The Passionate Workforce w/Nicholas Capman

WEBVTT

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People want to be able to hit their goals, but they also want to be challenged, right?

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So if my goal is too small and I achieve it, do I feel a sense of accomplishment?

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No.

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If my goal is too high and I keep missing it over and over again, is that going to foster passion?

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Absolutely not.

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It's got to be something within the realm of realism.

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Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.

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Hey, everyone.

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And now back to our show.

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Welcome back to the Wayfinder show.

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I'm your host, Louis Hernandez.

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And today I'm here with Nicholas Kappmann.

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Nicholas has led the FDA group since December of 2006, building an award winning firm that helps life science organizations access top tier consultants, contractors, and candidates across all stages of the product lifecycle.

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With a strong background in quality, compliance, regulatory affairs, clinical research, validation, and enterprise wide software, Nicholas is recognized for his expertise and successful history in the FDA regulated industry.

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Nicholas recently published The Passionate Workforce.

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How to create and maintain maximum employee engagement.

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The book focuses on creating and maintaining employee engagement and has received praise for its insightful strategies.

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Nicholas, welcome to the Wayfinder show.

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Thank you very much, Louis.

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I appreciate you having me on.

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We're going to talk about what you actually provide as a service.

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We're just placing good candidates and how that has probably made you develop a good radar for leadership and such, I would imagine.

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I would also imagine that's what led to your book, and I'm just going to ask at a really high level.

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Why is it important for a workforce, and employees to be, passionate about their work?

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Well, the way I would answer that is if we, We think of ourselves individually.

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we've all been in jobs where we've been passionate and we've also had jobs where we've been resentful.

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And if you think about those jobs that you've had, where you were passionate, you can recall the types of behaviors that you engaged in, right?

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you showed up early, you were motivated and ambitious.

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You were creative, innovative, willing to help do the extras.

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spread, a positive atmosphere within the environment.

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then you can also remember those jobs that you had where you were resentful.

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Same person, different behaviors, right?

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You didn't show up on time.

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You didn't care about the quality of your work.

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Badmouthing the company or your boss.

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You weren't innovative and creative.

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You weren't helpful.

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So, over time, what I came to realize is that we as leaders and managers want the most out of our people.

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And there's lots of different ways that we can maximize the output from our workforce.

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The angle that I wanted to attack that big question and challenge from was getting people into the right mindset, whereby they can put themselves in a position to provide a maximum output for their team.

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And so the way I look at it is if I can get my workforce into a mindset where they absolutely love their job.

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And they feel passionate about it, then there's a better chance than not that they're going to be exerting those behaviors that is commonplace with people that have that type of mindset.

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Yeah.

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So, I mean, when I hear that, I'm thinking ultimately about company culture, right?

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One that just breeds passion and one that doesn't.

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we see both, you know, I think right away a very passionate culture might be, the old Southwest Airlines, right?

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There was been tons of, Harvard Business Studies, cases of their old culture and I did that in my MBA.

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Yeah, same here.

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it was one of my favorite case studies actually and I became a loyalist to Southwest and up until recently I mean I because of that in raising my kids and everything.

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We just loved, you know We could have taken any airline, but we loved them because they gave them the little wings and they sang happy birthday to them and you know, all these different things with kids.

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They were just so great with company culture, right?

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Costco is another good one, right?

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This is very, low level work, but people go there and they're there for many, many, many years.

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And I remember that case study as well.

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all the MBA programs around the country all use the same program.

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Business studies, right?

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We are okay.

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We're all essentially students of Harvard Business School because that's all the ones who write all the case studies at the end of the day, We're just not paying the HBS, tuition there, I guess, but we're getting the same network, I'm curious, you know, in your industry, you come from the pharmaceutical industry, uh, mostly, right, in, in, in food, the food and drug industry, essentially, right?

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Not to get semantics, but I would call it life sciences.

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so what I would define it is pharmaceuticals, biologics and medical devices.

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So while FDA stands for the Food and Drug Administration, we don't actually do any consulting within the food realm.

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Thank you for the correction.

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why don't we just backtrack first?

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So I have a really good understanding.

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So your company, tell us a little bit more about what it is and what you do there.

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simply stated, we help.

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Pharmaceutical biologic medical device companies, with the FDA.

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So just like you would hire an accountant to help you with the IRS, or you would hire a lawyer to help you with the DOJ.

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they hire us to help them with the FDA.

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interesting.

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so these companies, that develop drugs and biologics and medical devices, just like everybody have projects that they need to do.

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sometimes when it comes to those projects, They don't have a specific skill set within a particular area that they need help with, right?

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So good example is I've got a bunch of scientists.

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We're developing drugs We know how to manufacture them and at the same time we have to comply with FDA regulations But I don't have anybody that's an expert subject matter expert on those regulations So I need to contact the FDA I'm working on a project.

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I don't Have enough staff to get me through the project that I'm on in the timeline that I need to complete it by.

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In that regard, they would contact us and we would provide them with those temporary resources and then lastly, as companies expand and they need to hire full time employees.

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Sometimes they need help in recruiting those employees.

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And that also is a service that we 3 different engagement models consulting.

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and staff augmentation and full time employee recruitment.

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Oh, got it.

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Okay.

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So, so with that in mind, what led you to write a book of, you know, about workforce engagement and would that apply to the placement piece?

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Well, I'll get into how it all came about.

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So I'm a member of Vistage, which is a CEO advisory group.

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And, at some point, I started getting comments that I thought differently and I would hear this.

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Over and over again, and what that told me was that I wasn't just regurgitating things that I learned from my MBA and, Harvard business school or, books that I was reading.

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I was taking all of this information that I had accumulated, put it into a cauldron and came out with my own mixture.

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And once I realized that my philosophy.

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was unique.

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I said, well, that's a value.

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That's a value add.

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so at that point I just created a word document and I called it book notes.

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And one of the things that I found.

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About myself is I would repeat mantras and stories over and over again, or philosophies.

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And so every time I caught myself saying something that I thought was really core to my belief system, I would write it down in that book notes document.

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And then I saw an advertisement for Scribe Media on LinkedIn, and I really liked their messaging and what they had to say in terms of helping somebody like me create and promote a book.

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And that was how I got started.

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Tell us what is it about you that is so different?

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how do you, foster a passionate workforce?

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I have, 15 pillars, that I think are the most important.

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In terms of creating a passionate workforce, and I created an assessment tool so that leaders and managers can rate themselves and have their team rate them on how they are doing with each of those 15 pillars and my philosophy and the rating structure, the way I do it is very similar to NPS scoring.

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So if anybody's familiar with net promoter score, I use the same scale, and the same measurements.

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The only thing that I do is I use that NPS, scoring system for each of the 15 pillars.

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if you can score a nine or above in a particular area, I would say.

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you're a champion leader.

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If you're between, seven and nine, you're a competent leader, but there's room for improvement.

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And if you're below a seven, the term I use is toxic leader.

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And that's where you really need to focus on that particular pillar and how you can get the score up.

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Wow.

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That's great.

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I mean, I can think of a bunch of places I've worked where I would have loved for all of us to take that assessment.

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You know, I would say that's probably the most common thing I hear after I introduce what the book is, is that comment right there.

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That's what I always hear.

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So, let's go through the pillars.

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Could we?

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Okay.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Or at least, I mean, it's 15.

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Do you want me to kind of go through all 15?

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Maybe I would love to hear the list and maybe we could just touch on, a few of them.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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but I'd love to hear what they all are, and then we just dive into a couple.

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So it's, give clear direction, provide the necessary tools to complete the job, empower employees to make decisions on their own, operate with the greater good in mind, respect employees bandwidth, set clear expectations, communicate Respectfully and candidly determine an acceptable team meeting cadence, conduct regular one on one meetings, offer rewards and recognition, assess employees job satisfaction, cultivate strong, resilient relationships, ensure employees feel a sense of purpose, compensate your workforce appropriately, and achieve a good work life blend.

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Okay, so none of those sounded like super.

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Unusual to me, right?

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I would imagine putting an emphasis on all of them would separate a champion from a competent and toxic leader.

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Yeah, I think one of the things that I like about the 15 Pillars is I think it's thorough and it encapsulates everything.

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I think sometimes as leaders and managers, we know we're doing things, Correctly, we know some of the buzzwords offering rewards and recognition, right?

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But what I wanted to do is I think some people say, but am I doing everything?

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Is there anything I'm missing?

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And so with the 15 pillars, I think that is a nice list where you can say, okay, I'm not missing anything.

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This is it.

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This is the list.

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Okay.

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So even if you knew I had to offer rewards and recognition, how do I know that I'm doing it correctly?

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and what is the best way to offer rewards and recognition?

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So I know I'm supposed to do it.

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But how am I supposed to do it?

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what is the best method?

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What's the best practice?

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And then if I believe that I've learned the best practice about offering rewards and recognition, how do I measure that to make sure that I actually am optimizing my ability to deliver on that promise as a leader and manager.

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So that is really one of the things that I think is a benefit of the book is you don't have to worry about, am I missing anything?

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you don't have to worry about.

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am I doing things the correct way?

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And it also encourages you to measure so that, you know, for certain, if you're achieving, the results that you believe are necessary.

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So I'm curious when you take this assessment, is this a self assessment or is this something kind of like the 360 assessments where you hand it off to your workforce and others as well as your own?

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I encourage people to do both.

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because I want, The leader and manager to see if their perspective of themselves matches with what the team says.

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so you as a leader and manager would actually go and write yourself one to 10 on all of each of these, understanding that nine and above is a champion leader, seven to nine is a competent leader and anything below that is a.

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toxic leader.

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then you send out an anonymous survey to the people that report to you and you take the average of all of their responses for each of the pillars.

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So if you have six people reporting to you, they will, each of them will rank you on a scale of one to 10 for each of those 15 pillars.

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Where are you excelling and where are you not excelling?

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So I do it annually.

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I don't have a strong opinion on how often people do this.

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I think quarterly is probably too much.

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I think anything more than a year is not often enough.

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so that's generally my guidance.

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But, I went ahead and did this and, you know, not to humbly, you know, humble brag, but I was able to achieve nine and above on 14.

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on one of them, I got an 8.

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86, which was compensate your workforce appropriately.

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So, Give him a raise, Nicholas.

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So I knew that I was competent and I understood that that was an area that I could improve upon.

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So, how I recommend that people do it is their self assessment and an anonymous survey for those people that report to them and then take those two numbers, the one you gave yourself and the one that your team gave you, and that will tell you if you got a good pulse.

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On yourself and how you are as a leader and manager, because if you have more than two standard deviations, from what your team is reporting, that's a wake up call.

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There's a disconnect, right?

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And it could be either way, right?

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I mean, I'm typically Thinking that we as leaders and managers are going to rate ourselves as a 10 and then find out we're a six, but you're absolutely right.

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I might think I'm a six, but actually they tell me I'm a 10 and perspective, you know, perception is reality.

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So, you know, at the end of the day, there's two ways you can look at it.

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if I rate myself as a six, but my team rates me as a nine, which one is true?

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And I think both answers are valid.

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With that said, I believe that the 10 is the correct number because that's the perception of my staff.

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And I think that is more important than what I think is true.

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you know, one of the analogies I like to use is if I have a yellow pen and I ask 30 people, what color is this pen?

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And 30 people say it's purple.

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Is the pen.

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Yellow, or is it purple?

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I can understand both answers.

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My opinion, if I'm going to answer that, is it is purple, because 30 people have agreed that it's purple.

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So, in my opinion, perception is reality.

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Now, if we want to get into science and all that stuff, and, well, I actually proved it, and everybody's wrong, okay, you can argue with me that way, but I think the general idea and concept makes sense.

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No, that makes a lot of sense.

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I'm curious.

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Actually, we'll save this question for the end.

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But let's go through some of the pillars.

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If we can highlight, let's say three that you think are most, most important.

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Like I hear those and I'm thinking compensation is kind of where it starts, right?

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We all kind of go for a job based on what it's going to pay.

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I mean, not just that, but, you know, it's got to have a floor, right?

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So, uh, I don't really want to focus too much on that one.

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You talked about purpose, having a sense of purpose, I'm curious what you think, how they weigh compared to some of the others.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I've had obviously people read the book and I've gotten some feedback, so I think I could probably touch on some pillars because some of them have a unique perspective believe it or not, compensate your workforce appropriately.

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I have actually a unique perspective on.

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But, you know, I would say, a pillar two, which is provide the necessary tools to do your job.

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actually, I got to go back to pillar two, because pillar 14, which is compensate your workforce appropriately, actually ties in with that.

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So let me ask you to start there.

00:20:28.683 --> 00:20:38.574
one of the things that I promote, and I would say that this is probably controversial is I'm not a fan of merit based compensation.

00:20:39.933 --> 00:20:46.173
right now that doesn't mean that employees don't have goals and they're responsible to hit those goals.

00:20:46.703 --> 00:20:47.894
I grew up in sales.

00:20:48.124 --> 00:20:51.763
And so I've had lots of different commission and bonus programs.

00:20:52.263 --> 00:21:02.354
One of the things that I've found is the more you tweak And add things to a compensation plan.

00:21:02.973 --> 00:21:09.683
The more loopholes you have created for me to abuse that program.

00:21:10.804 --> 00:21:11.314
Okay.

00:21:11.773 --> 00:21:13.933
And, and that's just the truth of the matter.

00:21:13.953 --> 00:21:17.284
We as human beings respond to incentives and.

00:21:17.284 --> 00:21:34.443
Disincentives, and if you're creating a plan where it's not simple and straightforward, and it's got a bunch of ifs, ands, and buts, I am going to study that, and I'm going to find a way that I can maximize that plan to my benefit, and here's the unfortunate truth.

00:21:35.203 --> 00:21:48.183
What that compensation plan has created is a pathway for me to not do what is in the best interest of the company at a hundred percent, I would argue.

00:21:48.653 --> 00:21:53.574
Now that compensation program doesn't mean all of a sudden now I'm completely not doing my job and abusing it.

00:21:53.973 --> 00:21:58.834
What it does mean is you're not getting a hundred percent of what I can offer.

00:21:58.834 --> 00:22:03.054
You might be getting 80 percent or 90 percent or some other percentage.

00:22:03.554 --> 00:22:09.864
So what I believe in and what I've implemented at my company is profit sharing.

00:22:10.199 --> 00:22:15.358
Everybody gets profit sharing and that does a number of things.

00:22:15.419 --> 00:22:20.169
the most important thing that it does is it makes sure that everybody's rowing in the same direction.

00:22:20.818 --> 00:22:24.699
so let's use merit based compensation program.

00:22:24.739 --> 00:22:28.778
And because I came from sales and that's what I'm familiar with, that's the example I'm going to use.

00:22:28.848 --> 00:22:29.338
Okay.

00:22:29.749 --> 00:22:35.749
So let's say, my job as a salesperson is to, and we'll go to my company because again, I'm familiar with my company.

00:22:35.763 --> 00:22:39.763
I have to sell staff, I have to put people in positions so they can work.

00:22:40.094 --> 00:22:44.534
The more people I place, the more money the company makes, and then I get my bonuses.

00:22:44.614 --> 00:22:49.773
there might be a team that's responsible for helping me to put that person.

00:22:50.298 --> 00:22:51.169
in there, right?

00:22:51.199 --> 00:22:56.118
We'll call them like a recruitment team and they have to go and find the correct people.

00:22:56.818 --> 00:23:00.148
Well, that recruitment team probably isn't just helping me.

00:23:00.169 --> 00:23:02.838
They're probably helping a bunch of other salespeople.

00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:12.979
Well, now I want to make sure they're spending the vast majority of their time working on mine and not somebody else's.

00:23:13.439 --> 00:23:15.239
So now I begin politicking.

00:23:15.828 --> 00:23:28.449
Because I am a self profit maximizer and I want, to hit my goals and make the most money I can, politicking is not a good thing, right?

00:23:28.499 --> 00:23:28.659
Yeah.

00:23:28.778 --> 00:23:40.159
And, the politicking I'm doing so that I can place my person might not actually be in the best interest of the company because the other salesperson, their deal might be much bigger.

00:23:40.874 --> 00:23:46.673
But because I'm really good at politicking, I've got that recruiter working on mine and not theirs.

00:23:46.723 --> 00:23:56.384
So now you can see an opportunity where a merit based compensation program is creating some sort of strife within the operations of that company.

00:23:57.413 --> 00:23:59.624
Now in a profit sharing perspective.

00:24:00.183 --> 00:24:19.213
I look at my opportunity, I look at the other person's opportunity, we collectively agree that that other opportunity is bigger and more important and it will make the company more money and it will make all of us more money because we all get to benefit from the profit of the organization.

00:24:20.124 --> 00:24:30.324
Here's another thing where I think, profit sharing comes into play is if I am, again, a sales person I want to maximize my ability to sell.

00:24:30.959 --> 00:24:33.808
I'm going to go to all the conferences that I can go to.

00:24:34.318 --> 00:24:37.368
I'm going to wine and dine, as much as I can.

00:24:37.729 --> 00:24:45.219
I'm going to approve all of the advertisement dollars that I can, because that doesn't affect me.

00:24:45.798 --> 00:24:56.288
So I don't care how much money the company spends, and I don't care what the return on investment is, because the more money that can be pumped into marketing, the more I know I'll be able to sell.

00:24:56.969 --> 00:25:05.028
Well, here's the truth of the matter, is that Some advertising and conferences is going to produce a good return on investment and others aren't.

00:25:05.679 --> 00:25:16.388
So as a member of a profit sharing program, I'm going to actually be thinking twice about whether or not that is going to provide a return on an investment.

00:25:16.903 --> 00:25:19.183
To the company and ultimately me.

00:25:19.913 --> 00:25:27.673
Now let's actually jump from pillar 14 to pillar two, which is provide the necessary tools to do your job.

00:25:28.394 --> 00:25:30.233
There's two ways to look at it.

00:25:30.233 --> 00:25:32.693
Can I cut you off before we get into that for a minute?

00:25:32.723 --> 00:25:50.608
I think another, I love the profit share model and one of the, other arguments for it, I've always liked as well is just that, if it works as a team, as a company profiting, then it also creates a checks and balances for having the team, hold each other up.

00:25:50.628 --> 00:25:50.929
Right.

00:25:50.939 --> 00:25:57.128
Cause then if somebody isn't holding their weight, then the rest of the team will be like, Hey, you're affecting my bonus.

00:25:57.148 --> 00:25:59.999
You're affecting my profit share and they won't put up with it.

00:26:00.019 --> 00:26:04.719
So I think it's, it's just a brilliant model, especially in sales.

00:26:04.739 --> 00:26:08.689
1 of the things that I like to say is it's not next job to hold everybody accountable.

00:26:08.689 --> 00:26:11.048
It's everybody's job to hold everybody accountable.

00:26:11.078 --> 00:26:12.259
and that is 1 now.

00:26:14.884 --> 00:26:16.144
Don't misunderstand.

00:26:16.233 --> 00:26:21.574
I think one thing people might misunderstand right off the bat is, oh, now you're going to get everybody mad at each other.

00:26:21.983 --> 00:26:26.943
No, you're going to see somebody that's not producing and the very first thing you want to do is help.

00:26:27.314 --> 00:26:29.304
If you're a normal human being.

00:26:29.729 --> 00:26:30.949
So that's what you're going to do.

00:26:31.298 --> 00:26:35.648
if it's a people issue, eventually that's going to come to light and it should come to light.

00:26:36.028 --> 00:26:40.328
And one of the words that we don't have in our organization is throwing somebody under the bus.

00:26:40.538 --> 00:26:41.909
That does not exist here.

00:26:42.074 --> 00:26:44.564
There is no such thing as throwing somebody under the bus.

00:26:44.693 --> 00:26:51.324
What it is, is I'm holding somebody accountable because I've offered my help and they haven't been able to pick it up.

00:26:51.403 --> 00:26:59.134
And, it's not fair to the rest of the company because everybody's being negatively impacted because this person isn't the right person in the right seat.

00:27:00.669 --> 00:27:01.118
Totally.

00:27:01.648 --> 00:27:02.068
Mm hmm.

00:27:02.709 --> 00:27:03.068
Good.

00:27:03.108 --> 00:27:06.519
So let's go back to point number two, pillar number two.

00:27:08.058 --> 00:27:16.278
Yeah, actually, one other thing I wanted to do before we get to number two is I get the same pushback on the profit sharing program.

00:27:16.439 --> 00:27:18.028
There's two things that I get pushed back on.

00:27:18.808 --> 00:27:22.519
One is, well, People, people aren't going to like this.

00:27:22.588 --> 00:27:30.939
Like all of a sudden you're telling me now, you know, I'm the top seller and I'm going to be making as much money as the bottom seller.

00:27:32.088 --> 00:27:41.288
Here's the thing is that if you're going to adjust any sort of compensation program, no matter how big or small, you're going to create strife.

00:27:41.709 --> 00:27:53.318
Okay, so it doesn't matter whether you take my advice or you take your own program and you decide to tweak it Okay, you're gonna get some people that are happy and you're gonna get some people that are sad now.

00:27:53.318 --> 00:28:03.713
I implemented it from day one So that was just the way it was so people coming in get the benefit of it And they're new and they're green.

00:28:03.864 --> 00:28:05.243
And so they get to benefit.

00:28:05.463 --> 00:28:08.894
Now they've been here for five years and somebody else new comes in.

00:28:09.413 --> 00:28:10.894
Well, they came in the same way.

00:28:12.233 --> 00:28:17.104
And in fact, that new person, they're not upset that that person's getting money right off the day.

00:28:17.104 --> 00:28:21.834
One they're excited because that person is going to help with efficiencies.

00:28:21.844 --> 00:28:25.354
It's going to help drive more business or whatever the case may be.

00:28:25.713 --> 00:28:27.403
So that that's my first.

00:28:27.874 --> 00:28:30.104
response to that common objection.

00:28:30.743 --> 00:28:38.594
The second thing is how much profit sharing I have, I have a couple of ways of looking at that.

00:28:38.604 --> 00:28:55.683
Number one is it can't be 1 percent because you're not going to get anybody on board and it can't be 90 percent because now you're not making any money The CEO, the executive team, you've got to determine what percentage of the company's profits should be given back to the employees.

00:28:56.473 --> 00:29:01.653
The CEO is, well, they should be treated with the same respect as everybody else.

00:29:02.364 --> 00:29:05.753
It's not going to have the same percentage as somebody at a different level.

00:29:06.453 --> 00:29:15.503
So I would say you should give a certain percentage to C level people, a certain percentage to V level people, D, M, and below.

00:29:15.834 --> 00:29:21.713
So each of those groups will have a percentage dedicated to that group.

00:29:22.034 --> 00:29:29.703
Now that also encourages people to engage in, exceptional work.

00:29:30.169 --> 00:29:33.118
Because everybody wants promotions, right?

00:29:33.818 --> 00:29:46.288
So while I do want to get promoted because now I can go to that next tier, which theoretically is going to pay me more, I'm also balancing that desire with the company's profitability.

00:29:46.804 --> 00:29:50.394
Because that at the end of the day is what we're all rowing toward.

00:29:51.003 --> 00:29:55.513
So I just wanted to comment on those two points before I went back to pillar two.

00:29:56.064 --> 00:29:56.394
Thank you.

00:29:58.604 --> 00:29:59.003
Okay.

00:29:59.183 --> 00:29:59.473
Yeah.

00:29:59.594 --> 00:30:02.213
So provide the necessary tools to complete your job.

00:30:02.253 --> 00:30:07.814
This actually I've found is one of the ones that people comment on a lot.

00:30:07.844 --> 00:30:14.844
they are often upset that their leadership and management team aren't giving them the tools to do their job.

00:30:15.644 --> 00:30:21.743
so you want me to complete this project how quickly and with what level of accuracy?

00:30:22.179 --> 00:30:32.278
And you're not going to give me the support that I told you that I needed that becomes an issue that's going to drive down passion that's going to push somebody toward resentment.

00:30:33.378 --> 00:30:34.298
You don't want that.

00:30:36.588 --> 00:30:48.638
Now, the reason I wanted to pause on this pillar before I talked about the compensate your work force appropriately in a profit sharing piece is because if I want a tool as a worker.

00:30:49.898 --> 00:30:51.888
What type of return is that going to give me?

00:30:53.098 --> 00:30:56.239
Is that tool just something so I don't have to work anymore?

00:30:57.999 --> 00:31:08.078
Or is that tool something that actually is going to create an efficiency so that the company can retain clients better, be more profitable, whatever the case may be.

00:31:08.288 --> 00:31:12.189
So pillar two is actually tied in to pillar 14.

00:31:12.878 --> 00:31:13.199
Okay.

00:31:13.219 --> 00:31:18.848
So, um, one of the other things I like to say is we don't encourage people to speak up.

00:31:18.858 --> 00:31:20.159
We require them to.

00:31:20.159 --> 00:31:20.239
Okay.

00:31:20.929 --> 00:31:31.739
Um, so early on in my career, one of the things that, one of the experiences I had is I had this job and I remember there were a bunch of broken processes.

00:31:32.693 --> 00:31:37.743
And one of the things that I thought was, boy, these executives are stupid.

00:31:39.413 --> 00:31:41.913
Over time, I realized they weren't stupid.

00:31:42.364 --> 00:31:44.034
It's just nobody spoke up.

00:31:44.693 --> 00:31:47.844
Now, maybe that was their fault for not creating a safe environment.

00:31:47.933 --> 00:31:57.884
Maybe it wasn't, but at the end of the day, one of the things that everybody in an organization needs to know is nobody in the company knows everything.

00:31:58.943 --> 00:32:06.084
And if you see something that is broken or could be improved upon, it is your responsibility to speak up.

00:32:06.124 --> 00:32:09.094
Don't assume that people know that it's that way.

00:32:09.534 --> 00:32:21.263
Speak up, explain it, and explain why you believe a change in that particular area is going to foster, something that is beneficial to the organization as a whole.

00:32:21.673 --> 00:32:22.513
Does that make sense?

00:32:22.673 --> 00:32:23.284
Absolutely.

00:32:24.314 --> 00:32:24.584
Yeah.

00:32:26.173 --> 00:32:41.394
You know what occurred to me earlier when going back to you, your point in the profit share, especially with sales forces, I'm curious if you still set up certain quotas for hitting profit shares there.

00:32:41.443 --> 00:32:42.624
We do, we do.

00:32:42.763 --> 00:32:48.973
Now let's talk about that because there is a perspective that I have.

00:32:49.419 --> 00:32:52.348
be it unique or not unique, but I think it's worth mentioning.

00:32:54.138 --> 00:32:57.009
So here is my recommendation.

00:32:57.048 --> 00:32:59.878
So let's, we bring in a salesperson.

00:32:59.929 --> 00:33:00.298
Okay.

00:33:01.249 --> 00:33:04.999
Uh, and, and I'm going to touch, kind of jump around a little bit on the pillars.

00:33:04.999 --> 00:33:11.209
One of the things that's important as I talk about this topic is, creating a correct team meeting cadence.

00:33:11.499 --> 00:33:11.989
Okay.

00:33:12.388 --> 00:33:16.788
So you should be having weekly meetings and you should be having quarterly meetings and annual meetings.

00:33:17.054 --> 00:33:29.503
Weekly, quarterly, annual, okay, when a new person, new sales person comes in, they're generally coming in the middle of a quarter, what we're going to do is we're not going to give them any goal.

00:33:29.993 --> 00:33:31.864
We're just going to track their metrics.

00:33:31.874 --> 00:33:36.263
So every week we see the metrics that we're tracking as a sales team.

00:33:36.554 --> 00:33:40.364
So every week as a new salesperson, I'm putting my numbers in.

00:33:41.094 --> 00:33:45.584
Now I'm able to see what everybody else is doing for those metrics.

00:33:45.634 --> 00:33:48.163
So we're able to see kind of what is that bar?

00:33:48.173 --> 00:33:55.243
What is reasonable right now, when the first quarterly meeting comes and I've.

00:33:55.679 --> 00:34:01.469
produced whatever I've produced, now it's time for me to set my quarterly goals, okay?

00:34:03.108 --> 00:34:10.518
It is important that the individual that is responsible for reporting those metrics create their own goal.

00:34:11.048 --> 00:34:14.009
Now before everybody freaks out, let me finish.

00:34:15.614 --> 00:34:18.853
It's important because then they own the goal.

00:34:19.434 --> 00:34:24.313
If I say, Louis, you have to sell, a 500, 000 this quarter.

00:34:25.184 --> 00:34:28.443
One of the things that you can say, I'm not going to hit that.

00:34:29.594 --> 00:34:32.284
Whatever boss, you said it, I'll do it.

00:34:34.403 --> 00:34:35.063
Where are we going?

00:34:35.074 --> 00:34:37.173
We're not moving in a passionate direction.

00:34:37.173 --> 00:34:38.423
we're backsliding.

00:34:38.503 --> 00:34:41.693
As if I create my own number, I said it.

00:34:41.693 --> 00:34:44.353
I have to own it.

00:34:44.434 --> 00:34:44.983
I believe it.

00:34:45.483 --> 00:34:48.903
Well now here's the next objection, which is, well, everybody's going to sandbag, right?

00:34:48.934 --> 00:34:50.454
I'll just create a lower number.

00:34:50.454 --> 00:34:51.414
So I keep hitting it.

00:34:51.833 --> 00:34:56.054
Well, that's not going to work Louie because guess who else is showing up on that scorecard every week?

00:34:56.173 --> 00:34:57.123
Everybody else.

00:34:57.304 --> 00:34:57.634
Yeah.

00:34:58.168 --> 00:34:58.409
Right.

00:34:58.418 --> 00:35:00.798
So I can see what everybody else is producing.

00:35:00.838 --> 00:35:03.728
I don't want to hit that bar, but now here's another problem.

00:35:03.728 --> 00:35:06.719
I'm a new salesperson, they can't get those numbers, right?

00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:07.978
That's okay.

00:35:08.588 --> 00:35:09.318
That's okay.

00:35:09.329 --> 00:35:13.338
You, you're not expected to hit those numbers from day one or quarter one.

00:35:13.608 --> 00:35:14.518
We understand that.

00:35:15.268 --> 00:35:15.648
Okay.

00:35:15.688 --> 00:35:22.108
Well, still, Louie, you know, or Nick, um, you know, what if people are playing around with these numbers?

00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:22.608
You know?

00:35:23.228 --> 00:35:28.829
Well, I never said that the leader and manager can't question somebody's goal, right?

00:35:28.838 --> 00:35:31.679
So you give me a goal and I think it's too low.

00:35:32.188 --> 00:35:44.579
Let's have a conversation based off of historical evidence and why at this point in time with this current economic environment, I think that is too low and vice versa.

00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:45.818
Maybe it's too high.

00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:55.708
Because as much as I'm not a big fan of everybody putting these goals that nobody ever hits because quarter after quarter year after year, you missed it.

00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:56.559
You missed it.

00:35:56.559 --> 00:35:57.378
You missed it.

00:35:57.568 --> 00:35:58.548
That's not fun.

00:35:59.048 --> 00:36:00.978
people want to be able to hit their goals.

00:36:01.423 --> 00:36:03.664
But they also want to be challenged, right?

00:36:03.853 --> 00:36:08.184
So if my goal is too small and I achieve it, do I feel a sense of accomplishment?

00:36:08.244 --> 00:36:08.554
No.

00:36:09.244 --> 00:36:13.884
If my goal is too high and I keep missing it over and over again, is that going to foster passion?

00:36:14.074 --> 00:36:15.063
Absolutely not.

00:36:15.393 --> 00:36:18.563
It's got to be something within the realm of, realism.

00:36:19.043 --> 00:36:26.356
And so a perfect goal is kind of 90 percent of what you think you're going to hit.

00:36:26.356 --> 00:36:26.518
Right.

00:36:26.958 --> 00:36:29.639
Because you should hit that goal every time.

00:36:30.048 --> 00:36:31.378
That's the expectation.

00:36:31.838 --> 00:36:34.489
It's not there for hopes and wishes.

00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:36.568
It's there because you're expected to hit it.

00:36:37.128 --> 00:36:42.378
So really, if we're thinking about, well, if I think I can sell a million, should I put a million?

00:36:42.398 --> 00:36:46.028
Because what if I sell nine 50, I tell you what, let's make 900.

00:36:47.268 --> 00:36:48.248
That's not far off.

00:36:48.643 --> 00:36:50.934
It's still within the realm of realism.

00:36:51.164 --> 00:36:53.414
And then I know that I'm able to exceed it.

00:36:53.574 --> 00:36:56.793
Now, again, I didn't say 500, 000 and then I double it.

00:36:57.293 --> 00:36:59.963
Now, what are we even creating goals for anymore?

00:37:00.284 --> 00:37:00.543
Right.

00:37:00.574 --> 00:37:01.903
But I don't want to make it 1.

00:37:02.003 --> 00:37:02.934
I think I can do a million.

00:37:02.934 --> 00:37:03.884
Well, now I'm falling short.

00:37:03.893 --> 00:37:07.454
And what is that doing into, you know, my enthusiasm?

00:37:10.043 --> 00:37:14.713
Yeah, you know, I think the self selection of goals is super important, right?

00:37:14.713 --> 00:37:19.574
And having a good coach and your manager, to help guide you with that is also really important.

00:37:19.574 --> 00:37:24.574
And I don't know if you ever heard of Takashi Harada, he's a Japanese, thought leader on this kind of stuff.

00:37:24.574 --> 00:37:37.804
he, Teaches a lot of Japanese companies like Toyota and such about this and how it's really important to do that And uh, i'm currently did he do is he the uh person that came out with lean?

00:37:37.914 --> 00:37:38.434
No.

00:37:38.474 --> 00:37:48.503
No He um, I don't think he's as well known Just, uh, I, I came across him because he coached Shihaya Tani when he was a middle school, baseball player.

00:37:48.903 --> 00:37:53.103
he just taught him how to vision and create, goals for yourself and how to hit them and all this stuff.

00:37:53.103 --> 00:37:57.523
And then he's built a whole corporate platform around this for companies there.

00:37:58.643 --> 00:38:23.463
And he talks about that like it really if you don't have pick your own goals Basically for whatever it is, then you don't have the same buy in you don't have same sense of purpose And you're just not as passionate and you won't chase it now I want to touch on goals a little bit because it's an interesting paradox that I have because we need goals Because without measurement, there's no control.

00:38:23.563 --> 00:38:23.764
Okay.

00:38:23.764 --> 00:38:24.923
So we need to have goals.

00:38:26.594 --> 00:38:29.923
The other thing is like, I kind of hate goals at the same time.

00:38:30.184 --> 00:38:36.134
and the reason I hate goals is because I can't wish things into existence.

00:38:36.903 --> 00:38:40.773
oftentimes people say, well, if you don't set that bar high, you're never going to reach it.

00:38:40.824 --> 00:38:42.983
I have a little bit of disagreement with that.

00:38:43.054 --> 00:38:44.934
are you familiar with atomic habits?

00:38:44.983 --> 00:38:45.728
James Clear.

00:38:46.099 --> 00:39:02.248
I very much subscribe to that ideology, which is if you're creating the correct habits and you're focusing on the habits and not the goal, those habits are actually the machine and the mechanism that allows you to hit that goal.

00:39:02.548 --> 00:39:12.918
So stop, keep looking at that big number that's coming a year down the road, and you can work back, you know, what do I, and that's really essentially what we're doing.

00:39:12.918 --> 00:39:14.278
So if my goal is a million.

00:39:14.958 --> 00:39:17.298
Well, then I have to do 250 per quarter.

00:39:17.789 --> 00:39:20.579
Well, if that's per quarter, what do I have to do per week?

00:39:21.128 --> 00:39:25.128
Well, if I have to do that per week, then what do I have to do in order to hit that?

00:39:25.139 --> 00:39:26.628
What is the amount of activity?

00:39:26.648 --> 00:39:34.509
so now you're actually engaging in strategic planning and creating the correct tactics and habits so that you can hit those goals.

00:39:34.518 --> 00:39:37.539
So the emphasis really needs to be on the habits.

00:39:37.838 --> 00:39:38.278
That's right.

00:39:38.789 --> 00:39:48.268
Yeah, I've always been a big fan of setting a big long term goal and then working it backwards all the way to the habit and developing the habits in between now to get to that.

00:39:48.469 --> 00:39:52.438
Because I, like you, I have a love hate relationship with goals.

00:39:52.438 --> 00:40:01.954
I mean, I like to think big and all that, but oftentimes it's so big in the short That it's unreachable, so it can be demoralizing, right?

00:40:02.173 --> 00:40:14.614
But if you set it for like five or ten years out, and you work it back to where, you know, you have to do a certain thing every day now, and work on developing that habit, then that goal actually becomes realistic in year, five or six or something.

00:40:14.614 --> 00:40:16.784
Oftentimes you far exceed that, right?

00:40:17.023 --> 00:40:23.378
So, I often talk about my, I run marathons and my journey, that's how I know Hopkinton.

00:40:23.378 --> 00:40:27.414
But, you know, my journey to get there was just like that.

00:40:27.414 --> 00:40:31.173
You know, I set a big, like a six year goal to qualify for Boston.

00:40:31.693 --> 00:40:33.034
it seemed inconceivable.

00:40:33.034 --> 00:40:37.724
I had to chop off almost two hours and, 60 pounds to get to that goal.

00:40:37.943 --> 00:40:42.364
developing the habits to get there over time made it like now I can do it.

00:40:42.768 --> 00:40:45.128
I mean, it'd be a bad day for me not to qualify, right?

00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:52.068
if I would have said that for one year from now, Hey, I'm going to qualify or in this next match, whatever, it's impossible in demoralizing, right?

00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:52.389
Yeah.

00:40:52.688 --> 00:40:57.429
And it's celebrating the small wins, you know, um, I forget who said this.

00:40:57.458 --> 00:41:00.518
It was some, Famous, uh, rich person.

00:41:00.518 --> 00:41:03.648
I don't know if it was Rockefeller or Warren Buffett or something.

00:41:04.128 --> 00:41:11.889
Um, and I'm probably misquoting it, but you'll look at the point, which is, you know, how, how much money do you need, to be happy?

00:41:12.088 --> 00:41:14.378
And the answer is more, right?

00:41:14.429 --> 00:41:18.838
that kind of goes with habits and goals, which is.

00:41:19.233 --> 00:41:24.844
Once I'm able to achieve that goal that I've set for a day or a week or whatever.

00:41:25.304 --> 00:41:25.724
Okay.

00:41:26.213 --> 00:41:26.824
Now I'm there.

00:41:27.184 --> 00:41:28.224
Now I need to do more.

00:41:28.594 --> 00:41:29.574
So what's next.

00:41:29.623 --> 00:41:30.983
It's the power of one more.

00:41:31.563 --> 00:41:32.034
Right.

00:41:32.074 --> 00:41:33.824
And it's just about this.

00:41:34.728 --> 00:41:44.789
Progress is really about achieving that metric and then pushing yourself to the next realistic achievable metric and building on that momentum.

00:41:45.278 --> 00:41:45.719
That's right.

00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:48.449
And that's a good one for calls.

00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:54.039
I think the author in that book uses it always, Hey, just, just make one more call to whatever you say you go for.

00:41:54.239 --> 00:42:02.188
Well, actually just to that point, my first sales job out of college, I was selling phone service door to door to businesses.

00:42:02.778 --> 00:42:12.349
And, there were certain people that did not want to comply with the recommendations that they had been trained on, and then there was really naive.

00:42:12.489 --> 00:42:18.079
young, ambitious people like me that was, I'm going to do exactly what everybody tells me to do.

00:42:18.139 --> 00:42:18.418
Right.

00:42:18.478 --> 00:42:25.199
And they had this one thing, they called it five after fives, which is knock on five doors after five o'clock.

00:42:25.739 --> 00:42:30.298
there was a portion of the office that did not want to do those.

00:42:30.378 --> 00:42:31.409
It's five o'clock.

00:42:31.469 --> 00:42:32.199
I'm tired.

00:42:32.528 --> 00:42:33.429
I want to get home.

00:42:34.864 --> 00:42:38.773
But I knew that that's the recommendation and I'm going to be successful.

00:42:38.773 --> 00:42:40.443
And I believe in what I've been trained on.

00:42:40.443 --> 00:42:41.853
I need to follow that process.

00:42:42.583 --> 00:42:45.514
That was the, that's what separated me.

00:42:46.353 --> 00:42:52.333
And now I actually ended up getting promoted and I ran that whole, branch within 11 months of being hired.

00:42:52.784 --> 00:43:03.454
And the reason I was able to, now I failed, cause I wasn't built to be a leader or a manager, but I was a really good salesperson because I drank the Kool Aid and I followed the process.

00:43:03.514 --> 00:43:15.014
And that five after five is a really good example of, in this case, it's not one more, it's five more, but, just to kind of push you because it's the successes in the margins.

00:43:15.949 --> 00:43:30.418
You know, it's the person that did the extra 5 percent that's going to separate themselves not only are they going to, separate themselves because they did 5 percent more, but here's the interesting thing is they're not going to do 5 percent better.

00:43:31.219 --> 00:43:34.268
They're going to do 15, 25 percent better.

00:43:34.518 --> 00:43:34.989
That's right.

00:43:35.318 --> 00:43:37.338
So it compounds on itself.

00:43:38.759 --> 00:43:39.559
Yeah, I love that.

00:43:40.268 --> 00:43:40.619
I love that.

00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:44.128
You know, to this day, I still, I'm in real estate sales.

00:43:44.139 --> 00:43:53.264
So to this day, I still enjoy going out usually on Friday afternoons and knocking on doors and it's amazing to me how effective that is.

00:43:54.313 --> 00:43:58.653
a lot of my peers, spend so much money on Facebook ads and all kinds of stuff.

00:43:58.653 --> 00:44:06.063
I'll spend a couple hours on a Friday afternoon when people come home happy, ready for the weekend, and share with them what's happening in the market.

00:44:06.443 --> 00:44:13.724
it's incredible how many leads that comes from how many great relationships I get and allows me to, get some new sales.

00:44:14.264 --> 00:44:14.483
Yeah.

00:44:14.704 --> 00:44:15.333
Absolutely.

00:44:15.943 --> 00:44:21.324
Nicholas, I feel like, I just looked at the clock and I can't believe how much time has already passed by.

00:44:21.324 --> 00:44:23.873
I feel like I could talk to you for hours about this kind of stuff.

00:44:23.873 --> 00:44:24.384
I love it.

00:44:24.943 --> 00:44:27.884
but unfortunately, I know we both got to get back to work.

00:44:27.884 --> 00:44:30.914
So we're going to switch over to our Wayfinder 4.

00:44:31.193 --> 00:44:31.384
Okay.

00:44:31.384 --> 00:44:31.643
All right.

00:44:32.403 --> 00:44:33.724
So, Nick, give us a hack.

00:44:34.764 --> 00:44:35.434
A hack.

00:44:37.548 --> 00:44:41.188
now, as I mentioned, I saw the four questions.

00:44:41.219 --> 00:44:47.539
I decided not to come up with a prescripted answer because I wanted it to be genuine.

00:44:48.068 --> 00:44:49.998
so here, here's what just popped into my head.

00:44:50.358 --> 00:44:51.039
Look into AI.

00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:52.478
That's my hack.

00:44:54.498 --> 00:44:57.748
Everything is, there's a book called life 3.

00:44:57.748 --> 00:44:58.838
I highly recommend it.

00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:02.039
It is, I would call it the Bible of AI.

00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:03.809
It will tell you everything you need to know.

00:45:04.329 --> 00:45:07.909
everybody just thinks killer robots and, chat GPT.

00:45:08.108 --> 00:45:09.949
That is only the tip of the iceberg.

00:45:10.969 --> 00:45:14.139
After you read that book, you'll be able to see below the sea level.

00:45:14.293 --> 00:45:19.634
So in this day and time implement AI everywhere, you can that's my hack.

00:45:20.304 --> 00:45:20.693
Excellent.

00:45:21.153 --> 00:45:27.264
how about a favorite Favorite sport is golf, love golf.

00:45:27.643 --> 00:45:30.543
my favorite show is Outlander.

00:45:31.114 --> 00:45:33.793
and their new season comes out in November.

00:45:33.804 --> 00:45:38.463
So if anybody hasn't seen Outlander, I'd recommend that you watch it.

00:45:38.833 --> 00:45:46.083
I am amazed at how they exceeded the expectation in everything.

00:45:46.523 --> 00:45:55.494
In acting, in script writing, in connections with the characters, in music, in scenery, in costumes.

00:45:55.753 --> 00:45:56.134
Okay.

00:45:56.554 --> 00:45:58.103
So, that's my favorite.

00:45:58.833 --> 00:46:13.083
this woman travels back in time 200 years and, there's a battle between her wanting to return to her own life and accepting her new life, which she's been trapped there for a while.

00:46:13.114 --> 00:46:15.873
So now it's actually her life now.

00:46:16.153 --> 00:46:19.434
So I actually have developed two different lives.

00:46:19.753 --> 00:46:21.273
Which one do I go back to?

00:46:21.634 --> 00:46:22.204
Interesting.

00:46:22.324 --> 00:46:22.764
Okay.

00:46:23.224 --> 00:46:23.943
I have to check it out.

00:46:24.534 --> 00:46:27.054
So how about a piece of advice for your younger self?

00:46:27.514 --> 00:46:27.793
Yeah.

00:46:27.864 --> 00:46:28.813
never stopped learning.

00:46:28.983 --> 00:46:32.244
after I got my, bachelor's, I said, I'm done.

00:46:33.903 --> 00:46:34.813
And I get it.

00:46:34.873 --> 00:46:39.134
I think I probably needed a break, you know, because that was your whole life, right?

00:46:39.184 --> 00:46:44.083
It was finally, I can be like my dad and I don't have to study and do homework anymore.

00:46:44.143 --> 00:46:47.324
I lost, five years.

00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:50.418
of learning and improving myself.

00:46:50.778 --> 00:46:51.938
so never stop learning.

00:46:52.659 --> 00:46:53.119
I love that.

00:46:53.838 --> 00:47:01.458
So what about last one you can choose between a limiting belief or a big opportunity, limiting belief.

00:47:01.458 --> 00:47:06.534
I'll go, you're going to fail and you're going to feel big.

00:47:06.893 --> 00:47:09.434
at certain times it's okay.

00:47:10.224 --> 00:47:15.534
one of the things that, we could all write a book, and I don't mean like the passionate workforce.

00:47:15.713 --> 00:47:20.503
I mean, our lives, our lives have been filled with melancholy and nirvana.

00:47:21.409 --> 00:47:27.789
that's what takes away the woe is me is, I'm not special and I'm not unique.

00:47:28.228 --> 00:47:33.418
And when I suffer and I fail, that is normal.

00:47:33.478 --> 00:47:34.588
That is life.

00:47:34.708 --> 00:47:36.728
That is an opportunity for growth.

00:47:37.179 --> 00:47:39.858
when you're on a hill, enjoy it because you'll soon be in the valley.

00:47:40.179 --> 00:47:41.599
And when you're in a valley, you're in the valley.

00:47:41.728 --> 00:47:42.358
Don't worry.

00:47:42.438 --> 00:47:43.619
You'll be on the hill soon enough.

00:47:43.648 --> 00:47:55.878
As much as you don't believe it, as much as you're, addicted to drugs and alcohol, or you just lost your house or a family member died, you will be back on the hill, believe it or not.

00:47:56.438 --> 00:48:07.179
And so at the end of the day, I would say the most important thing to focus on is peace and love, and the big paradox is stop thinking about yourself.

00:48:07.838 --> 00:48:09.139
focus on other people.

00:48:09.179 --> 00:48:10.938
That's what actually brings happiness.

00:48:11.208 --> 00:48:19.498
The more you try to satisfy yourself, the more you don't, the more you fall into temptation and vice.

00:48:20.338 --> 00:48:29.418
So if you actually focus not on yourself, but on other people, the paradox is you get that peace and love and those blessings.

00:48:30.418 --> 00:48:33.509
Well, Nicholas, thank you again for all of your wisdom.

00:48:33.509 --> 00:48:35.228
I mean, it's been great so far.

00:48:35.228 --> 00:48:41.369
If people want to know more about you and your book, tell us where we can reach you and where we can get your book.

00:48:41.893 --> 00:48:44.134
Yeah, so I have a pretty unique name.

00:48:44.244 --> 00:48:45.813
it's Nicholas Chapman.

00:48:46.054 --> 00:48:48.193
not Chapman, so there's no H.

00:48:48.543 --> 00:48:50.673
so you can find me on LinkedIn.

00:48:50.684 --> 00:48:53.324
That's where I spend most of my time.

00:48:53.664 --> 00:48:57.384
I do have a Facebook, so you can reach out to me there as well.

00:48:57.813 --> 00:49:02.523
in terms of the book, It is sold wherever you can buy books.

00:49:02.534 --> 00:49:08.804
So it comes in hardcover, softcover, electronic and audible.

00:49:09.563 --> 00:49:09.994
Excellent.

00:49:10.344 --> 00:49:18.923
Is the assessment, built into the book or is it something like a, strength finders where you just get a code to an assessment elsewhere No, I created my own assessment.

00:49:18.974 --> 00:49:21.844
Again, it follows the NPS, so it's very easy to implement.

00:49:21.844 --> 00:49:22.943
It's not complicated.

00:49:23.083 --> 00:49:25.574
So you don't need one book per assessment, do you?

00:49:25.625 --> 00:49:25.844
No.

00:49:26.014 --> 00:49:26.824
Oh, okay, good.

00:49:26.875 --> 00:49:27.304
that's what I meant.

00:49:27.525 --> 00:49:31.005
Thanks for being here, Nicholas, and thanks for, sharing, your wisdom with us.

00:49:31.074 --> 00:49:31.945
it's been really great.

00:49:31.994 --> 00:49:32.724
I really enjoyed it.

00:49:32.735 --> 00:49:39.474
I can't believe how fast time flew by and, how much I learned, so I'm sure our audience is gonna feel the same.

00:49:40.184 --> 00:49:41.195
Thank you for that compliment.

00:49:41.545 --> 00:49:42.335
Yeah, thank you.

00:49:42.454 --> 00:49:45.425
And we might have to have you back on to talk about some more of the Pillars.

00:49:45.835 --> 00:49:46.204
Okay.

00:49:46.255 --> 00:49:47.394
I'd be happy to do so.

00:49:47.675 --> 00:49:48.085
Excellent.

00:49:48.114 --> 00:49:48.894
Thank you, Nicholas.

00:49:49.284 --> 00:49:49.570
Thank you.

00:49:54.355 --> 00:49:56.114
We hope you've enjoyed The Wayfinder Show.

00:49:56.264 --> 00:50:00.485
If you got value from this episode, please take a few seconds to leave us a 5 star rating and review.

00:50:00.775 --> 00:50:05.025
This will allow us to help more people find their way to live more authentic and exciting lives.

00:50:05.684 --> 00:50:06.985
We'll catch you on the next episode.