31.554
And, um, I had, uh, I had my first few clients in like probably a couple weeks after connecting with someone that sold like PR services and they would sell like those Yahoo Finance press releases and this was an upsell for them and so they sold it to a financial planner and a guy that does, um.

00:21:32.489 --> 00:21:47.078
PEOs, which are, um, you know, you take a 10, you take 10, 10 person in, you know, businesses and put them together and then go buy an insurance plan, you know, get, get insurance services for them at the bulk rate.

00:21:47.388 --> 00:21:49.648
Um, and so he kind of like puts them together.

00:21:49.648 --> 00:21:51.578
I was like, I don't know anything about this.

00:21:52.179 --> 00:21:52.919
But I'm going to try it.

00:21:52.919 --> 00:21:53.608
I've never heard of it.

00:21:53.608 --> 00:21:54.469
Sounds interesting.

00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:55.749
And I think I can make this work.

00:21:55.759 --> 00:22:03.709
And so those were the first two I, I started with and, and it just, um, it, it snowballed and there's, there weren't many people doing what I did.

00:22:03.709 --> 00:22:05.159
So it kind of worked out.

00:22:05.689 --> 00:22:06.048
Yeah.

00:22:06.169 --> 00:22:08.699
Is it, you got quite a bit more competition now though.

00:22:11.019 --> 00:22:11.398
Yeah.

00:22:11.398 --> 00:22:21.358
There's, there's a lot of competition in terms of not just agencies, but also people figuring out they could use VAs, um, and that type of thing.

00:22:21.378 --> 00:22:23.318
And I mean, let me be clear.

00:22:23.429 --> 00:22:25.028
I won.

00:22:25.933 --> 00:22:30.403
Even though there's a lot more competition now, it's still not saturated in my opinion.

00:22:30.854 --> 00:22:36.503
Um, what's saturated is everybody reaching out to the same top 100 shows.

00:22:36.753 --> 00:22:40.673
That's where the saturation lies, but there's hundreds of thousands of active podcasts.

00:22:41.064 --> 00:22:51.683
Um, and the, the, all of the agencies kind of, it seems come from a little bit of a different background.

00:22:51.693 --> 00:22:53.594
So mine was talent representation.

00:22:53.933 --> 00:22:57.314
There's some people that are clearly, um, marketers.

00:22:57.729 --> 00:23:00.128
That are looking at podcasts as a marketing vehicle.

00:23:00.298 --> 00:23:02.769
There are other people that seem to be, they shifted from PR.

00:23:03.128 --> 00:23:07.749
And while the job is always the same, we kind of have a different lens on it.

00:23:07.949 --> 00:23:16.568
And so, um, I, I don't entirely understand how it plays into it, but I just know that, like, I think I represent cooler people than a lot of them.

00:23:18.648 --> 00:23:24.638
I like they represent run of the mill business coaches and I'm not interested in that.

00:23:24.769 --> 00:23:26.328
So I don't go after them, but they do.

00:23:26.338 --> 00:23:29.759
Cause they're like, I just want someone to put me on retainer for 20 grand or something like that.

00:23:30.058 --> 00:23:31.729
And I don't, I don't do that type of thing.

00:23:32.189 --> 00:23:42.429
Um, but yeah, it kind of, um, And, and, you know, my, me understanding why this was valuable was from listening to, like, Bigger Pockets.

00:23:42.709 --> 00:23:55.229
I listened to hundreds of episodes, and I just thought all of these guys were, and, and, you know, these guys and gals were, were Mark Cuban, Richard Branson sized celebrities.

00:23:56.034 --> 00:23:58.144
I, they had to be, they were on a podcast.

00:23:59.564 --> 00:24:03.733
I would then look them up on Instagram and see they had 300 Instagram followers.

00:24:03.804 --> 00:24:06.933
And I found out that they were really just Joe Schmoe investor.

00:24:07.134 --> 00:24:13.834
And that this was a new medium where you didn't have to be a celebrity to be able to put value out to the world.

00:24:14.034 --> 00:24:17.064
And they were willing to do it for free, which I thought was so cool.

00:24:17.064 --> 00:24:25.943
That played into the, the education curation that came from me doing that music conference was we brought industry professionals into Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

00:24:26.439 --> 00:24:28.749
Amish country to give information away.

00:24:29.009 --> 00:24:33.538
And so I loved that about podcasts is that you could learn about any subject for free.

00:24:33.999 --> 00:24:42.398
And one, I think I really learned from all these people talking about their success and scaling is that they talked about, they were spread too thin.

00:24:42.449 --> 00:24:45.939
They realized the things they were good at doing and they focus on those things.

00:24:46.743 --> 00:24:54.824
And I said, okay, well, let me go use that logic against them and convince them that they shouldn't be spending their time doing outreach to podcasts themselves.

00:24:54.824 --> 00:24:55.923
They should hire me to do it.

00:24:56.794 --> 00:25:03.003
And, uh, and yeah, it, it turned out that they found that it to be a good use of, of money.

00:25:03.003 --> 00:25:05.554
It's to have someone else do their podcast outreach.

00:25:05.953 --> 00:25:06.394
Yeah.

00:25:06.733 --> 00:25:07.153
Wow.

00:25:07.503 --> 00:25:07.723
Yeah.

00:25:07.723 --> 00:25:14.773
And I know some of the folks you've had from BiggerPockets that you represent and, and We're fortunate that we're gonna have some of them on our show.

00:25:14.773 --> 00:25:15.993
And so thank you for that.

00:25:16.713 --> 00:25:20.403
Yeah, of course, but uh, yeah, they're pretty spectacular people.

00:25:21.584 --> 00:25:25.723
I think that's also Why I've been so attracted to podcasts, right?

00:25:25.923 --> 00:25:28.354
And the world is starting to wake up to it, right?

00:25:28.374 --> 00:25:44.824
It is something that is giving us access to real time information that is really valuable from people out there who are really doing it and and You can take it with you anywhere And learn anything.

00:25:44.824 --> 00:25:54.953
It's it's It's just a remarkable, and it's indie driven, like you said, these are all just normal people, which I always think is the beginning of a movement, and I see it shifting now.

00:25:55.394 --> 00:26:01.334
You know, you and I both went to the podcast Movement Conference, and I went last year too, oh you did too actually, right?

00:26:01.354 --> 00:26:05.064
And, and I saw a big difference from last year to this year, right?

00:26:05.064 --> 00:26:09.844
Where last year there was a lot of indie people, uh, and this year it was much more corporate.

00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:11.538
run, right?

00:26:11.558 --> 00:26:13.578
Like big companies that were there.

00:26:13.588 --> 00:26:25.913
Well, I, I actually said that to someone, um, I, I, I was, I was asking around the conference and I, I said like, Um, this expo hall feels way more empty than in the past.

00:26:25.953 --> 00:26:26.223
Yeah.

00:26:26.233 --> 00:26:36.503
However, when I go to the restaurants, they're completely packed with people wearing our badges and they're wearing suits and ties and dresses.

00:26:36.534 --> 00:26:37.223
They're professional.

00:26:37.223 --> 00:26:39.064
Very, they're dressed very formally.

00:26:39.314 --> 00:26:40.864
I said, who are these people?

00:26:41.344 --> 00:26:44.203
And someone said, they're, they're like networks.

00:26:44.263 --> 00:26:45.403
They're ad agencies.

00:26:45.403 --> 00:26:47.544
They are, they are getting deals done right now.

00:26:47.864 --> 00:26:53.233
Um, On the industry side of things, not on the creator side of things.

00:26:53.463 --> 00:26:59.854
And it's all, I mean, kind of what you were saying, uh, um, about there being less DIYers.

00:26:59.884 --> 00:27:04.544
It's also because the industry is kind of coming into its own and people are realizing there's money in it.

00:27:04.973 --> 00:27:11.493
And the DIYers are not paying to go to four star hotels for conferences.

00:27:11.614 --> 00:27:16.953
It's not worth it to them, but to the people that, that run it like a business.

00:27:17.314 --> 00:27:19.903
You know, it's, it's, it's a worthwhile endeavor for them.

00:27:20.314 --> 00:27:24.173
Um, so there it's, it's still in a little bit of a weird space.

00:27:24.173 --> 00:27:42.054
I mean, There are industry standards for what ads should be, but at the same time, if you have a niche product in your industry, you can charge what you think is more appropriate because the advertiser knows that they're getting in front of their niche demographic.

00:27:42.253 --> 00:27:49.949
It's just this weird, this really weird combination of entrepreneurship and creativity and pop culture that like, I feel it.

00:27:50.409 --> 00:28:06.959
Hasn't really had a platform before where it could just grow organically because it's always been radio or movies or TV where there was kind of a set rate or a set path forward.

00:28:08.568 --> 00:28:13.999
And, and, you know, you're kind of saying what you were saying about the liking the podcast platform.

00:28:14.009 --> 00:28:27.249
I always liken it to, I like that it's, you can get the education from audio books with the on demand functionality of like Spotify with the long form conversation or, um, entertainment of Howard Stern.

00:28:27.929 --> 00:28:28.608
And so.

00:28:29.308 --> 00:28:36.419
It kind of puts all of these together and it's, it's growing in multiple directions depending on the industry you're in.

00:28:37.648 --> 00:28:37.898
Yeah.

00:28:37.898 --> 00:28:40.598
Do you think, I mean, that's definitely true.

00:28:40.598 --> 00:28:47.929
And I think because the barrier to entry is pretty low, it'll still always allow for Indies to get in, right?

00:28:47.999 --> 00:28:54.068
As long as it stays that way, however, um, it's getting harder and harder, I think, to stand out.

00:28:54.588 --> 00:28:54.979
Right?

00:28:54.989 --> 00:29:01.949
Because now we're competing with big companies that have big budgets and extreme expertise, right?

00:29:01.989 --> 00:29:13.598
And they are, um, so, so to be able to go from as an indie to go and stand out and, and, and be discovered is getting harder and harder, I think, right?

00:29:14.919 --> 00:29:17.199
Yes, but it also depends on your niche.

00:29:17.439 --> 00:29:24.054
I mean, if you are someone That is in the um, let's just say hospice.

00:29:24.284 --> 00:29:40.394
You're, you're a professional in hospice and you want to start a podcast that is talking about, I don't know, I imagine that's, that can be something that has a big burnout rate because you're constantly around death and, and pain.

00:29:40.983 --> 00:29:45.844
Um, maybe you interview people that share their stories or maybe you interview.

00:29:46.989 --> 00:29:50.449
People in hospice, they, they want to get their story out there.

00:29:50.769 --> 00:30:03.409
That is something that is so niche that there's a lot of people that work in that space, but it's still, you know, I don't imagine people that work in hospice can take that conversation to dinner with them every night.

00:30:03.578 --> 00:30:06.078
Not everybody wants to hear about the person that's dying.

00:30:06.499 --> 00:30:31.719
So if you can create a community around people that are either learning how to deal with the stresses of Hospice care or can create some entertainment value or, um, you know, some enjoyment in the process by talking to people that are kind of giving their last, uh, story, maybe their first interview in their entire life, but their last story before they move on.

00:30:32.479 --> 00:30:39.159
There are people that will gravitate towards something like that, and the biggest podcast in that space.

00:30:39.824 --> 00:30:48.773
Could just have like 100, 000 downloads a month and 100, 000 is a lot, but also compared to everything else.

00:30:48.794 --> 00:30:51.943
It's not that it's not a huge audience.

00:30:51.943 --> 00:30:57.614
I mean, 100, 000 a month at one a week means you're getting in front of 20, 000, 25, 000 people a week.

00:30:58.223 --> 00:31:01.433
I mean, that is in the grand scheme of things.

00:31:01.433 --> 00:31:03.794
That's not that hard to do.

00:31:04.778 --> 00:31:08.108
You just have to be consistent with it, know your audience and build it correctly.

00:31:08.118 --> 00:31:08.949
And it takes time.

00:31:09.138 --> 00:31:10.138
You can't do it overnight.

00:31:11.209 --> 00:31:12.548
Um, you can't do it over a month.

00:31:12.548 --> 00:31:33.019
You probably can't do it over a year, but if you've been doing it, if you stick with this podcast where you are giving people the ability to tell their, their dying story and you stick with that for like five years without trying to build a business, you can easily have the biggest podcasts in that space.

00:31:33.374 --> 00:31:35.723
Yeah, yeah, it's a good point.

00:31:35.723 --> 00:31:40.443
It goes back to the old adage about the riches are in the niches, right?

00:31:40.663 --> 00:31:42.084
And I think the more you niche down.

00:31:42.084 --> 00:31:42.253
Yeah.

00:31:42.284 --> 00:31:59.288
Yeah, but also I know some of our most successful Podcasters out there now, you know, I'm thinking like Lex Friedman I heard an interview with him a while back where He was just out there interviewing people for a while and it took like about four years I think it was one, an interview with him and Andrew Huberman, they both said that.

00:31:59.298 --> 00:32:02.909
It took about four years before they really got discovered, right?

00:32:02.909 --> 00:32:08.019
And all of a sudden, like, everybody knows who they are, they have massive, uh, podcasts.

00:32:08.038 --> 00:32:15.818
But you hear that over and over, and every conference we go to and, and everything, they all just say, yeah, you just gotta do it consistently.

00:32:16.403 --> 00:32:17.814
You know, and you got to love it.

00:32:17.824 --> 00:32:18.443
You got to love it.

00:32:18.503 --> 00:32:20.794
I mean, you can't fake the authenticity, right?

00:32:21.453 --> 00:32:25.374
And they're, they're also, they have their niches, but they're also niche people.

00:32:25.384 --> 00:32:29.923
Like I've seen people compare, like Lex Friedman is the Joe Rogan for smart people.

00:32:29.993 --> 00:32:37.038
Like he, you know, they might interview a lot of the same people, but X Freeman is a much more thoughtful.

00:32:37.398 --> 00:32:40.989
Um, and, and quite, I mean, he's like, he's a, he's a scientist.

00:32:40.989 --> 00:32:43.209
I mean, he, he looks at things from a different lens.

00:32:43.209 --> 00:32:54.689
There's, there is a niche in who you are, um, you know, as an individual that can kind of play into, like, you might go into a saturated space, but your lens gives you some type of edge.

00:32:54.699 --> 00:32:57.818
And that, that kind of comes back to what I was saying about the different podcast booking.

00:32:57.868 --> 00:33:03.288
I don't know what lens I, I know that my lens is different in that I was a talent representative.

00:33:03.479 --> 00:33:04.808
That's how I look at my clients.

00:33:05.009 --> 00:33:12.229
I don't know how that carries over into the service I provide, but I know that I do see opportunities where other people don't.

00:33:13.219 --> 00:33:15.929
And um, that's not to bring back to my business or anything.

00:33:15.929 --> 00:33:18.818
It's just that, that is an example of it.

00:33:19.628 --> 00:33:19.808
Yeah.

00:33:19.808 --> 00:33:28.159
Well, I think, along those lines, I think part of what makes you stand at your niche is really you are in service.

00:33:28.159 --> 00:33:33.009
Like you can tell right from the beginning when you said you, you, you know, you're not the talent.

00:33:33.659 --> 00:33:37.528
You are the one who wants to help the town and put them out there that kind of thing, right?

00:33:37.548 --> 00:33:45.239
Whether it's musicians or podcasters you it's the same thing and you you I don't think you it's clear You're also very humble.

00:33:45.239 --> 00:33:46.558
You don't have an ego around it.

00:33:46.558 --> 00:33:56.229
You don't care to be that Tell you you probably don't care if nobody knows who Spencer Carpenter is you want to be known, you know Unless I need I need to be known by the right people and that's all I care about.

00:33:56.288 --> 00:33:56.749
That's right.

00:33:56.909 --> 00:34:02.443
That's right And that's great because and you only want to do it to be able to help your people.

00:34:02.794 --> 00:34:09.838
I'm sure that's good you have a very big self awareness, which is It's enviable.

00:34:10.268 --> 00:34:10.679
For sure.

00:34:11.588 --> 00:34:11.829
Cool.

00:34:11.838 --> 00:34:12.059
Thank you.

00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.659
Where, where else can you see, um, podcasts going?

00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:16.338
I'm curious.

00:34:16.338 --> 00:34:18.489
I mean, you, you've been at it for a little while now.

00:34:18.489 --> 00:34:19.869
I know you study the space.

00:34:19.898 --> 00:34:27.829
We're on the heels of the election, which I think a lot of people say was the podcast election, you know, what, uh, What do you see?

00:34:27.829 --> 00:34:28.168
Yeah.

00:34:28.938 --> 00:34:38.679
Um, you know, a few years ago, Gary Vee was talking about how video and video entertainment is going to start taking over living rooms more.

00:34:38.789 --> 00:34:39.898
And I thought that was silly.

00:34:39.898 --> 00:34:45.548
I was like, you know, if you're going to sit down your couch, it's to watch a TV show, not to watch a video podcast.

00:34:45.579 --> 00:34:46.778
But that's definitely changing.

00:34:47.188 --> 00:34:52.059
Um, an example of that was I actually, I was listening to a guy on Lex's podcast.

00:34:52.059 --> 00:34:55.653
His name was Matthew Cox and he had a, uh, Six hour interview.

00:34:55.713 --> 00:34:56.474
Maybe it was five.

00:34:56.923 --> 00:35:04.244
Um, he was number one on the marshals list for like, uh, mortgage fraud and he was on the run for like three years.

00:35:04.273 --> 00:35:10.793
And so, man, I, I liked podcasts because I could go and do chores and listen to podcasts.

00:35:10.804 --> 00:35:12.963
But once I was done.

00:35:13.693 --> 00:35:16.273
I was like, well, I want to keep listening to the story.

00:35:16.313 --> 00:35:19.753
So I went and sat down on my couch and pulled it up on YouTube and watch the rest of it.

00:35:19.753 --> 00:35:23.233
And that was my first experience really diving into that.

00:35:23.264 --> 00:35:24.914
And it made total sense after that.

00:35:25.273 --> 00:35:33.134
Um, so I do think that the video podcast, the in person high quality studio type stuff is going to continue to grow.

00:35:33.443 --> 00:35:35.713
It's going to continue to grow, especially among.

00:35:36.528 --> 00:35:43.389
Um, thought leaders and comedians and pop culture people and influencers and stuff like that.

00:35:43.389 --> 00:35:47.188
Because right now you and I can have a conversation that isn't related.

00:35:47.338 --> 00:35:55.449
It doesn't matter about timing, but like comedians, if you're going to tell a joke, you can't have the delay over the airwaves of zoom.

00:35:55.688 --> 00:36:00.309
You know, I think it's really important for some things to be in person.

00:36:00.548 --> 00:36:05.048
Um, you know, my Brendan Novak, who, who, his story, he's like.

00:36:05.829 --> 00:36:07.159
He's got funny stories.

00:36:07.228 --> 00:36:09.648
He's very open about everything that's happened in his past.

00:36:09.648 --> 00:36:14.179
But like he, he really wants to connect with people in a deeper level.

00:36:14.188 --> 00:36:16.108
So he doesn't do virtual podcast.

00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:17.318
He only does in person.

00:36:17.789 --> 00:36:21.579
Um, and so there, there's a segment that's going to continue to grow like that.

00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.219
I think there are plenty of people that are going to find their way of continuing to do it virtual.

00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:29.789
Um, you brought up the, the podcast, the podcast selection.

00:36:30.128 --> 00:36:33.349
Um, the weird thing about that was, yeah.

00:36:34.974 --> 00:36:37.014
There's very little journalism around it.

00:36:37.864 --> 00:37:03.123
Um, there were a lot of people that never thought they'd be able to interview a president or presidential candidate or vice president or former president that just got this layup because they've built this pop culture presence and because of that, in my opinion, all of them bow down and they asked softball questions.

00:37:03.818 --> 00:37:06.418
They didn't press them on anything.

00:37:07.188 --> 00:37:09.739
Um, and and let me be clear.

00:37:09.759 --> 00:37:35.978
This is not necessarily my analysis This is me listening to political people talk about the podcast because I didn't listen to all the interviews I listened to some but it made a lot of sense when they said it And there's probably some placating to like, well, I hope that whoever wins, you know, I'm interviewing Trump or come I hope that they'll come back again in a year or in two years or during the re election and And so because of that, I can't press them too hard.

00:37:36.489 --> 00:37:52.398
And so what seemed like it was going to be a lot of independent, free thinking conversations turned into approved questions with scripted answers, with the timelines of like an hour, like anybody can talk scripted talk for an hour.

00:37:52.958 --> 00:38:03.309
Um, I do believe that the thing, you know, the, the, the platform that in the, the format that like Joe Rogan uses is important because you can bullshit for an hour.

00:38:03.568 --> 00:38:06.389
You can't skillfully bullshit for three.

00:38:07.048 --> 00:38:08.909
Um, and you're going to slip up.

00:38:09.534 --> 00:38:10.793
Or you're going to get pressed on something.

00:38:10.793 --> 00:38:11.893
You're going to get too comfortable.

00:38:11.893 --> 00:38:39.483
And, um, so I'm, I'm hoping next time around there'll be some people that are a little more willing to push hard with their interview questions and push back on the things that we all wish news anchors would do the things that we wish to politician would say or do, um, that we never really got that like, yeah, I just think there's room for, for real free thinking improvement, um, next time around.

00:38:43.842 --> 00:38:56.402
Yeah, Spencer, I think you're so right on that, you know, and there's been like so much, I've really been studying that as well, uh, and reading everything that people say about how they were with podcasts because there's been so much controversy around it, obviously.

00:38:56.873 --> 00:39:00.682
Um, and I, I know I listened to both sides.

00:39:00.682 --> 00:39:01.643
I had never heard of the.

00:39:01.827 --> 00:39:04.438
Call me daddy podcast until Kamala was on.

00:39:04.438 --> 00:39:05.737
I'm like, oh, I got to listen to that.

00:39:05.768 --> 00:39:12.358
And I did, you know, and I think it created, it definitely elevated some of them, but yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:39:12.358 --> 00:39:15.597
That was an example of the softball, you know, a hundred percent.

00:39:15.608 --> 00:39:16.427
You're absolutely right.

00:39:16.438 --> 00:39:23.057
And I think back, I think the first time I ever heard a podcast with a presidential candidate was Obama was on the, what's his name?

00:39:23.057 --> 00:39:23.717
Dan Carlin.

00:39:23.717 --> 00:39:24.088
Was it?

00:39:24.438 --> 00:39:47.458
I think years ago, many years ago, and that was a long form too, and I remember there was a big deal because he, they, the Secret Service like surrounded the guy's house and they did it in his basement and all this stuff, right, and um, and it was long form, and I don't know if it was teleprompter or not, but I remember listening to it and you know, thinking, wow, this guy's amazing, you know, and then you heard, I heard, Trump on Rogan too.

00:39:47.788 --> 00:39:48.577
And same thing.

00:39:48.577 --> 00:39:51.057
I mean, he clearly has said it wasn't teleprompted.

00:39:51.097 --> 00:39:52.907
You could see it on the screen and all that.

00:39:52.947 --> 00:39:54.157
And he's very authentic.

00:39:54.648 --> 00:39:57.367
And, and I think it goes back to what you're saying.

00:39:57.637 --> 00:40:03.958
Um, I think in the future, people are going to, are going to crave that authenticity.

00:40:04.038 --> 00:40:07.668
And if you're going to be teleprompted, it's not going to allow for that.

00:40:07.737 --> 00:40:08.068
Right.

00:40:08.702 --> 00:40:25.143
And so, well, but I mean, using the example of Rogan again, he had both Fetterman and Trump and, you know, around the 2020 election, um, you know, stealing of the election, he asked Trump multiple times, what evidence do you have?

00:40:25.913 --> 00:40:28.333
And Trump would say, I've got papers.

00:40:28.333 --> 00:40:29.353
I'll bring him back.

00:40:29.583 --> 00:40:36.123
And Joey said this on interviews past, you know, since then he's been like, I asked him and he just kept saying he had papers.

00:40:36.382 --> 00:40:36.983
Same thing happened.

00:40:37.123 --> 00:40:39.452
The worst example of this though was Fetterman.

00:40:39.672 --> 00:40:53.682
And, um, I mean, Fetterman is dealing with, you know, he had a stroke and there might've been some complications with the communication that was happening there, but he asked him like six times, what would you do?

00:40:54.012 --> 00:41:01.202
To address like, uh, I think like the immigration problem and, um, it was at least six times.

00:41:01.202 --> 00:41:08.612
It might have been seven or eight and Federman kept talking in circles and I, I mean, I'm, I liked the idea of Federman.

00:41:08.612 --> 00:41:10.432
I actually lean more left than anything.

00:41:10.822 --> 00:41:24.157
Um, and eventually he just let it go, but I wish for both people, um, and, and I think This thing when it comes to any type of anchor, I wish more journalists would do this.

00:41:24.978 --> 00:41:34.907
If you ask the same question three times and they give you a roundabout answer, I wish someone just had the, um, The balls.

00:41:34.967 --> 00:41:36.507
Just really willing.

00:41:36.717 --> 00:41:37.088
Yeah.

00:41:37.088 --> 00:41:39.387
I was trying to think of something better to say that wasn't gendered.

00:41:39.387 --> 00:41:40.057
That's all right.

00:41:40.407 --> 00:41:41.088
This is raw.

00:41:41.588 --> 00:41:42.277
Not the pride.

00:41:42.987 --> 00:41:46.338
Something to say, like, you didn't answer my question.

00:41:47.652 --> 00:41:48.972
I'm going to ask you one more time.

00:41:49.463 --> 00:41:50.253
Please answer it.

00:41:50.373 --> 00:41:52.443
Or I'm giving you a platform.

00:41:53.952 --> 00:41:56.742
Please respect that and answer my question.

00:41:56.932 --> 00:42:01.222
I mean, get, get, get direct with them and call them on their bullshit.

00:42:01.402 --> 00:42:03.782
And again, that might mean they never come back.

00:42:04.052 --> 00:42:07.733
But if somebody who was willing to burn every bridge to get answers.

00:42:08.213 --> 00:42:13.992
And have a real conversation in this day and age that would be respected more than anything.

00:42:14.253 --> 00:42:18.463
And you would capture, you would capture an audience on both sides.

00:42:18.842 --> 00:42:28.262
And, um, even if they didn't like what I think we're definitely all diving into what at least feels more authentic, even if we don't agree with it.

00:42:28.882 --> 00:42:35.663
And I mean, I think I actually think Theo Vaughn did a really good job with this, you know, cause he didn't let, he had Trump on, but he kind of talked about.

00:42:35.853 --> 00:42:40.382
Trump not drinking and like, you know, him experiencing family with addiction.

00:42:40.393 --> 00:42:42.313
They didn't dive into the politics as much.

00:42:42.313 --> 00:42:43.992
He allowed people to get to know him more.

00:42:44.382 --> 00:42:46.452
And he also had Bernie Sanders on.

00:42:46.463 --> 00:42:56.702
And when Bernie, who everyone says is a socialist in disguise, when Bernie just says, I get, he gives a rundown.

00:42:56.722 --> 00:43:03.163
He's like, I just think that like Medicare, like health companies need to be transparent with pricing and they need to give better options.

00:43:03.552 --> 00:43:05.882
It was like, that sounds pretty reasonable to me.

00:43:06.208 --> 00:43:19.478
And I feel like if more, if more conversations like that happened, we would realize both sides are just working towards a path that they think is the right path.

00:43:20.338 --> 00:43:23.057
It's both of them are looking for there to be a win.

00:43:23.807 --> 00:43:26.378
Um, both want the country to do better.

00:43:26.478 --> 00:43:27.768
Both want people to do better.

00:43:27.768 --> 00:43:30.027
We just disagree on how to accomplish it.

00:43:30.318 --> 00:43:30.688
That's right.

00:43:30.807 --> 00:43:39.148
And, and, um, I think when you can acknowledge that, it's easier to at least try and see their side and then try to come to some compromise.

00:43:39.148 --> 00:43:42.197
It's just in politics today, nobody's looking to compromise.

00:43:42.327 --> 00:43:43.237
That's been given up.

00:43:43.577 --> 00:43:52.518
Um, so anyway, I just think the podcasting space, there's real opportunity for people are willing to push back and try and show.

00:43:53.202 --> 00:43:54.382
Some more nuance.

00:43:54.413 --> 00:44:00.702
I mean, podcasts inherently provide nuance, but push back and get, um, straight answers out of people.

00:44:00.983 --> 00:44:07.983
And I'm hoping that that form of journalism takes, you know, is, is taken more seriously next time around.

00:44:09.418 --> 00:44:22.257
Yeah, I mean, I, I think, um, podcasts are, are, are only, you know, I think we're only in the second or third inning and it will continue to be a more powerful force, uh, for future elections, right?

00:44:22.257 --> 00:44:26.547
And it's because of people just, I think we're in a world where everything is made up.

00:44:26.753 --> 00:44:34.193
And people really crave real authentic authenticity and connection and, you know, all of that.

00:44:34.503 --> 00:44:36.452
We're now getting it through podcasts, right?

00:44:36.853 --> 00:44:43.472
Um, so some of the podcast I've been listening to for 10 years, I just feel like these are my, these are my friends.

00:44:43.472 --> 00:44:50.773
You know, I had, uh, Trevor Spencer from the Marathon Training Academy podcast, who I've been listening to since they started maybe 12 years ago.

00:44:50.773 --> 00:45:02.733
And I, I felt like I was talking to, you know, like Like you described earlier with the bigger pockets guys this guy I I just thought it was for me it was a big get like Amazing.

00:45:02.753 --> 00:45:06.023
And, um, and I've, I felt like I've known this guy.

00:45:06.032 --> 00:45:09.882
I've known everything he's done, what his wife has done, all this stuff, and it was great.

00:45:09.893 --> 00:45:12.623
And that, that's the connection we're truly getting now.

00:45:12.963 --> 00:45:28.952
So, because of that, I don't think a professional journalist, you know, a reporter or, or anchor person or whatever, Who has to put on a front right put on a suit asked a professional question all that can deliver that just by nature You know, they're not going to be as well.

00:45:28.972 --> 00:45:45.188
They can't say Uh, they wish they can if they have a business built a certain way It's if they are worrying about advertisers and the things that that that are hidden in cable media Yeah, but if you have built a A platform that has no advertisers, but it's run on Patreon.

00:45:45.197 --> 00:45:50.318
You can, and maybe you'll lose some, some subscribers along the way, but you also gain some.

00:45:50.797 --> 00:46:07.927
Um, but yeah, I mean, what, what you were just saying about, you know, the guy from the marathon podcast, me first realizing the power of podcasts actually came when, uh, besides bigger pockets, the next podcast I listened to was a crypto podcast and, um, it was called crypto one on one.

00:46:08.282 --> 00:46:22.362
And I learned a lot from it and the host Matthew Deamer and Matt tweeted one day, I'm in Philadelphia and I was working in Philadelphia at the time and I said, Hey man, I messaged him and I was like, Hey, do you want to grab dinner?

00:46:22.362 --> 00:46:23.172
And he said, yes.

00:46:23.233 --> 00:46:31.913
And I just made this transition in music out of like the company I've been working for for seven years to getting my first like salary position in music right before the pandemic.

00:46:32.362 --> 00:46:32.983
And I was like.

00:46:33.773 --> 00:46:38.952
Talking to him and I'd say, well, you know, I was at this company for a while and I had to remind myself.

00:46:38.952 --> 00:46:39.963
No, he doesn't know.

00:46:40.023 --> 00:46:40.952
I know him.

00:46:40.952 --> 00:46:42.193
He doesn't know me.

00:46:42.762 --> 00:46:44.262
I know what he's invested in.

00:46:44.762 --> 00:46:46.163
I know the people he's talked to.

00:46:46.353 --> 00:46:54.463
I know that he had a child that had a terminal illness from the day it was born and he had to pull the, you know, it died within 10 days.

00:46:54.713 --> 00:46:58.132
I know that his sister had been the victim of violent crime.

00:46:58.483 --> 00:47:00.413
I knew all of these things about him.

00:47:00.737 --> 00:47:18.128
But he knew nothing about me and that was super powerful in realizing that this platform, whether you are doing 15 minute podcasts, 30 minute, 45, 63 hour, it is all rapport building with the listener and it's one sided.

00:47:18.472 --> 00:47:22.083
But like it's it's it's one sided for the host.

00:47:22.112 --> 00:47:23.773
It's not one sided for the guest.

00:47:23.782 --> 00:47:25.452
I think there is this from sorry for the listener.

00:47:25.452 --> 00:47:32.492
The listener is really getting to know you you um, at least at least the version of you that you're putting out on the podcast.

00:47:32.503 --> 00:47:52.572
Not everyone puts out their true version but um, it is it is a really um, special medium for that purpose with the long form, you know, uh, content and it's also it's also I think um, I was thinking about like Mark Manson, who started, who started Podcastless.

00:47:52.583 --> 00:47:57.543
He's the author of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, um, really successful book.

00:47:57.543 --> 00:47:59.932
He then put out another book called Everything is Fucked.

00:48:00.083 --> 00:48:02.313
He then authored a book for Will Smith.

00:48:02.322 --> 00:48:07.572
He did something else, but that was like four books over five years.

00:48:08.773 --> 00:48:10.652
Now I get to hear from him twice a week.

00:48:10.728 --> 00:48:20.498
Think about all the people that you liked hearing or, you know, have gone on to the morning shows and the today shows and stuff like that.

00:48:20.568 --> 00:48:25.398
You got to hear about them once every year or once every two years when they had a new product coming out.

00:48:25.737 --> 00:48:32.818
Now every single one of those people that went onto those shows is putting out their thoughts every single week.

00:48:33.387 --> 00:48:34.833
And it's, Awesome.

00:48:34.932 --> 00:48:42.333
If you love those people, you know, other, but in the past, you might only get 10 books out of them and have their entire lifetime.

00:48:42.592 --> 00:48:46.592
And it's only around whatever subject they're focusing on the, on that book.

00:48:46.842 --> 00:48:57.652
Now, if you're a thought leader in psychology or, um, some type of science or whatever, like you're actually a novel, you, you, you produce novel thoughts and, and theories and that type of thing.

00:48:57.813 --> 00:48:59.512
People get to hear from you every.

00:49:00.217 --> 00:49:08.858
Week if you want them to or every day if you even decided to and that's really powerful Um, I think for for just like the audience of those people.

00:49:09.418 --> 00:49:09.827
Yeah.

00:49:09.958 --> 00:49:10.677
Yeah, that's true.

00:49:10.677 --> 00:49:12.987
I didn't even think about that That's interesting.

00:49:13.018 --> 00:49:15.498
Where do you see yourself going with your business?

00:49:15.938 --> 00:49:20.967
Are you gonna continue to focus on booking or are you going elsewhere with the pot?

00:49:21.228 --> 00:49:22.987
First of all, are you gonna stay in podcasting?

00:49:23.447 --> 00:49:26.097
But could you see yourself being in a podcast industry for life?

00:49:27.757 --> 00:49:51.648
Um, we'll see so so I built this out because I had nothing else going on and I like doing what I do Yeah, um, I built up a podcast editing side of the business for my girlfriend who was also In the music industry and graduated right into a pandemic shutting down all music jobs So right now this is the life we have and um, I have a photo booth rental business as well That is primarily on the weekends.

00:49:51.697 --> 00:50:01.538
I also invest in real estate and um I mean, I always kind of saw real estate being what's going to make me the most money and build my wealth.

00:50:01.677 --> 00:50:10.398
But I've also never really seen myself as a full time real estate investor, but that's partially because I never was trying to leave a job because of real estate.

00:50:10.418 --> 00:50:13.367
You know, I was never trying to use real estate to replace a job.

00:50:13.367 --> 00:50:15.757
I've been, I've had that https: otter.

00:50:15.847 --> 00:50:24.458
ai Ideally, I'd love I, you know, I definitely would not like to stop doing what I'm doing because what I'm doing with real estate takes over.

00:50:24.458 --> 00:50:31.518
I'd love to find a way to balance both because if nothing else, this is something I could do for free for people that I support.

00:50:31.547 --> 00:50:33.617
You know, when I work, I mentioned Brandon Novak.

00:50:33.818 --> 00:50:37.438
I work for him for free because I support what he does.

00:50:37.748 --> 00:50:48.822
Um, he, he was in, he was an addict for 20 years, very publicly, And now is nine years sober, has a treatment center and seven recovery homes.

00:50:49.143 --> 00:50:56.172
And I like being able to get him in front of people to drive donations to his foundation.

00:50:56.742 --> 00:51:13.452
Um, and so if I could have 10 people that I really support, and it's very easy for me because of the connections I have to get them in front of Big audiences and I have real estate paying me more than enough money that I don't need to charge for this.

00:51:13.483 --> 00:51:14.503
I could I could operate.

00:51:14.503 --> 00:51:23.112
This is just like a philanthropic cause because again, I'm not the one I've never had any illusions that I'm the one that's going to change the world and I'm okay with that.

00:51:23.152 --> 00:51:23.992
I don't want to be.

00:51:23.992 --> 00:51:27.603
I don't want to have that stress on my shoulders, but I can help people.

00:51:28.842 --> 00:51:30.893
that are through this one medium.

00:51:31.592 --> 00:51:41.222
Um, so yeah, I mean, everything I'm doing is to continue opening those doors to become one of the primary players in the podcasting space.

00:51:41.262 --> 00:51:45.393
And I hope that continues to grow and I can use those to help people and educate people.

00:51:46.362 --> 00:51:46.762
Excellent.

00:51:47.052 --> 00:51:47.422
Thank you.

00:51:48.253 --> 00:51:49.443
I think you are changing the world.

00:51:50.393 --> 00:51:50.842
By helping people.

00:51:51.202 --> 00:51:51.552
Thank you.

00:51:51.922 --> 00:51:52.242
Yeah.

00:51:53.213 --> 00:51:59.163
So, Spencer, on that note, uh, I'd like to shift over to our Wayfinder 4, if we could.

00:51:59.342 --> 00:52:00.572
I know you've heard these before.

00:52:00.822 --> 00:52:02.842
Give us a hack that you use.

00:52:06.952 --> 00:52:11.873
Honestly, this is gonna sound weird, but I think self awareness is one of the biggest hacks we have.

00:52:11.998 --> 00:52:18.918
Like you won't waste time on things you're not supposed to be wasting time on or things that are trivial, you know, ego run.

00:52:19.268 --> 00:52:27.248
Um, whether that's purchasing things or chasing after accolades that serve no purpose to you ultimately, once you get them, if you can be more self aware.

00:52:28.027 --> 00:52:29.568
And how do you grow that self awareness?

00:52:31.018 --> 00:52:33.288
Man, ask people around you, what's wrong with you?

00:52:35.027 --> 00:52:35.998
And, and start.

00:52:36.998 --> 00:52:42.097
Looking back, are these arguments I'm having because this person's crazy or because I said something wrong?

00:52:42.318 --> 00:52:47.277
I mean, stop, stop taking so much offense against like the things you've done wrong.

00:52:48.007 --> 00:52:49.007
You might be doing wrong.

00:52:49.367 --> 00:52:49.898
And like.

00:52:50.672 --> 00:52:54.262
Give some merit to the fact that you play into your problems too.

00:52:55.003 --> 00:52:56.762
It's not just life happening to you.

00:52:58.833 --> 00:53:04.793
Good point What about a favorite book show activity?

00:53:05.253 --> 00:53:08.713
I mean favorite book is the subtle art of not giving a fuck and outliers.

00:53:08.722 --> 00:53:23.952
Um, which I Already incorporate the word outlier into like all of my businesses and stuff before I knew of the book It just made a lot of sense to me Um, it was a statistics term and I was, you know, it didn't mean good or bad, it just meant outside of the norm.

00:53:23.952 --> 00:53:31.932
I'm like, well, I'm a 15 year old kid that doesn't do drugs, doesn't drink alcohol, that likes metal bands in this little farm town and I'm booking concerts.

00:53:32.782 --> 00:53:34.052
It's not all good or bad.

00:53:34.052 --> 00:53:35.623
It's just like, it's different.

00:53:35.782 --> 00:53:40.563
Um, and I just like made a lot of sense to me and I, it's just resonated with me ever since.

00:53:41.132 --> 00:53:41.643
I love it.

00:53:42.773 --> 00:53:45.402
What about, uh, advice for your younger self?

00:53:48.273 --> 00:53:57.413
As much as I said, it's, I shouldn't care too much about comparing to the speed that other people are moving at that are younger than me.

00:53:57.612 --> 00:54:00.043
There's definitely Only some things I could have done better.

00:54:00.043 --> 00:54:10.342
I was I was younger that would put me further ahead now Uh, I wouldn't even say there's tons of like decisions that I regret It's just like I could have developed some skills more diligently.

00:54:10.342 --> 00:54:21.063
I could have committed to some things better than I did and um You know just stuck with it instead of jumping around but you know, I learned merchandising business.

00:54:21.063 --> 00:54:22.083
I learned ecom.

00:54:22.083 --> 00:54:33.572
I learned Photobooth I learned a lot of things and they're they're great now, but I could have stuck with Some of them and been willing to put into work earlier on, and maybe I would have had an outcome that put me further along.

00:54:33.572 --> 00:54:37.472
Now, I'll say it's worked out pretty good.

00:54:37.893 --> 00:54:39.552
I'm excited about your future anyway.

00:54:39.552 --> 00:54:41.583
So I think I think you've done.

00:54:41.583 --> 00:54:41.913
All right.

00:54:42.248 --> 00:54:43.688
But what about No, thank you.

00:54:43.887 --> 00:54:48.458
Last one, uh, you choose between a big opportunity or a limiting belief.

00:54:51.507 --> 00:54:52.938
Actually, I'm not even going to give you a choice.

00:54:52.938 --> 00:54:55.088
Just give us a big opportunity that you're working on.

00:54:57.737 --> 00:55:03.338
Um, well, as I mentioned, there are some people I work for for free.

00:55:03.648 --> 00:55:08.777
I'm going to become more diligent in finding the right people to work for for free to build open more doors.

00:55:09.068 --> 00:55:23.713
Um, Not putting that out there for people to email me and say, Hey, you can work for me for free, but, um, you know, finding, finding people out there that really can, can push, you know, open doors for me and refer me to, you know, right clients and, and finding that work.

00:55:23.762 --> 00:55:25.773
That's, that's a big opportunity for me right now.

00:55:26.052 --> 00:55:31.273
Yeah, I'll tell you every quantum leap I've made in my adult life.

00:55:31.302 --> 00:55:36.202
I, I think it's been by doing stuff for free, right.

00:55:36.242 --> 00:55:38.893
Whether it's or, or very little, right.

00:55:38.902 --> 00:55:40.693
It might've been a job that just barely.

00:55:41.617 --> 00:55:46.797
Paid, you know, um, just connecting to the right people.

00:55:46.797 --> 00:56:01.027
Like my last partnership, you know, we kind of just agreed to what there was a little bit of an exchange there cause he, he needed a license that I have, but, um, but it was very minimal, but it turned into one of my best business partnerships ever.

00:56:01.458 --> 00:56:01.838
Right.

00:56:02.157 --> 00:56:05.018
Um, I don't know.

00:56:05.038 --> 00:56:10.338
I think, yeah, aligning yourself with the right people and don't worry about the money is just such a hack.

00:56:10.467 --> 00:56:10.757
Right.

00:56:10.827 --> 00:56:23.748
Yeah, sometimes it's a weird balance for me as like someone that's still building their business because I've had people say to me, um, You should work for me for free.

00:56:23.867 --> 00:56:26.257
And I'm like, you're a multimillionaire.

00:56:26.257 --> 00:56:30.777
You should pay me Like, no, I don't need to work for you free.

00:56:30.807 --> 00:56:31.257
For free.

00:56:31.257 --> 00:56:34.347
And because you presented it that way, now we're not gonna work together at all.

00:56:34.347 --> 00:56:34.858
It won't work.

00:56:34.862 --> 00:56:35.782
Yeah, exactly.

00:56:35.847 --> 00:56:36.148
Yeah.

00:56:36.148 --> 00:56:42.938
But there, but you know, I've raised, there are people that, like I've gotten, as I've grown, it's like, no, you, you can pay me.

00:56:42.967 --> 00:56:43.538
It's fine.

00:56:43.777 --> 00:56:44.257
Yeah.

00:56:44.257 --> 00:56:44.378
You know?

00:56:44.378 --> 00:56:44.467
Yeah.

00:56:44.467 --> 00:56:50.588
I, I'll Um, but there are, there are other people that like, I, I'm in a very unique situation with my service where.

00:56:50.987 --> 00:56:55.737
For example, let's just say there's an author that's very well known, multiple bestsellers or something like that.

00:56:56.097 --> 00:56:58.588
They've got a top of the line publicist.

00:56:59.657 --> 00:57:01.927
But right now they don't have a product in the works.

00:57:01.967 --> 00:57:04.367
Therefore, they're probably not paying that publicist.

00:57:04.677 --> 00:57:20.617
And so I can step in and say I'll book you on podcast for free and They'll probably accept it because like why not like they can always return to that person again when they have that product ready with their traditional publicist.

00:57:20.637 --> 00:57:24.307
But in the meantime, it doesn't mean they shouldn't be going on podcast.

00:57:24.577 --> 00:57:27.818
So I can provide that to them for free.

00:57:27.858 --> 00:57:31.907
In the meantime, I'm not stepping on anybody's toes and they're down.

00:57:31.918 --> 00:57:32.568
Why not?

00:57:32.677 --> 00:57:38.637
You know, so, uh, it's a unique position I'm in to offer that and it can open up big doors.

00:57:39.088 --> 00:57:40.088
Yeah, that's great.

00:57:40.487 --> 00:57:48.847
You know, what's interesting, I think about, In the real estate space is, you know, I've been a broker most of my life and oftentimes we're working with investors.

00:57:49.097 --> 00:58:00.077
You, you come across some successful investors and they are like, oh, you know, they want you to work for them for practically for free or very, very little, you know, like, oh, cause they do volume or they're this, you know, they're big stuff or whatever.

00:58:00.568 --> 00:58:05.628
Rarely, rarely, I mean, I don't think there's, it's ever actually worked out, right?

00:58:06.322 --> 00:58:10.932
You know, but they, oh, they'll say, oh, they'll put out that, you know, they want an investor friendly agent.

00:58:10.943 --> 00:58:11.422
What is that?

00:58:11.422 --> 00:58:15.103
That's usually code for, Hey, I want, you know, you know, work for nothing for me.

00:58:15.123 --> 00:58:15.382
Right.

00:58:16.277 --> 00:58:21.737
Hardly ever works out, but then there's other people who, who are also very successful.

00:58:21.737 --> 00:58:30.237
You never heard of, and they're not out there doing that stuff and you realize, Hey, I would work for that person for, you know, let's say a, uh, a Sam Zell in the real estate space.

00:58:30.237 --> 00:58:35.978
I got, I mean, you know, may rest in peace, but if you were alive, like it'd be foolish of me not to work for free for him.

00:58:36.007 --> 00:58:36.358
Right?

00:58:36.358 --> 00:58:41.947
Like I would love to, I would have done anything to work for that guy, you know, and, uh, but I'm sure he would never.

00:58:42.063 --> 00:58:42.882
Do it right.

00:58:42.882 --> 00:58:45.242
Like he just wasn't the kind of guy who would accept that.

00:58:45.253 --> 00:58:50.393
So when you have somebody that tells you that that's such a red flag, right?

00:58:50.393 --> 00:58:52.762
Like you said somebody, Oh, you should work for me for free.

00:58:52.773 --> 00:58:59.532
Like that, that, that right there is just, it's just clearly not the kind of person like a brand new Novak would be right.

00:58:59.583 --> 00:58:59.952
Right.

00:58:59.952 --> 00:59:00.282
Right.

00:59:00.612 --> 00:59:00.893
Yeah.

00:59:00.893 --> 00:59:01.632
I mean, it was funny.

00:59:01.643 --> 00:59:05.882
The guy, the guy had been like knighted because of his philanthropic work.

00:59:06.583 --> 00:59:12.487
And he's like, But like, I listen to his interviews, all they talked about was being knighted and I'm like, who cares?

00:59:12.717 --> 00:59:13.657
It means nothing.

00:59:14.297 --> 00:59:23.268
I mean, cool, it's a cool accolade, but like, you want me to represent you for free because you've been knighted so I can get you on podcasts to go talk about how you've been knighted.

00:59:23.277 --> 00:59:25.047
Like, I could not care less.

00:59:25.318 --> 00:59:25.527
Right.

00:59:25.527 --> 00:59:26.268
And you shouldn't either.

00:59:26.797 --> 00:59:27.047
Right.

00:59:27.057 --> 00:59:29.068
So, no, I'm not going to work for you for free.

00:59:29.737 --> 00:59:30.088
Yeah.

00:59:31.188 --> 00:59:39.507
Well, if people want to work with you, uh, Spencer for, for a fee, a well deserved fee, uh, how should they reach out to you?

00:59:41.168 --> 00:59:42.728
Yeah, I mean, you can find me on Instagram.

00:59:42.728 --> 00:59:43.648
My name is Spencer Carpenter.

00:59:43.648 --> 00:59:44.858
They're linked in.

00:59:44.858 --> 00:59:45.757
I'm pretty active.

00:59:45.797 --> 00:59:47.797
My website is outlier audio.

00:59:48.057 --> 01:00:04.353
com And you can just kind of reach out anywhere and you can also just reach out if you just want to chat about podcast or Looking for advice or something like that You know, I'm always down to to give away whatever advice I can or help I can Well, thank you for being here.

01:00:05.072 --> 01:00:12.943
Spencer, I think I've known you for about two or three years now, and that friendship, I'd like to believe, has flourished rapidly.

01:00:13.233 --> 01:00:16.753
And, uh, I consider you one of my best friends.

01:00:16.893 --> 01:00:20.302
I know we chat a lot, and I think people can hear why.

01:00:20.302 --> 01:00:22.663
I mean, you really got a heart of service.

01:00:24.077 --> 01:00:29.177
But you're also like really smart and all that good stuff, and I hope people reach out and work with you.

01:00:30.137 --> 01:00:31.097
I appreciate that, man.

01:00:31.097 --> 01:00:38.867
Yeah, I've really, I've really enjoyed our, um, you know, it was cool that we met at Podcast Movement in Colorado, and then you came out again in D.

01:00:38.867 --> 01:00:55.827
C., and then you ended up representing me on my land in Colorado, and, um, you know, I've, I've, Love that continues to grow and, um, we seem pretty aligned, you know, we, we, we met through a group and in that group, there's a lot of people working towards big goals, but lots of different personalities.

01:00:56.628 --> 01:01:01.597
Um, and I like that, like I found someone that I, you know, I can, I can mesh with really well.

01:01:02.108 --> 01:01:02.438
Yeah.

01:01:02.697 --> 01:01:03.217
Likewise.

01:01:03.637 --> 01:01:04.068
Take care.

01:01:10.443 --> 01:01:12.202
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01:01:12.353 --> 01:01:16.572
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01:01:16.862 --> 01:01:21.112
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