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The Hero's Journey with Brian Gorman
Send us a text Brian is a certified professional coach known for his work as a change catalyst. The discussion spans Gorman’s extensive car…
Dec. 27, 2024
The Hero's Journey with Brian Gorman
Brian is a certified professional coach known for his work as a change catalyst. The discussion spans Gorman’s extensive career from the Civil Rights Movement to organizational change management. Brian shares insights from his chapter, 'The Hero and the Sherpa,' in a collaborative book on transformation, drawing on Joseph Campbell’s hero’s journey. He discusses the importance of creating a 'story from the future,' understanding personal anchors, and adjusting them to support change. The conversation also covers the evolving landscape of work, the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, and the concept of the 'three brains'—head, heart, and gut—in decision-making and leadership.
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Transcript
WEBVTT
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Create your story from the future.
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We all have anchors in our lives.
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Those things that provide us with a sense of stability and security.
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We know what to expect.
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We need to surface those anchors and look at them.
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Are they going to hold us back?
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Are they going to support us in this change journey?
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Do we need to let them go?
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Do we need to change our relationship with them?
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Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that lead them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.
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Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
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Come join us and find the way to your dream life.
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Welcome to The Wayfinder Show.
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I'm your host, Luis Hernandez, and joining us today is Brian Gorman.
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Brian is a certified professional coach and lifelong change catalyst.
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From his early days advocating for change during the Civil Rights Movement and anti Vietnam War protests, Brian has been deeply committed to transformation at personal, organizational, and social levels.
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As the founder of transforminglives.
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coach, he helps clients navigate major life transitions from business owners to organizational leaders.
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Brian is also a TEDx speaker, a Forbes Coaches Council contributor, and a lead author, with a chapter in the book, Personal, Educational, and Organizational Transformation, leading during times of metacrisis.
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Brian, welcome to the Wayfinder Show.
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It's great to be here, Louis.
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Yeah, thank you for being here.
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You know, that book, that we talked, that I mentioned, your chapter is called The Hero and the Sherpa.
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Tell us about that.
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It's a very thought provoking title.
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Well, a couple of things come into the title.
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the first, is Joseph Campbell's hero's journey.
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And for those who don't know Campbell, he was a, mythologist and a psychologist in the mid 1900s.
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And one of his research areas of focus was, is there a common pattern in creation myths over time?
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Is there a common pattern in coming of age myths over time and across cultures and so forth?
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Campbell discovered is that there's one pattern in all myth, and he called it the hero's journey.
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And, and I'm paraphrasing him here, but, um, in essence, he said, well, we approach each change as if it's unique and unpredictable.
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It's not.
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We take the same journey over and over and over again.
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And as you said in the intro, I have been engaged in change in many ways at many levels, for many decades.
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The hero in the Sherpa is my version of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey and lessons I have learned about moving through the change journey over time.
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And for me as a coach, my clients are the heroes.
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They are the ones who are making small and sometimes transformational changes in their lives.
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I'm there as their guide, their Sherpa.
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what are some of those lessons?
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Well, I bring some neuroscience into it.
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So let's start at the beginning.
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And the first thing we need to do is create a story, not about the future, but a story from the future.
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And I always encourage my clients to write that story, to create that story in their own language.
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So it might be words, I've had music, I've had dance, I've had, poetry.
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But we don't want a story, and I'll give you a brief example from one of my clients.
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She and her husband had been laid off.
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They were both in their mid fifties.
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Second marriage, they owned two homes.
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They decided that within five years, they were going to somehow get through this and retire to Costa Rica.
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Now, as you think about this, it was the middle of the housing crisis.
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We have to sell two houses.
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We have to dispose of most of our property.
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We both have adult children living in the United States with grandchildren.
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Neither of us know Spanish.
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So as I talked through that, you know, maybe we should retire and move to Florida, right?
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Instead, the story was, I can't believe we did this.
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And then we woke up this morning.
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In our home, in Costa Rica, ocean breeze is blowing through the windows, we can hear the chatter of Spanish in the streets, we had to sell two houses in the middle of the housing crisis, etc, etc.
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It's a head hard cut story.
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The way our human brain works, as you revisit that story over and over and as you internalize it, you're actually building new neural networks because the human brain doesn't know the difference between story and reality.
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If you think of a great movie that, you know, take a Star Wars movie, you feel it, you feel the emotion as if you are there in the moment.
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And so one of the lessons is create your story from the future.
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we all have anchors in our lives, those things that provide us with a sense of stability and security, we know what to expect.
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We need to surface those anchors and look at them.
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Are they going to hold us back?
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Are they going to support us in this change journey?
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Do we need to let them go?
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Do we need to change our relationship with them?
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I think of people in my neighborhood when I was growing up, when things got tough, some of the grandmothers would start going to mass every day instead of once a week.
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Mass was an anchor for them.
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So we need to be conscious of our anchors as we're preparing for and moving through change.
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Describe more the anchor.
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Like, you're saying them, you're describing them more as something that holds you back or, or supports you.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I see what you're saying.
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I live in Hoboken, New Jersey.
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We're on the Hudson River right across, from, Manhattan, the north and south ends of Hoboken are inlets to the river.
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Our average elevation is seven feet above sea level.
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When Superstorm Sandy came through, I could not leave my apartment building for two days.
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The streets were flooded.
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When I was able to leave, I started walking around the city to really observe the damage and there was substantial damage.
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As I got up toward the northern inlet, people anchor sailboats there.
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On the sidewalk, maybe a quarter mile or so from where it had been anchored, sat a sailboat still attached to its buoy, still attached to its anchor.
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When I got up to the inlet, there were some sailboats just happily bouncing away like nothing had happened.
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And then there were masts sticking out of the water.
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That really is a perfect analogy for anchors.
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Some of them, the owners had made the adjustments necessary.
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And then there were so much that nobody ever found again, by the way.
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Um, so, so.
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They were able to withstand the storm.
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Some of the anchors were not strong enough.
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Some of the anchors were strong enough, but the lines weren't adjusted.
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And so the sailboat sank.
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Our anchors are very personal.
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when COVID hit.
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I started doing anchors workshops on zoom the workshop, I would tell the story I just told, talk to people a little bit about anchors.
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send them into breakout rooms to, discuss with one another what their personal anchors were, come back with debrief, talk about how you need to adjust.
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your relationship with the anchors during things like COVID, when I brought them back in, in this one workshop, this gentleman virtually ran back into the main zoom room.
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He said, now I get it.
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Now I get it.
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And I said, what do you mean?
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He said, I'm a wall street lawyer for the last 10 years, gone into Manhattan every day on the subway.
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COVID hit.
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I started going into my home office.
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I had my computer.
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I had my files.
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I had access to the law firm's, computer system.
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I'd go online and forget why I was online.
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I'd pick up files, look at them and put them down.
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I got nothing done for two weeks.
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And then one day I wasn't really paying attention.
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I put my suit on, went into my home office and I was back in control.
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For him, his suit was an anchor, was part of his identity.
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Yeah.
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I don't even own a suit.
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Yeah.
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And how, how, how do you identify them for yourself?
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How do you identify your anchors?
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What gives you a sense of security?
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What gives you a sense of being in control?
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What gives you a sense of knowing what to expect?
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it is very, very personal.
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And when I'm working with clients, I actually have a template that.
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offers some suggestions in different categories, family, home, job, possessions, hobbies, so forth and so on.
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Wow.
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That's, powerful.
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So you, I imagine you start by working with people to identify them and use them to, become conscious of them.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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And all of that, Louis, going back to your first question is why once we have that story from the future and it can evolve over time, you know, nobody expected COVID.
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So stories had to change, but you're the editor, it's your story.
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You can change it.
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but we don't move right into planning because planning only happens around what we are aware of.
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Anchors is just one of those things that we're not aware of that we may need to plan around.
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So we go from the story from the future to prepare.
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And as we move through that preparation, the planning and the journey actually become sort of this ongoing cycle.
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you seem to do a lot of work thinking about work in the workplace, right?
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Yeah.
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Right.
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is that fair?
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That's very fair.
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most of my clients are, very big corporate leaders from the front line right up to the C suite.
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Okay.
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So I wanted to, a bit about that with you since you seem to be quite the let's start by having a little fun.
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You trademarked a term, the four day work week, and a lot of us, are familiar with, Tim Ferriss's work, kind of put them on a map, right?
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With the four day, four hour work week.
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I assume it was a bit of a play on that.
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Not at all.
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Oh really?
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Not at all.
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And I am co owner of that term.
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Okay.
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a former.
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Business colleague and I actually applied for the trademark in late 2019, and the trademark came in late in March of 2020.
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Nobody was interested in a four day work week at the time.
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They were trying to figure out how to move the workforce from the office into their homes.
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How to keep factories going, while maintaining social distancing and so forth.
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But Tony Carnese and I, Tony is the other co owner of the term, really had done enough work in the workplace to realize that there are all sorts of things that can be done to produce the same end result.
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and so the four day work weekend, even in the trademark application, it's not a literal four days.
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There are some companies that have actually gone to a literal four days.
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Um, there are others that have, and, and we're not talking about 10 hour days now, either.
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There are others that, Have maintained 5 days, but, shorter work days or allow Louie to leave in the mid afternoon.
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So he can attend his children's.
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After school events allow Brian to come in late in the morning so he can take his kids to school.
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the basic contract, and we've actually had some US politicians who have been trying to put four day workweek legislation through, but they're not addressing the basic contract.
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The basic contract should be, you give me the same results in less time and I'll give you the same pay.
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And it's amazing how much.
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more effective people become with their time.
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We work to fill the time.
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Yeah.
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I think the model of getting paid by the hour, sets that tone, right?
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I primarily been a real estate agent.
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Most of my life.
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So I get paid for results, for production.
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I never measure my time in hours a few times I've had corporate jobs that pay by the hour.
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I struggle with that because I can get everything done, but I'm not going to get paid unless I sit there.
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Exactly.
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When COVID first hit, people would say, how can I measure productivity if people aren't in the office?
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Yeah.
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And the answer should be the same way you were measuring it before.
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But all too often the way it was being measured before is, it's 445, it's Louis still sitting at his desk.
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and you develop a huge bureaucracy because of it, You have managers and middle managers whose jobs are just to babysit and make sure that their people are sitting there till 445, Yep.
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And, Till 5 o'clock, Louie.
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Yeah, exactly.
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It's, it's a wild, it's, I, I agree with you.
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You know, and the flip side is, you know, as, as, agents, we, we often, get a pretty bad rep because, you know, a lot of people just don't trust us in the industry, because we are incentivized just to close deals, and sometimes people don't think it's in their best interest, and we're pushing for that.
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But that is the only usually the way we get paid.
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Right.
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And I, I think, um.
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But you know, there, there has to be kind of a, uh, a good mix.
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I think the real professionals who've been doing it for a long time and are in it for the long haul, they do, work with the best interest in mind of, their clients to produce the right results that are right for those clients.
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And ultimately those clients usually feel like, it was a very worthwhile endeavor.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:04.079
Yeah.
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What, I'm curious.
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So along those lines, you've talked about how, We are going through the biggest change in the workplace since the Industrial Revolution.
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Can you talk about that?
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Why?
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What is it looking like?
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What will it look like?
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We can go back before the turn of the century to some of the thought leaders around business and, one that, that.
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I want to just mention here is Peter Drucker, who really is, is often recognized as the father of management consulting.
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And Drucker pointed out that back even into the 1950s and the 1960s, office work was really a, a almost an automaton kind of activity.
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It isn't anymore.
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The value in most organizations now, walks out the door at the end of the day.
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It's in the heads of the workers and their commitment to the organization.
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And nobody really paid attention to that.
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most companies never really paid attention to that.
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And then COVID hit.
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And for all of the terrible things that COVID did, it also served as a catalyst.
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People learned that they didn't really have to.
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And recognized and admitted they didn't really enjoy commuting an hour or two each day, each way to and from work.
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People began to realize that, They really didn't find purpose in the work they were doing.
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People realized that they weren't valued by their, their supervisors, by their companies.
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And so what happens coming out of COVID, we had the great resignation.
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I was just reading before we came online.
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Amazon has now announced that everybody has to be back in the office five days a week.
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A survey of Amazon employees, 73 percent said they are looking for new jobs.
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The workplace has changed.
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People's relationship to work has changed.
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Then we bring in artificial intelligence.
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There is incredible disruption in the workplace, the nature of work, people's relationship to work.
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And, you know, we should know by now, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.
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I have no idea where it's going.
00:20:00.579 --> 00:20:12.859
I think we're only on the early edges of whatever this transformational change in work in the workplace and the worker is going to end up.
00:20:14.250 --> 00:20:28.579
Yeah, in my readings, employers argue they want the employee back in the office, at least to a greater extent than is happening now, maybe not so much as pre COVID.
00:20:29.210 --> 00:20:34.619
and their reasoning is because of the innovation and collaboration.
00:20:35.849 --> 00:20:40.970
The best reason I've seen is the innovation and collaboration is down.
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:43.640
Some will also argue productivity is down.
00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:45.660
Is that a fair argument?
00:20:46.654 --> 00:20:49.625
And if so, well, I think it depends on the company.
00:20:50.724 --> 00:20:55.535
I don't know what the global data would tell us.
00:20:56.535 --> 00:21:01.105
I've, had a number of conversations with a gentleman named Chris DeSantis.
00:21:02.565 --> 00:21:06.474
Chris is the author of a book titled, Why I Find You Irritating.
00:21:07.855 --> 00:21:14.035
And it's a book about intergenerational conflict at work and Chris and I had a conversation about this.
00:21:14.575 --> 00:21:17.884
coming out of COVID into the time of the Great Resignation.
00:21:19.795 --> 00:21:26.035
Chris said a couple of things that I think are important for leaders to reflect on.
00:21:27.035 --> 00:21:28.355
First, he said.
00:21:29.355 --> 00:21:34.015
Because many leaders talk about innovation, many leaders talk about our culture.
00:21:35.015 --> 00:21:46.414
And I asked Chris, I said, what do you say to CEOs who say we need people back in the office because that's how we build and sustain our culture.
00:21:46.634 --> 00:21:49.394
That's how people build and sustain their relationships.
00:21:50.394 --> 00:22:01.734
Chris pointed out that global companies have teams that have worked together for years, globally, without ever meeting.
00:22:02.734 --> 00:22:15.275
They have creative teams that pass the work on around the globe so that it's being developed 24 hours a day by different members of the team in different parts of the world.
00:22:16.275 --> 00:22:34.315
Chris also pointed out that if you ask younger workers, many of them have strong, lifelong relationships that they will maintain with people around the world that they have never met.
00:22:35.315 --> 00:22:38.244
Are there times when it makes sense to bring people together?
00:22:38.734 --> 00:22:39.894
Absolutely.
00:22:41.835 --> 00:22:53.125
But my point of view is the workplace should be someplace we come with a purpose.
00:22:55.065 --> 00:23:01.755
There's a reason Brian and Louie are sitting down face to face today instead of on Zoom.
00:23:02.755 --> 00:23:08.194
If not, why are we spending your time and my time going back and forth?
00:23:10.045 --> 00:23:14.144
I have a good friend who works for a global company.
00:23:15.055 --> 00:23:18.194
there are three of us that get together once a month on zoom.
00:23:19.194 --> 00:23:37.904
One is in Arkansas, one is in Connecticut and I'm here in New Jersey and we got together one month and I said, Karen, you're back in the office because for quite some time she had been in her home office.
00:23:38.750 --> 00:23:42.589
She said, yeah, our CEO said we have to be back in the office.
00:23:42.809 --> 00:23:57.920
So I am, I commuted an hour and a half today to sit in this office and have the same conversations with the same people around the world that I could have had from my home office.
00:23:58.920 --> 00:23:59.930
Why are we doing that?
00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:09.214
So do you believe the argument, you know, being in a real estate space, I'm always thinking about office real estate now.
00:24:09.654 --> 00:24:11.775
there's, you know, it's obviously hurting.
00:24:11.785 --> 00:24:14.204
it's a distressed asset class right now.
00:24:14.904 --> 00:24:18.035
which as an opportunist, I think is very compelling.
00:24:18.045 --> 00:24:19.365
That's why I'm always thinking about it.
00:24:19.954 --> 00:24:25.015
Do you think, the office will come back in any way?
00:24:25.325 --> 00:24:26.615
And if so, how?
00:24:27.615 --> 00:24:30.085
I think we can ask the same question about retail space.
00:24:31.085 --> 00:24:35.634
I mean, there are whole shopping malls that are sitting vacant.
00:24:36.634 --> 00:24:42.944
Well the office was a necessary part of business.
00:24:43.944 --> 00:24:56.224
I don't believe that the office in the form that it had is any longer the necessary part of some business, many businesses.
00:24:56.224 --> 00:24:56.733
Yeah.
00:24:57.733 --> 00:25:03.273
Which form do you think, do you think there is a form that is functional?
00:25:03.273 --> 00:25:03.354
I don't know.
00:25:04.213 --> 00:25:06.814
Or the new business.
00:25:08.723 --> 00:25:11.453
Again, I think it depends on the business, Louis.
00:25:12.453 --> 00:25:15.713
I really think it depends on the business and it, again, it depends on the people.
00:25:16.713 --> 00:25:17.034
Okay.
00:25:17.064 --> 00:25:25.604
You know, I can get online and work with a client through strategy planning session, let's say.
00:25:26.604 --> 00:25:33.153
I have a client in Ottawa who has had to pivot her business.
00:25:35.009 --> 00:25:41.999
The first time when she began working with me about six years ago, it was because she was working seven days a week.
00:25:42.999 --> 00:25:50.189
She was waking up with her email in her hand when she woke up and going to bed the same way.
00:25:51.528 --> 00:26:01.429
she needed to find a way to continue to support her family while also spending time being there with her family.
00:26:02.429 --> 00:26:05.429
But just as she was launching that strategy, COVID hit and she had to.
00:26:05.753 --> 00:26:15.324
Pivot again, and the service that she offers has taken a different form post COVID, and she had to pivot again.
00:26:16.324 --> 00:26:24.034
We have re strategized her business all of those times, and oh, by the way, I've coached her daughter and her son.
00:26:25.034 --> 00:26:25.913
And we have never met.
00:26:26.913 --> 00:26:29.364
We did need an office.
00:26:30.364 --> 00:26:30.804
Yeah.
00:26:31.253 --> 00:26:36.983
You know, if we can compare this to retail again, sorry to push back a little bit here.
00:26:38.074 --> 00:26:38.953
No, go for it.
00:26:39.278 --> 00:26:54.648
Yeah, I see, yes, there are definitely malls around this country that are empty, uh, but if you go back about five years, the retail vacancy around the country in general was much greater, right?
00:26:54.659 --> 00:27:02.019
It's very hard now to find, small retail available spaces in a lot of cities that are thriving, right?
00:27:02.058 --> 00:27:05.679
in ghost cities, you know, cities that are declining you're going to have.
00:27:06.394 --> 00:27:07.534
Vacancies anyways.
00:27:08.253 --> 00:27:10.134
But a lot of them have reinvented themselves.
00:27:10.134 --> 00:27:12.913
Here in Denver, it's hard to find an empty retail space, right?
00:27:12.913 --> 00:27:14.513
And if it is, it's pretty expensive.
00:27:15.064 --> 00:27:17.564
and I know when I travel to other cities, I see the same.
00:27:18.023 --> 00:27:22.374
some of your old malls, I know where I grew up in Rhode Island, there was one in Lincoln.
00:27:22.703 --> 00:27:24.324
I think they shut it down.
00:27:24.933 --> 00:27:27.854
however, they are being rethought.
00:27:28.153 --> 00:27:28.443
Right.
00:27:28.473 --> 00:27:31.594
And redesigned to be much more functional.
00:27:31.693 --> 00:27:32.253
A lot of them.
00:27:32.433 --> 00:27:41.443
So I've seen some designs, are outdoor malls now, you know, so you're not going walking down the hall and they have much more, diverse offerings, right?
00:27:41.443 --> 00:27:42.534
Some of them have housing.
00:27:42.534 --> 00:27:45.503
I know in Florida, they're doing things like this.
00:27:45.503 --> 00:27:46.784
they're including housing.
00:27:47.663 --> 00:27:53.763
they're making it more of an outdoor space, a more entertainment inside, so it's not just a shopping experience.
00:27:54.913 --> 00:27:56.963
I say this to go back to the office.
00:27:56.963 --> 00:28:11.493
I feel, that what we're going through is a change in the way that we're thinking the office and there is a redesign process happening and I don't know what that looks like, but I gave up my office about a year ago.
00:28:11.673 --> 00:28:17.403
I've been working at a home more and, you know, various coffee shops and, you know, living that kind of life.
00:28:17.453 --> 00:28:23.153
And I gotta tell you, I'm, I'm kind of missing an office, you know, and I've started to look again.
00:28:24.564 --> 00:28:35.884
But I don't know if I want, you know, a regular old office with some cubes or, or even just even rooms, you know, I'm not sure what I want, but I think that there is a need for that.
00:28:35.993 --> 00:28:44.044
And then when I go visit coworking spaces, here in Denver, a lot of them have waitlists, you know, so I know I'm not the only one.
00:28:44.844 --> 00:28:48.344
So we all need community.
00:28:49.003 --> 00:28:49.413
Yeah.
00:28:49.973 --> 00:28:53.314
We all need that in person interaction.
00:28:54.314 --> 00:28:57.864
It doesn't have to be driven by the office.
00:28:58.864 --> 00:29:18.173
I think that, you know, the example of repurposing shopping malls and repurposing other kinds of retail spaces is a good example, if you will, of what will most likely happen with office space.
00:29:18.374 --> 00:29:32.284
I know it's happening in New York City now, where what was office space is in some cases being transformed into, hotel and residential space.
00:29:33.683 --> 00:29:37.074
maybe bring some retail in on the ground floor and so forth.
00:29:38.074 --> 00:29:38.534
Yeah.
00:29:38.644 --> 00:29:53.263
let's talk a little bit about, if we could switch gears a little bit, you talk about three brains, thinking with three brains, what are our three brains or what are the three brains?
00:29:54.413 --> 00:29:55.683
Okay, here we go.
00:29:56.683 --> 00:29:57.644
It's head, heart, and gut.
00:29:58.713 --> 00:29:59.384
Let's start there.
00:30:00.384 --> 00:30:04.203
Not every neuroscientist uses the same language.
00:30:05.193 --> 00:30:12.703
Some will talk about the cephalic brain in our head, the cardiac brain in our heart, the enteric brain in our gut.
00:30:13.713 --> 00:30:18.334
Some will talk about, neural networks or neural clusters.
00:30:20.233 --> 00:30:38.263
The bottom line is we have the same motor neurons and sensory neurons in our hearts We have in our heads where what we think of as the brain, the same electrochemical activity as occurs in the brain in our head occurs in our heart.
00:30:39.403 --> 00:30:47.463
In our guts, we have about as many neurons as a cat's brain and they stretch from the esophagus all the way through the digestive tract.
00:30:48.144 --> 00:31:01.544
Again, motor and sensory neurons, again, electrochemical activity, very much like in our heads head, heart, and gut are connected and communicate through the vagus nerve.
00:31:02.544 --> 00:31:08.663
Neuroscientists estimate that about 90 percent of that communication is upward.
00:31:10.523 --> 00:31:19.903
Our gut talking to our, what I like to call sort of our central processing unit in our heads, our heart talking to, our heads.
00:31:20.903 --> 00:31:25.604
Each of these has its own area of expertise.
00:31:26.604 --> 00:31:30.673
In the front of our head, behind our forehead is the prefrontal cortex.
00:31:31.554 --> 00:31:32.794
Prefrontal cortex.
00:31:33.308 --> 00:31:39.118
is the last part of the brain to develop, in him and evolution.
00:31:39.558 --> 00:31:44.888
It's also the last part of the brain to develop in the human fetus.
00:31:45.719 --> 00:31:52.858
The prefrontal cortex is where we do our problem solving, our creative thinking, our, rational thinking, if you will.
00:31:54.519 --> 00:32:01.959
it is not fully integrated into the brain until the late teens or the early twenties, which is why teenagers can do really stupid things.
00:32:02.509 --> 00:32:05.818
They literally don't have the full access to the prefrontal cortex.
00:32:07.719 --> 00:32:12.209
Our hearts, we know what's in our heart.
00:32:12.689 --> 00:32:16.989
Our heart is the Seat of passion, compassion, and values.
00:32:17.989 --> 00:32:19.519
I put my heart into my work.
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:22.028
Some people are heartless.
00:32:23.638 --> 00:32:24.338
There's real.
00:32:24.499 --> 00:32:24.959
It's real.
00:32:24.959 --> 00:32:27.098
It's not just some woo woo thing.
00:32:27.888 --> 00:32:31.159
Our gut is the seat of courage.
00:32:32.159 --> 00:32:33.378
I've got to gut this one out.
00:32:33.648 --> 00:32:34.679
Self protection.
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:37.699
Something doesn't feel right here.
00:32:37.699 --> 00:32:38.638
I can feel it in my gut.
00:32:39.939 --> 00:32:41.338
And who we are at our core.
00:32:43.298 --> 00:32:47.628
So listening to our three brains is important.
00:32:48.608 --> 00:32:49.848
Again, it's not woo woo.
00:32:49.898 --> 00:32:50.459
It's real.
00:32:51.459 --> 00:32:55.469
Going back to the story of the future, that's why you want a head, heart and gut story.
00:32:56.469 --> 00:33:00.679
You want a story that energizes your passion.
00:33:00.679 --> 00:33:12.138
You want a story that excites who you are at your core, not just a story about the future that makes rational sense.
00:33:13.528 --> 00:33:13.548
Yeah.
00:33:14.548 --> 00:33:22.489
And if you think, I'm thinking about some of the best storytellers and visionaries, they do tell it with all three of those heads, right?
00:33:23.489 --> 00:33:43.334
so Brian, we are, right around that time, I think we should get into our wayfinder for, we could, if you could give us a hack that you use every day, this is just kind of something you use to cheat life with, it could be a routine, an app, a habit, you know.
00:33:44.334 --> 00:33:46.314
people aren't going to be able to see it, but I'm pulling it out.
00:33:47.983 --> 00:33:49.203
My story from the future.
00:33:50.544 --> 00:33:50.953
Okay.
00:33:51.953 --> 00:33:56.923
do you have a model that you use like, you know, Cam Harold, Cam Harold, I believe it was.
00:33:56.933 --> 00:34:01.753
He wrote a good book, The Vivid Vision, walks you through creating that.
00:34:01.763 --> 00:34:06.624
Do you have one, you know, that you recommend and how people can go about that?
00:34:08.403 --> 00:34:16.103
I really plant the seeds and nurture them with my coaching itself, it becomes a very different process.
00:34:16.103 --> 00:34:17.673
It's true.
00:34:17.728 --> 00:34:23.518
what I would say is repeating what I said before.
00:34:23.518 --> 00:34:26.318
First of all, you don't have to know what's going to happen.
00:34:27.318 --> 00:34:34.639
Circumstances outside of you can change and you, you can edit it, but you also don't have to know every detail.
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:42.739
I had one client that all she could tell when we started was these are the kinds of people I want to work with.
00:34:44.188 --> 00:34:47.438
These are the kinds of clients I want to serve.
00:34:48.653 --> 00:34:51.023
And I want to be known for my signature red jacket.
00:34:52.023 --> 00:34:56.293
That was enough for her to create the first version of her story.
00:34:57.293 --> 00:34:57.713
Okay.
00:34:57.884 --> 00:35:00.893
And then just read it every day or regularly?
00:35:02.003 --> 00:35:07.094
And as she, all's we need to know is what is the first step to take.
00:35:07.643 --> 00:35:08.003
Yeah.
00:35:09.003 --> 00:35:12.483
And as she took more steps, she filled in the story.
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.188
And she moved toward that future.
00:35:16.188 --> 00:35:17.219
How about a favorite?
00:35:18.248 --> 00:35:23.588
It could be, you know, a book, movie, something you like, you know.
00:35:24.588 --> 00:35:25.438
A favorite anything?
00:35:25.798 --> 00:35:26.248
Yeah.
00:35:27.099 --> 00:35:27.588
My son.
00:35:28.878 --> 00:35:29.259
Yeah.
00:35:30.259 --> 00:35:30.719
Beautiful.
00:35:31.489 --> 00:35:36.849
And I, I think I've, I heard, on another podcast you were on, you, you became a father late in life, right?
00:35:37.228 --> 00:35:38.688
That was a pretty fascinating story, actually.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:39.838
I did.
00:35:39.878 --> 00:35:40.338
I did.
00:35:41.648 --> 00:35:51.659
in 2009, I got an email that said, I'm a high school sophomore in Massachusetts, studying photography.
00:35:52.389 --> 00:35:57.458
Our assignment is to write the biography and photograph in the style of our favorite photographer.
00:35:57.898 --> 00:36:01.329
I Googled gay photographers and you're my favorite, may I interview you?
00:36:02.329 --> 00:36:03.498
My ego said yes.
00:36:03.574 --> 00:36:08.753
I, I got on the phone with Brandon and he was incredibly well prepared.
00:36:09.554 --> 00:36:12.543
one of the questions he asked me was, how did you come to your photography?
00:36:12.543 --> 00:36:26.153
So I told him my story and I turned the question back to him and he said, it's way to see a world outside the abuse I experienced at home every day and the assaults I suffer at school on a regular basis.
00:36:27.853 --> 00:36:30.344
And I could not say, I hope you get a good grade.
00:36:32.313 --> 00:36:33.974
So I offered to stay in touch.
00:36:34.474 --> 00:36:35.244
And we did.
00:36:35.614 --> 00:36:36.753
his parents were divorced.
00:36:36.753 --> 00:36:39.893
He was living with his birth mother.
00:36:40.353 --> 00:36:54.003
Who was not happy having a gay son and she got me involved in helping him prepare for his SATs, doing college applications, scholarship applications, campus visits.
00:36:54.684 --> 00:36:57.903
Three months before he graduated high school, she threw him out.
00:36:58.934 --> 00:36:59.353
Wow.
00:37:01.213 --> 00:37:03.623
And he called me.
00:37:05.063 --> 00:37:16.514
And I showed, showed up for him, drove up to Massachusetts, met with his school, found a place to live, until he graduated and then he moved down with me.
00:37:16.684 --> 00:37:17.443
I adopted him.
00:37:18.003 --> 00:37:22.094
he graduated from the new school with a 3.
00:37:22.094 --> 00:37:25.784
9 GPA, so he didn't get thrown out because he was a bad kid.
00:37:26.784 --> 00:37:27.164
Wow.
00:37:28.764 --> 00:37:29.423
That's powerful.
00:37:30.423 --> 00:37:32.994
What about a piece of advice for your younger self?
00:37:33.994 --> 00:37:34.793
Be true to you.
00:37:35.793 --> 00:37:36.483
Be true to you.
00:37:37.483 --> 00:37:37.873
Say more.
00:37:37.884 --> 00:37:38.744
It was very hard.
00:37:39.744 --> 00:37:41.184
I was born in 1949.
00:37:42.153 --> 00:37:47.824
By the time I was a teenager, I knew I was not interested in the girls in my class.
00:37:48.824 --> 00:37:57.184
And in the 1960s, you certainly weren't open about being interested in people of the same sex as you.
00:37:58.184 --> 00:38:17.204
And it took me to the age of 31, which was several years after the American Psychiatric Association let go of defining homosexuality as a mental disease, before I was finally able to be true to myself.
00:38:18.204 --> 00:38:22.134
I don't regret not having done so.
00:38:23.273 --> 00:38:30.653
Earlier, and I was true to myself in just about every other way.
00:38:31.653 --> 00:38:32.123
Okay.
00:38:32.653 --> 00:38:37.804
What about a big opportunity or a limiting belief you choose?
00:38:38.804 --> 00:38:41.684
And I purposely leave that very vague.
00:38:42.914 --> 00:38:50.414
Uh, I think a big opportunity for me is always, meeting new prospective clients.
00:38:51.414 --> 00:38:53.523
Coaching is a way for me to pay it forward.
00:38:54.523 --> 00:39:03.324
As you know, I host a podcast of, now had over a hundred episodes of conversations.
00:39:04.324 --> 00:39:12.474
I'm about to turn 75 and I'm still learning, but I also have a lot of learning under my belt.
00:39:13.793 --> 00:39:23.614
And so coaching is a way, you know, I'm working with a CEO of a literally a billion dollar corporation in New York right now, who was not prepared.
00:39:23.614 --> 00:39:34.634
So, for the position and it's my way of helping others find their way through the challenges and the opportunities that they face.
00:39:36.023 --> 00:39:40.204
So every time I meet a prospective new client, it's a big opportunity.
00:39:40.273 --> 00:39:42.034
It's a chance to make a difference.
00:39:42.773 --> 00:39:48.114
And when you make a difference in one person's life, you make a difference in all the lives that they touch as well.
00:39:48.733 --> 00:39:49.043
Right.
00:39:49.474 --> 00:39:53.923
And it sounds like a lot of your clients are people who are touching a lot of lives too.
00:39:53.923 --> 00:39:56.123
So you're having quite an impact, right?
00:39:56.125 --> 00:39:56.534
Yeah.
00:39:57.313 --> 00:39:57.574
Yeah.
00:39:57.583 --> 00:39:57.773
Yep.
00:39:58.914 --> 00:40:03.983
So, Brian, tell us more about your podcast and if people want to know more about you, where can they find you?
00:40:05.114 --> 00:40:08.434
So the podcast is Conversations, spelled with a Q.
00:40:09.253 --> 00:40:19.733
it is hosted by me and, done for the company Quantavos, which is, one of my clients.
00:40:20.114 --> 00:40:22.693
I'm, their vice president for program development.
00:40:23.693 --> 00:40:27.244
they are a professional development firm with coaching at its core.
00:40:27.434 --> 00:40:29.423
Quantabose means choose to be your best.
00:40:30.634 --> 00:40:35.903
And, so conversations, it's on the Quantabose website.
00:40:35.903 --> 00:40:42.793
It's also on Apple, Google, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, Spotify, Podchase, or a number of other podcast platforms.
00:40:43.653 --> 00:40:49.494
and in two weeks, this guy named Louis Hernandez is going to be, our guest on conversations.
00:40:49.923 --> 00:40:50.503
I heard he's outstanding.
00:40:50.505 --> 00:40:52.215
we recorded a little while ago.
00:40:52.764 --> 00:40:55.195
every week we bring thought leaders.
00:40:56.454 --> 00:40:57.985
they might be book authors.
00:40:57.985 --> 00:41:13.130
two weeks ago, we released an episode with a, retired Navy SEAL commander who then became very successful in business, sharing His perspective on, how important visioning is for leaders.
00:41:13.230 --> 00:41:15.099
so anyway, that's conversations.
00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:19.690
my website, my business is transforming lives.
00:41:19.949 --> 00:41:20.460
coach.
00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:27.190
And I actually am just in the process that, totally replacing the website.
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:35.800
The copy is now with, the editor before we go into website design, but, you can reach me through there.
00:41:37.014 --> 00:41:45.184
To set up a time, there's a link on the homepage, or you can email me at brian at transforminglives.
00:41:45.224 --> 00:41:46.885
coach and that's B R I A N.
00:41:47.885 --> 00:41:48.565
Thank you, Brian.
00:41:48.704 --> 00:41:49.474
this has been great.
00:41:49.925 --> 00:41:54.585
And, I hope people check out your podcast, especially in a couple of weeks when you have that guy on.
00:41:56.315 --> 00:41:58.864
well, by the time this one comes out, it'll already have come out.
00:41:58.864 --> 00:42:03.925
I really enjoyed getting to know you more from that podcast recording as well as this one.
00:42:04.585 --> 00:42:07.284
we have very thought provoking conversations and I really enjoy that.
00:42:07.425 --> 00:42:08.974
So thank you for being here.
00:42:10.135 --> 00:42:11.175
for the opportunity, Louie.
00:42:16.945 --> 00:42:18.704
We hope you've enjoyed The Wayfinder Show.
00:42:18.855 --> 00:42:23.074
If you got value from this episode, please take a few seconds to leave us a 5 star rating and review.
00:42:23.364 --> 00:42:27.614
This will allow us to help more people find their way to live more authentic and exciting lives.
00:42:28.275 --> 00:42:29.574
We'll catch you on the next episode.
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.469
Create your story from the future.
00:00:01.510 --> 00:00:03.209
We all have anchors in our lives.
00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:07.000
Those things that provide us with a sense of stability and security.
00:00:07.969 --> 00:00:09.320
We know what to expect.
00:00:09.390 --> 00:00:11.990
We need to surface those anchors and look at them.
00:00:12.050 --> 00:00:13.310
Are they going to hold us back?
00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:15.589
Are they going to support us in this change journey?
00:00:15.619 --> 00:00:16.640
Do we need to let them go?
00:00:16.660 --> 00:00:19.559
Do we need to change our relationship with them?
00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:41.280
Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that lead them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.
00:00:42.340 --> 00:00:50.259
Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
00:00:51.549 --> 00:00:54.200
Come join us and find the way to your dream life.
00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:03.759
Welcome to The Wayfinder Show.
00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:07.429
I'm your host, Luis Hernandez, and joining us today is Brian Gorman.
00:01:07.909 --> 00:01:11.789
Brian is a certified professional coach and lifelong change catalyst.
00:01:12.259 --> 00:01:24.799
From his early days advocating for change during the Civil Rights Movement and anti Vietnam War protests, Brian has been deeply committed to transformation at personal, organizational, and social levels.
00:01:25.694 --> 00:01:28.013
As the founder of transforminglives.
00:01:28.063 --> 00:01:35.343
coach, he helps clients navigate major life transitions from business owners to organizational leaders.
00:01:36.123 --> 00:01:52.183
Brian is also a TEDx speaker, a Forbes Coaches Council contributor, and a lead author, with a chapter in the book, Personal, Educational, and Organizational Transformation, leading during times of metacrisis.
00:01:53.653 --> 00:01:55.213
Brian, welcome to the Wayfinder Show.
00:01:55.959 --> 00:01:57.248
It's great to be here, Louis.
00:01:57.879 --> 00:01:59.368
Yeah, thank you for being here.
00:01:59.739 --> 00:02:06.049
You know, that book, that we talked, that I mentioned, your chapter is called The Hero and the Sherpa.
00:02:07.138 --> 00:02:07.858
Tell us about that.
00:02:07.858 --> 00:02:09.919
It's a very thought provoking title.
00:02:10.019 --> 00:02:15.098
Well, a couple of things come into the title.
00:02:15.989 --> 00:02:19.364
the first, is Joseph Campbell's hero's journey.
00:02:20.334 --> 00:02:30.324
And for those who don't know Campbell, he was a, mythologist and a psychologist in the mid 1900s.
00:02:31.824 --> 00:02:43.903
And one of his research areas of focus was, is there a common pattern in creation myths over time?
00:02:43.903 --> 00:02:48.943
Is there a common pattern in coming of age myths over time and across cultures and so forth?
00:02:49.943 --> 00:02:55.294
Campbell discovered is that there's one pattern in all myth, and he called it the hero's journey.
00:02:56.343 --> 00:03:06.403
And, and I'm paraphrasing him here, but, um, in essence, he said, well, we approach each change as if it's unique and unpredictable.
00:03:06.443 --> 00:03:07.123
It's not.
00:03:07.864 --> 00:03:10.574
We take the same journey over and over and over again.
00:03:11.604 --> 00:03:20.204
And as you said in the intro, I have been engaged in change in many ways at many levels, for many decades.
00:03:21.604 --> 00:03:34.593
The hero in the Sherpa is my version of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey and lessons I have learned about moving through the change journey over time.
00:03:36.104 --> 00:03:40.623
And for me as a coach, my clients are the heroes.
00:03:40.633 --> 00:03:47.204
They are the ones who are making small and sometimes transformational changes in their lives.
00:03:47.774 --> 00:03:49.753
I'm there as their guide, their Sherpa.
00:03:50.674 --> 00:03:52.014
what are some of those lessons?
00:03:53.014 --> 00:03:56.123
Well, I bring some neuroscience into it.
00:03:56.503 --> 00:03:58.223
So let's start at the beginning.
00:03:59.283 --> 00:04:07.894
And the first thing we need to do is create a story, not about the future, but a story from the future.
00:04:09.324 --> 00:04:16.824
And I always encourage my clients to write that story, to create that story in their own language.
00:04:16.824 --> 00:04:22.074
So it might be words, I've had music, I've had dance, I've had, poetry.
00:04:23.074 --> 00:04:27.913
But we don't want a story, and I'll give you a brief example from one of my clients.
00:04:29.574 --> 00:04:33.394
She and her husband had been laid off.
00:04:33.803 --> 00:04:35.324
They were both in their mid fifties.
00:04:36.173 --> 00:04:38.954
Second marriage, they owned two homes.
00:04:40.119 --> 00:04:46.999
They decided that within five years, they were going to somehow get through this and retire to Costa Rica.
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Now, as you think about this, it was the middle of the housing crisis.
00:04:53.059 --> 00:04:54.749
We have to sell two houses.
00:04:55.629 --> 00:04:57.939
We have to dispose of most of our property.
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We both have adult children living in the United States with grandchildren.
00:05:05.028 --> 00:05:07.259
Neither of us know Spanish.
00:05:08.899 --> 00:05:16.949
So as I talked through that, you know, maybe we should retire and move to Florida, right?
00:05:18.949 --> 00:05:23.939
Instead, the story was, I can't believe we did this.
00:05:25.598 --> 00:05:27.848
And then we woke up this morning.
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In our home, in Costa Rica, ocean breeze is blowing through the windows, we can hear the chatter of Spanish in the streets, we had to sell two houses in the middle of the housing crisis, etc, etc.
00:05:41.829 --> 00:05:43.269
It's a head hard cut story.
00:05:44.269 --> 00:05:59.579
The way our human brain works, as you revisit that story over and over and as you internalize it, you're actually building new neural networks because the human brain doesn't know the difference between story and reality.
00:06:01.473 --> 00:06:11.584
If you think of a great movie that, you know, take a Star Wars movie, you feel it, you feel the emotion as if you are there in the moment.
00:06:13.204 --> 00:06:18.673
And so one of the lessons is create your story from the future.
00:06:19.673 --> 00:06:27.553
we all have anchors in our lives, those things that provide us with a sense of stability and security, we know what to expect.
00:06:28.553 --> 00:06:31.194
We need to surface those anchors and look at them.
00:06:33.163 --> 00:06:34.434
Are they going to hold us back?
00:06:34.444 --> 00:06:36.754
Are they going to support us in this change journey?
00:06:38.353 --> 00:06:39.363
Do we need to let them go?
00:06:39.394 --> 00:06:42.184
Do we need to change our relationship with them?
00:06:42.704 --> 00:06:54.074
I think of people in my neighborhood when I was growing up, when things got tough, some of the grandmothers would start going to mass every day instead of once a week.
00:06:55.444 --> 00:06:56.653
Mass was an anchor for them.
00:06:58.293 --> 00:07:04.173
So we need to be conscious of our anchors as we're preparing for and moving through change.
00:07:05.173 --> 00:07:08.713
Describe more the anchor.
00:07:08.744 --> 00:07:16.343
Like, you're saying them, you're describing them more as something that holds you back or, or supports you.
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Yes.
00:07:18.704 --> 00:07:19.223
Yes.
00:07:20.663 --> 00:07:21.014
Yeah.
00:07:21.014 --> 00:07:21.413
Yeah.
00:07:21.413 --> 00:07:21.713
Yeah.
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I see what you're saying.
00:07:22.194 --> 00:07:24.423
I live in Hoboken, New Jersey.
00:07:25.403 --> 00:07:34.353
We're on the Hudson River right across, from, Manhattan, the north and south ends of Hoboken are inlets to the river.
00:07:35.754 --> 00:07:38.564
Our average elevation is seven feet above sea level.
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When Superstorm Sandy came through, I could not leave my apartment building for two days.
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The streets were flooded.
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When I was able to leave, I started walking around the city to really observe the damage and there was substantial damage.
00:07:57.834 --> 00:08:02.934
As I got up toward the northern inlet, people anchor sailboats there.
00:08:04.908 --> 00:08:15.569
On the sidewalk, maybe a quarter mile or so from where it had been anchored, sat a sailboat still attached to its buoy, still attached to its anchor.
00:08:17.149 --> 00:08:23.649
When I got up to the inlet, there were some sailboats just happily bouncing away like nothing had happened.
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And then there were masts sticking out of the water.
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That really is a perfect analogy for anchors.
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Some of them, the owners had made the adjustments necessary.
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And then there were so much that nobody ever found again, by the way.
00:08:42.109 --> 00:08:44.119
Um, so, so.
00:08:45.283 --> 00:08:47.553
They were able to withstand the storm.
00:08:48.033 --> 00:08:50.573
Some of the anchors were not strong enough.
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Some of the anchors were strong enough, but the lines weren't adjusted.
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And so the sailboat sank.
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Our anchors are very personal.
00:09:03.793 --> 00:09:04.803
when COVID hit.
00:09:05.528 --> 00:09:16.198
I started doing anchors workshops on zoom the workshop, I would tell the story I just told, talk to people a little bit about anchors.
00:09:16.198 --> 00:09:26.548
send them into breakout rooms to, discuss with one another what their personal anchors were, come back with debrief, talk about how you need to adjust.
00:09:27.033 --> 00:09:39.994
your relationship with the anchors during things like COVID, when I brought them back in, in this one workshop, this gentleman virtually ran back into the main zoom room.
00:09:40.293 --> 00:09:41.293
He said, now I get it.
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Now I get it.
00:09:43.394 --> 00:09:45.614
And I said, what do you mean?
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He said, I'm a wall street lawyer for the last 10 years, gone into Manhattan every day on the subway.
00:09:56.453 --> 00:09:57.053
COVID hit.
00:09:57.913 --> 00:10:00.124
I started going into my home office.
00:10:00.703 --> 00:10:01.683
I had my computer.
00:10:01.683 --> 00:10:02.553
I had my files.
00:10:02.553 --> 00:10:06.203
I had access to the law firm's, computer system.
00:10:07.673 --> 00:10:10.024
I'd go online and forget why I was online.
00:10:10.073 --> 00:10:12.394
I'd pick up files, look at them and put them down.
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I got nothing done for two weeks.
00:10:17.984 --> 00:10:19.943
And then one day I wasn't really paying attention.
00:10:19.953 --> 00:10:24.303
I put my suit on, went into my home office and I was back in control.
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For him, his suit was an anchor, was part of his identity.
00:10:29.594 --> 00:10:30.004
Yeah.
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I don't even own a suit.
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Yeah.
00:10:33.543 --> 00:10:37.504
And how, how, how do you identify them for yourself?
00:10:39.063 --> 00:10:40.553
How do you identify your anchors?
00:10:40.703 --> 00:10:45.313
What gives you a sense of security?
00:10:45.374 --> 00:10:48.714
What gives you a sense of being in control?
00:10:48.724 --> 00:10:51.474
What gives you a sense of knowing what to expect?
00:10:52.474 --> 00:10:54.364
it is very, very personal.
00:10:55.394 --> 00:10:58.384
And when I'm working with clients, I actually have a template that.
00:10:59.083 --> 00:11:10.144
offers some suggestions in different categories, family, home, job, possessions, hobbies, so forth and so on.
00:11:11.144 --> 00:11:11.384
Wow.
00:11:11.384 --> 00:11:12.344
That's, powerful.
00:11:12.354 --> 00:11:18.443
So you, I imagine you start by working with people to identify them and use them to, become conscious of them.
00:11:18.903 --> 00:11:19.244
Yeah.
00:11:19.374 --> 00:11:20.254
Absolutely.
00:11:20.563 --> 00:11:34.063
And all of that, Louis, going back to your first question is why once we have that story from the future and it can evolve over time, you know, nobody expected COVID.
00:11:34.134 --> 00:11:39.734
So stories had to change, but you're the editor, it's your story.
00:11:39.744 --> 00:11:40.583
You can change it.
00:11:41.303 --> 00:11:49.163
but we don't move right into planning because planning only happens around what we are aware of.
00:11:50.178 --> 00:11:55.249
Anchors is just one of those things that we're not aware of that we may need to plan around.
00:11:56.239 --> 00:11:59.528
So we go from the story from the future to prepare.
00:12:00.239 --> 00:12:09.349
And as we move through that preparation, the planning and the journey actually become sort of this ongoing cycle.
00:12:10.349 --> 00:12:16.239
you seem to do a lot of work thinking about work in the workplace, right?
00:12:16.239 --> 00:12:16.639
Yeah.
00:12:18.028 --> 00:12:18.389
Right.
00:12:18.558 --> 00:12:19.168
is that fair?
00:12:19.734 --> 00:12:20.894
That's very fair.
00:12:21.073 --> 00:12:26.803
most of my clients are, very big corporate leaders from the front line right up to the C suite.
00:12:27.803 --> 00:12:28.163
Okay.
00:12:28.673 --> 00:12:35.438
So I wanted to, a bit about that with you since you seem to be quite the let's start by having a little fun.
00:12:35.438 --> 00:12:43.428
You trademarked a term, the four day work week, and a lot of us, are familiar with, Tim Ferriss's work, kind of put them on a map, right?
00:12:43.428 --> 00:12:45.769
With the four day, four hour work week.
00:12:46.798 --> 00:12:48.979
I assume it was a bit of a play on that.
00:12:49.808 --> 00:12:50.599
Not at all.
00:12:50.798 --> 00:12:51.349
Oh really?
00:12:51.599 --> 00:12:52.568
Not at all.
00:12:52.568 --> 00:12:55.089
And I am co owner of that term.
00:12:55.090 --> 00:12:55.408
Okay.
00:12:55.469 --> 00:12:56.178
a former.
00:12:56.969 --> 00:13:09.958
Business colleague and I actually applied for the trademark in late 2019, and the trademark came in late in March of 2020.
00:13:10.958 --> 00:13:13.769
Nobody was interested in a four day work week at the time.
00:13:14.489 --> 00:13:21.379
They were trying to figure out how to move the workforce from the office into their homes.
00:13:22.323 --> 00:13:28.433
How to keep factories going, while maintaining social distancing and so forth.
00:13:29.033 --> 00:13:50.943
But Tony Carnese and I, Tony is the other co owner of the term, really had done enough work in the workplace to realize that there are all sorts of things that can be done to produce the same end result.
00:13:52.720 --> 00:14:01.070
and so the four day work weekend, even in the trademark application, it's not a literal four days.
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:07.200
There are some companies that have actually gone to a literal four days.
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:14.169
Um, there are others that have, and, and we're not talking about 10 hour days now, either.
00:14:14.750 --> 00:14:27.480
There are others that, Have maintained 5 days, but, shorter work days or allow Louie to leave in the mid afternoon.
00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:31.340
So he can attend his children's.
00:14:32.254 --> 00:14:38.014
After school events allow Brian to come in late in the morning so he can take his kids to school.
00:14:39.174 --> 00:14:52.865
the basic contract, and we've actually had some US politicians who have been trying to put four day workweek legislation through, but they're not addressing the basic contract.
00:14:52.865 --> 00:15:02.945
The basic contract should be, you give me the same results in less time and I'll give you the same pay.
00:15:03.945 --> 00:15:08.485
And it's amazing how much.
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:13.039
more effective people become with their time.
00:15:13.370 --> 00:15:14.610
We work to fill the time.
00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:16.129
Yeah.
00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:22.000
I think the model of getting paid by the hour, sets that tone, right?
00:15:22.049 --> 00:15:24.919
I primarily been a real estate agent.
00:15:25.024 --> 00:15:25.825
Most of my life.
00:15:25.825 --> 00:15:28.715
So I get paid for results, for production.
00:15:29.154 --> 00:15:34.225
I never measure my time in hours a few times I've had corporate jobs that pay by the hour.
00:15:34.225 --> 00:15:40.725
I struggle with that because I can get everything done, but I'm not going to get paid unless I sit there.
00:15:41.575 --> 00:15:42.595
Exactly.
00:15:42.835 --> 00:15:48.995
When COVID first hit, people would say, how can I measure productivity if people aren't in the office?
00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:49.899
Yeah.
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:55.129
And the answer should be the same way you were measuring it before.
00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:03.470
But all too often the way it was being measured before is, it's 445, it's Louis still sitting at his desk.
00:16:04.470 --> 00:16:13.299
and you develop a huge bureaucracy because of it, You have managers and middle managers whose jobs are just to babysit and make sure that their people are sitting there till 445, Yep.
00:16:13.389 --> 00:16:14.639
And, Till 5 o'clock, Louie.
00:16:15.070 --> 00:16:16.190
Yeah, exactly.
00:16:17.745 --> 00:16:20.804
It's, it's a wild, it's, I, I agree with you.
00:16:21.105 --> 00:16:34.644
You know, and the flip side is, you know, as, as, agents, we, we often, get a pretty bad rep because, you know, a lot of people just don't trust us in the industry, because we are incentivized just to close deals, and sometimes people don't think it's in their best interest, and we're pushing for that.
00:16:34.644 --> 00:16:37.475
But that is the only usually the way we get paid.
00:16:37.475 --> 00:16:37.745
Right.
00:16:37.745 --> 00:16:38.945
And I, I think, um.
00:16:39.789 --> 00:16:44.259
But you know, there, there has to be kind of a, uh, a good mix.
00:16:44.259 --> 00:16:56.240
I think the real professionals who've been doing it for a long time and are in it for the long haul, they do, work with the best interest in mind of, their clients to produce the right results that are right for those clients.
00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:01.799
And ultimately those clients usually feel like, it was a very worthwhile endeavor.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:04.079
Yeah.
00:17:04.789 --> 00:17:05.670
What, I'm curious.
00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:14.710
So along those lines, you've talked about how, We are going through the biggest change in the workplace since the Industrial Revolution.
00:17:16.339 --> 00:17:17.420
Can you talk about that?
00:17:17.430 --> 00:17:17.950
Why?
00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:19.069
What is it looking like?
00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:20.369
What will it look like?
00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:32.538
We can go back before the turn of the century to some of the thought leaders around business and, one that, that.
00:17:33.750 --> 00:17:41.819
I want to just mention here is Peter Drucker, who really is, is often recognized as the father of management consulting.
00:17:43.720 --> 00:18:01.170
And Drucker pointed out that back even into the 1950s and the 1960s, office work was really a, a almost an automaton kind of activity.
00:18:02.170 --> 00:18:03.529
It isn't anymore.
00:18:04.529 --> 00:18:10.730
The value in most organizations now, walks out the door at the end of the day.
00:18:12.130 --> 00:18:15.740
It's in the heads of the workers and their commitment to the organization.
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:20.130
And nobody really paid attention to that.
00:18:20.140 --> 00:18:23.480
most companies never really paid attention to that.
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:24.940
And then COVID hit.
00:18:26.900 --> 00:18:35.809
And for all of the terrible things that COVID did, it also served as a catalyst.
00:18:36.809 --> 00:18:41.430
People learned that they didn't really have to.
00:18:42.595 --> 00:18:50.904
And recognized and admitted they didn't really enjoy commuting an hour or two each day, each way to and from work.
00:18:52.555 --> 00:18:59.305
People began to realize that, They really didn't find purpose in the work they were doing.
00:18:59.305 --> 00:19:07.654
People realized that they weren't valued by their, their supervisors, by their companies.
00:19:08.394 --> 00:19:14.154
And so what happens coming out of COVID, we had the great resignation.
00:19:15.154 --> 00:19:17.214
I was just reading before we came online.
00:19:17.234 --> 00:19:22.654
Amazon has now announced that everybody has to be back in the office five days a week.
00:19:23.835 --> 00:19:30.335
A survey of Amazon employees, 73 percent said they are looking for new jobs.
00:19:31.525 --> 00:19:33.105
The workplace has changed.
00:19:33.144 --> 00:19:35.565
People's relationship to work has changed.
00:19:36.565 --> 00:19:39.085
Then we bring in artificial intelligence.
00:19:40.085 --> 00:19:49.684
There is incredible disruption in the workplace, the nature of work, people's relationship to work.
00:19:50.724 --> 00:19:55.664
And, you know, we should know by now, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.
00:19:57.529 --> 00:19:59.509
I have no idea where it's going.
00:20:00.579 --> 00:20:12.859
I think we're only on the early edges of whatever this transformational change in work in the workplace and the worker is going to end up.
00:20:14.250 --> 00:20:28.579
Yeah, in my readings, employers argue they want the employee back in the office, at least to a greater extent than is happening now, maybe not so much as pre COVID.
00:20:29.210 --> 00:20:34.619
and their reasoning is because of the innovation and collaboration.
00:20:35.849 --> 00:20:40.970
The best reason I've seen is the innovation and collaboration is down.
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:43.640
Some will also argue productivity is down.
00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:45.660
Is that a fair argument?
00:20:46.654 --> 00:20:49.625
And if so, well, I think it depends on the company.
00:20:50.724 --> 00:20:55.535
I don't know what the global data would tell us.
00:20:56.535 --> 00:21:01.105
I've, had a number of conversations with a gentleman named Chris DeSantis.
00:21:02.565 --> 00:21:06.474
Chris is the author of a book titled, Why I Find You Irritating.
00:21:07.855 --> 00:21:14.035
And it's a book about intergenerational conflict at work and Chris and I had a conversation about this.
00:21:14.575 --> 00:21:17.884
coming out of COVID into the time of the Great Resignation.
00:21:19.795 --> 00:21:26.035
Chris said a couple of things that I think are important for leaders to reflect on.
00:21:27.035 --> 00:21:28.355
First, he said.
00:21:29.355 --> 00:21:34.015
Because many leaders talk about innovation, many leaders talk about our culture.
00:21:35.015 --> 00:21:46.414
And I asked Chris, I said, what do you say to CEOs who say we need people back in the office because that's how we build and sustain our culture.
00:21:46.634 --> 00:21:49.394
That's how people build and sustain their relationships.
00:21:50.394 --> 00:22:01.734
Chris pointed out that global companies have teams that have worked together for years, globally, without ever meeting.
00:22:02.734 --> 00:22:15.275
They have creative teams that pass the work on around the globe so that it's being developed 24 hours a day by different members of the team in different parts of the world.
00:22:16.275 --> 00:22:34.315
Chris also pointed out that if you ask younger workers, many of them have strong, lifelong relationships that they will maintain with people around the world that they have never met.
00:22:35.315 --> 00:22:38.244
Are there times when it makes sense to bring people together?
00:22:38.734 --> 00:22:39.894
Absolutely.
00:22:41.835 --> 00:22:53.125
But my point of view is the workplace should be someplace we come with a purpose.
00:22:55.065 --> 00:23:01.755
There's a reason Brian and Louie are sitting down face to face today instead of on Zoom.
00:23:02.755 --> 00:23:08.194
If not, why are we spending your time and my time going back and forth?
00:23:10.045 --> 00:23:14.144
I have a good friend who works for a global company.
00:23:15.055 --> 00:23:18.194
there are three of us that get together once a month on zoom.
00:23:19.194 --> 00:23:37.904
One is in Arkansas, one is in Connecticut and I'm here in New Jersey and we got together one month and I said, Karen, you're back in the office because for quite some time she had been in her home office.
00:23:38.750 --> 00:23:42.589
She said, yeah, our CEO said we have to be back in the office.
00:23:42.809 --> 00:23:57.920
So I am, I commuted an hour and a half today to sit in this office and have the same conversations with the same people around the world that I could have had from my home office.
00:23:58.920 --> 00:23:59.930
Why are we doing that?
00:24:00.930 --> 00:24:09.214
So do you believe the argument, you know, being in a real estate space, I'm always thinking about office real estate now.
00:24:09.654 --> 00:24:11.775
there's, you know, it's obviously hurting.
00:24:11.785 --> 00:24:14.204
it's a distressed asset class right now.
00:24:14.904 --> 00:24:18.035
which as an opportunist, I think is very compelling.
00:24:18.045 --> 00:24:19.365
That's why I'm always thinking about it.
00:24:19.954 --> 00:24:25.015
Do you think, the office will come back in any way?
00:24:25.325 --> 00:24:26.615
And if so, how?
00:24:27.615 --> 00:24:30.085
I think we can ask the same question about retail space.
00:24:31.085 --> 00:24:35.634
I mean, there are whole shopping malls that are sitting vacant.
00:24:36.634 --> 00:24:42.944
Well the office was a necessary part of business.
00:24:43.944 --> 00:24:56.224
I don't believe that the office in the form that it had is any longer the necessary part of some business, many businesses.
00:24:56.224 --> 00:24:56.733
Yeah.
00:24:57.733 --> 00:25:03.273
Which form do you think, do you think there is a form that is functional?
00:25:03.273 --> 00:25:03.354
I don't know.
00:25:04.213 --> 00:25:06.814
Or the new business.
00:25:08.723 --> 00:25:11.453
Again, I think it depends on the business, Louis.
00:25:12.453 --> 00:25:15.713
I really think it depends on the business and it, again, it depends on the people.
00:25:16.713 --> 00:25:17.034
Okay.
00:25:17.064 --> 00:25:25.604
You know, I can get online and work with a client through strategy planning session, let's say.
00:25:26.604 --> 00:25:33.153
I have a client in Ottawa who has had to pivot her business.
00:25:35.009 --> 00:25:41.999
The first time when she began working with me about six years ago, it was because she was working seven days a week.
00:25:42.999 --> 00:25:50.189
She was waking up with her email in her hand when she woke up and going to bed the same way.
00:25:51.528 --> 00:26:01.429
she needed to find a way to continue to support her family while also spending time being there with her family.
00:26:02.429 --> 00:26:05.429
But just as she was launching that strategy, COVID hit and she had to.
00:26:05.753 --> 00:26:15.324
Pivot again, and the service that she offers has taken a different form post COVID, and she had to pivot again.
00:26:16.324 --> 00:26:24.034
We have re strategized her business all of those times, and oh, by the way, I've coached her daughter and her son.
00:26:25.034 --> 00:26:25.913
And we have never met.
00:26:26.913 --> 00:26:29.364
We did need an office.
00:26:30.364 --> 00:26:30.804
Yeah.
00:26:31.253 --> 00:26:36.983
You know, if we can compare this to retail again, sorry to push back a little bit here.
00:26:38.074 --> 00:26:38.953
No, go for it.
00:26:39.278 --> 00:26:54.648
Yeah, I see, yes, there are definitely malls around this country that are empty, uh, but if you go back about five years, the retail vacancy around the country in general was much greater, right?
00:26:54.659 --> 00:27:02.019
It's very hard now to find, small retail available spaces in a lot of cities that are thriving, right?
00:27:02.058 --> 00:27:05.679
in ghost cities, you know, cities that are declining you're going to have.
00:27:06.394 --> 00:27:07.534
Vacancies anyways.
00:27:08.253 --> 00:27:10.134
But a lot of them have reinvented themselves.
00:27:10.134 --> 00:27:12.913
Here in Denver, it's hard to find an empty retail space, right?
00:27:12.913 --> 00:27:14.513
And if it is, it's pretty expensive.
00:27:15.064 --> 00:27:17.564
and I know when I travel to other cities, I see the same.
00:27:18.023 --> 00:27:22.374
some of your old malls, I know where I grew up in Rhode Island, there was one in Lincoln.
00:27:22.703 --> 00:27:24.324
I think they shut it down.
00:27:24.933 --> 00:27:27.854
however, they are being rethought.
00:27:28.153 --> 00:27:28.443
Right.
00:27:28.473 --> 00:27:31.594
And redesigned to be much more functional.
00:27:31.693 --> 00:27:32.253
A lot of them.
00:27:32.433 --> 00:27:41.443
So I've seen some designs, are outdoor malls now, you know, so you're not going walking down the hall and they have much more, diverse offerings, right?
00:27:41.443 --> 00:27:42.534
Some of them have housing.
00:27:42.534 --> 00:27:45.503
I know in Florida, they're doing things like this.
00:27:45.503 --> 00:27:46.784
they're including housing.
00:27:47.663 --> 00:27:53.763
they're making it more of an outdoor space, a more entertainment inside, so it's not just a shopping experience.
00:27:54.913 --> 00:27:56.963
I say this to go back to the office.
00:27:56.963 --> 00:28:11.493
I feel, that what we're going through is a change in the way that we're thinking the office and there is a redesign process happening and I don't know what that looks like, but I gave up my office about a year ago.
00:28:11.673 --> 00:28:17.403
I've been working at a home more and, you know, various coffee shops and, you know, living that kind of life.
00:28:17.453 --> 00:28:23.153
And I gotta tell you, I'm, I'm kind of missing an office, you know, and I've started to look again.
00:28:24.564 --> 00:28:35.884
But I don't know if I want, you know, a regular old office with some cubes or, or even just even rooms, you know, I'm not sure what I want, but I think that there is a need for that.
00:28:35.993 --> 00:28:44.044
And then when I go visit coworking spaces, here in Denver, a lot of them have waitlists, you know, so I know I'm not the only one.
00:28:44.844 --> 00:28:48.344
So we all need community.
00:28:49.003 --> 00:28:49.413
Yeah.
00:28:49.973 --> 00:28:53.314
We all need that in person interaction.
00:28:54.314 --> 00:28:57.864
It doesn't have to be driven by the office.
00:28:58.864 --> 00:29:18.173
I think that, you know, the example of repurposing shopping malls and repurposing other kinds of retail spaces is a good example, if you will, of what will most likely happen with office space.
00:29:18.374 --> 00:29:32.284
I know it's happening in New York City now, where what was office space is in some cases being transformed into, hotel and residential space.
00:29:33.683 --> 00:29:37.074
maybe bring some retail in on the ground floor and so forth.
00:29:38.074 --> 00:29:38.534
Yeah.
00:29:38.644 --> 00:29:53.263
let's talk a little bit about, if we could switch gears a little bit, you talk about three brains, thinking with three brains, what are our three brains or what are the three brains?
00:29:54.413 --> 00:29:55.683
Okay, here we go.
00:29:56.683 --> 00:29:57.644
It's head, heart, and gut.
00:29:58.713 --> 00:29:59.384
Let's start there.
00:30:00.384 --> 00:30:04.203
Not every neuroscientist uses the same language.
00:30:05.193 --> 00:30:12.703
Some will talk about the cephalic brain in our head, the cardiac brain in our heart, the enteric brain in our gut.
00:30:13.713 --> 00:30:18.334
Some will talk about, neural networks or neural clusters.
00:30:20.233 --> 00:30:38.263
The bottom line is we have the same motor neurons and sensory neurons in our hearts We have in our heads where what we think of as the brain, the same electrochemical activity as occurs in the brain in our head occurs in our heart.
00:30:39.403 --> 00:30:47.463
In our guts, we have about as many neurons as a cat's brain and they stretch from the esophagus all the way through the digestive tract.
00:30:48.144 --> 00:31:01.544
Again, motor and sensory neurons, again, electrochemical activity, very much like in our heads head, heart, and gut are connected and communicate through the vagus nerve.
00:31:02.544 --> 00:31:08.663
Neuroscientists estimate that about 90 percent of that communication is upward.
00:31:10.523 --> 00:31:19.903
Our gut talking to our, what I like to call sort of our central processing unit in our heads, our heart talking to, our heads.
00:31:20.903 --> 00:31:25.604
Each of these has its own area of expertise.
00:31:26.604 --> 00:31:30.673
In the front of our head, behind our forehead is the prefrontal cortex.
00:31:31.554 --> 00:31:32.794
Prefrontal cortex.
00:31:33.308 --> 00:31:39.118
is the last part of the brain to develop, in him and evolution.
00:31:39.558 --> 00:31:44.888
It's also the last part of the brain to develop in the human fetus.
00:31:45.719 --> 00:31:52.858
The prefrontal cortex is where we do our problem solving, our creative thinking, our, rational thinking, if you will.
00:31:54.519 --> 00:32:01.959
it is not fully integrated into the brain until the late teens or the early twenties, which is why teenagers can do really stupid things.
00:32:02.509 --> 00:32:05.818
They literally don't have the full access to the prefrontal cortex.
00:32:07.719 --> 00:32:12.209
Our hearts, we know what's in our heart.
00:32:12.689 --> 00:32:16.989
Our heart is the Seat of passion, compassion, and values.
00:32:17.989 --> 00:32:19.519
I put my heart into my work.
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:22.028
Some people are heartless.
00:32:23.638 --> 00:32:24.338
There's real.
00:32:24.499 --> 00:32:24.959
It's real.
00:32:24.959 --> 00:32:27.098
It's not just some woo woo thing.
00:32:27.888 --> 00:32:31.159
Our gut is the seat of courage.
00:32:32.159 --> 00:32:33.378
I've got to gut this one out.
00:32:33.648 --> 00:32:34.679
Self protection.
00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:37.699
Something doesn't feel right here.
00:32:37.699 --> 00:32:38.638
I can feel it in my gut.
00:32:39.939 --> 00:32:41.338
And who we are at our core.
00:32:43.298 --> 00:32:47.628
So listening to our three brains is important.
00:32:48.608 --> 00:32:49.848
Again, it's not woo woo.
00:32:49.898 --> 00:32:50.459
It's real.
00:32:51.459 --> 00:32:55.469
Going back to the story of the future, that's why you want a head, heart and gut story.
00:32:56.469 --> 00:33:00.679
You want a story that energizes your passion.
00:33:00.679 --> 00:33:12.138
You want a story that excites who you are at your core, not just a story about the future that makes rational sense.
00:33:13.528 --> 00:33:13.548
Yeah.
00:33:14.548 --> 00:33:22.489
And if you think, I'm thinking about some of the best storytellers and visionaries, they do tell it with all three of those heads, right?
00:33:23.489 --> 00:33:43.334
so Brian, we are, right around that time, I think we should get into our wayfinder for, we could, if you could give us a hack that you use every day, this is just kind of something you use to cheat life with, it could be a routine, an app, a habit, you know.
00:33:44.334 --> 00:33:46.314
people aren't going to be able to see it, but I'm pulling it out.
00:33:47.983 --> 00:33:49.203
My story from the future.
00:33:50.544 --> 00:33:50.953
Okay.
00:33:51.953 --> 00:33:56.923
do you have a model that you use like, you know, Cam Harold, Cam Harold, I believe it was.
00:33:56.933 --> 00:34:01.753
He wrote a good book, The Vivid Vision, walks you through creating that.
00:34:01.763 --> 00:34:06.624
Do you have one, you know, that you recommend and how people can go about that?
00:34:08.403 --> 00:34:16.103
I really plant the seeds and nurture them with my coaching itself, it becomes a very different process.
00:34:16.103 --> 00:34:17.673
It's true.
00:34:17.728 --> 00:34:23.518
what I would say is repeating what I said before.
00:34:23.518 --> 00:34:26.318
First of all, you don't have to know what's going to happen.
00:34:27.318 --> 00:34:34.639
Circumstances outside of you can change and you, you can edit it, but you also don't have to know every detail.
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:42.739
I had one client that all she could tell when we started was these are the kinds of people I want to work with.
00:34:44.188 --> 00:34:47.438
These are the kinds of clients I want to serve.
00:34:48.653 --> 00:34:51.023
And I want to be known for my signature red jacket.
00:34:52.023 --> 00:34:56.293
That was enough for her to create the first version of her story.
00:34:57.293 --> 00:34:57.713
Okay.
00:34:57.884 --> 00:35:00.893
And then just read it every day or regularly?
00:35:02.003 --> 00:35:07.094
And as she, all's we need to know is what is the first step to take.
00:35:07.643 --> 00:35:08.003
Yeah.
00:35:09.003 --> 00:35:12.483
And as she took more steps, she filled in the story.
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.188
And she moved toward that future.
00:35:16.188 --> 00:35:17.219
How about a favorite?
00:35:18.248 --> 00:35:23.588
It could be, you know, a book, movie, something you like, you know.
00:35:24.588 --> 00:35:25.438
A favorite anything?
00:35:25.798 --> 00:35:26.248
Yeah.
00:35:27.099 --> 00:35:27.588
My son.
00:35:28.878 --> 00:35:29.259
Yeah.
00:35:30.259 --> 00:35:30.719
Beautiful.
00:35:31.489 --> 00:35:36.849
And I, I think I've, I heard, on another podcast you were on, you, you became a father late in life, right?
00:35:37.228 --> 00:35:38.688
That was a pretty fascinating story, actually.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:39.838
I did.
00:35:39.878 --> 00:35:40.338
I did.
00:35:41.648 --> 00:35:51.659
in 2009, I got an email that said, I'm a high school sophomore in Massachusetts, studying photography.
00:35:52.389 --> 00:35:57.458
Our assignment is to write the biography and photograph in the style of our favorite photographer.
00:35:57.898 --> 00:36:01.329
I Googled gay photographers and you're my favorite, may I interview you?
00:36:02.329 --> 00:36:03.498
My ego said yes.
00:36:03.574 --> 00:36:08.753
I, I got on the phone with Brandon and he was incredibly well prepared.
00:36:09.554 --> 00:36:12.543
one of the questions he asked me was, how did you come to your photography?
00:36:12.543 --> 00:36:26.153
So I told him my story and I turned the question back to him and he said, it's way to see a world outside the abuse I experienced at home every day and the assaults I suffer at school on a regular basis.
00:36:27.853 --> 00:36:30.344
And I could not say, I hope you get a good grade.
00:36:32.313 --> 00:36:33.974
So I offered to stay in touch.
00:36:34.474 --> 00:36:35.244
And we did.
00:36:35.614 --> 00:36:36.753
his parents were divorced.
00:36:36.753 --> 00:36:39.893
He was living with his birth mother.
00:36:40.353 --> 00:36:54.003
Who was not happy having a gay son and she got me involved in helping him prepare for his SATs, doing college applications, scholarship applications, campus visits.
00:36:54.684 --> 00:36:57.903
Three months before he graduated high school, she threw him out.
00:36:58.934 --> 00:36:59.353
Wow.
00:37:01.213 --> 00:37:03.623
And he called me.
00:37:05.063 --> 00:37:16.514
And I showed, showed up for him, drove up to Massachusetts, met with his school, found a place to live, until he graduated and then he moved down with me.
00:37:16.684 --> 00:37:17.443
I adopted him.
00:37:18.003 --> 00:37:22.094
he graduated from the new school with a 3.
00:37:22.094 --> 00:37:25.784
9 GPA, so he didn't get thrown out because he was a bad kid.
00:37:26.784 --> 00:37:27.164
Wow.
00:37:28.764 --> 00:37:29.423
That's powerful.
00:37:30.423 --> 00:37:32.994
What about a piece of advice for your younger self?
00:37:33.994 --> 00:37:34.793
Be true to you.
00:37:35.793 --> 00:37:36.483
Be true to you.
00:37:37.483 --> 00:37:37.873
Say more.
00:37:37.884 --> 00:37:38.744
It was very hard.
00:37:39.744 --> 00:37:41.184
I was born in 1949.
00:37:42.153 --> 00:37:47.824
By the time I was a teenager, I knew I was not interested in the girls in my class.
00:37:48.824 --> 00:37:57.184
And in the 1960s, you certainly weren't open about being interested in people of the same sex as you.
00:37:58.184 --> 00:38:17.204
And it took me to the age of 31, which was several years after the American Psychiatric Association let go of defining homosexuality as a mental disease, before I was finally able to be true to myself.
00:38:18.204 --> 00:38:22.134
I don't regret not having done so.
00:38:23.273 --> 00:38:30.653
Earlier, and I was true to myself in just about every other way.
00:38:31.653 --> 00:38:32.123
Okay.
00:38:32.653 --> 00:38:37.804
What about a big opportunity or a limiting belief you choose?
00:38:38.804 --> 00:38:41.684
And I purposely leave that very vague.
00:38:42.914 --> 00:38:50.414
Uh, I think a big opportunity for me is always, meeting new prospective clients.
00:38:51.414 --> 00:38:53.523
Coaching is a way for me to pay it forward.
00:38:54.523 --> 00:39:03.324
As you know, I host a podcast of, now had over a hundred episodes of conversations.
00:39:04.324 --> 00:39:12.474
I'm about to turn 75 and I'm still learning, but I also have a lot of learning under my belt.
00:39:13.793 --> 00:39:23.614
And so coaching is a way, you know, I'm working with a CEO of a literally a billion dollar corporation in New York right now, who was not prepared.
00:39:23.614 --> 00:39:34.634
So, for the position and it's my way of helping others find their way through the challenges and the opportunities that they face.
00:39:36.023 --> 00:39:40.204
So every time I meet a prospective new client, it's a big opportunity.
00:39:40.273 --> 00:39:42.034
It's a chance to make a difference.
00:39:42.773 --> 00:39:48.114
And when you make a difference in one person's life, you make a difference in all the lives that they touch as well.
00:39:48.733 --> 00:39:49.043
Right.
00:39:49.474 --> 00:39:53.923
And it sounds like a lot of your clients are people who are touching a lot of lives too.
00:39:53.923 --> 00:39:56.123
So you're having quite an impact, right?
00:39:56.125 --> 00:39:56.534
Yeah.
00:39:57.313 --> 00:39:57.574
Yeah.
00:39:57.583 --> 00:39:57.773
Yep.
00:39:58.914 --> 00:40:03.983
So, Brian, tell us more about your podcast and if people want to know more about you, where can they find you?
00:40:05.114 --> 00:40:08.434
So the podcast is Conversations, spelled with a Q.
00:40:09.253 --> 00:40:19.733
it is hosted by me and, done for the company Quantavos, which is, one of my clients.
00:40:20.114 --> 00:40:22.693
I'm, their vice president for program development.
00:40:23.693 --> 00:40:27.244
they are a professional development firm with coaching at its core.
00:40:27.434 --> 00:40:29.423
Quantabose means choose to be your best.
00:40:30.634 --> 00:40:35.903
And, so conversations, it's on the Quantabose website.
00:40:35.903 --> 00:40:42.793
It's also on Apple, Google, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, Spotify, Podchase, or a number of other podcast platforms.
00:40:43.653 --> 00:40:49.494
and in two weeks, this guy named Louis Hernandez is going to be, our guest on conversations.
00:40:49.923 --> 00:40:50.503
I heard he's outstanding.
00:40:50.505 --> 00:40:52.215
we recorded a little while ago.
00:40:52.764 --> 00:40:55.195
every week we bring thought leaders.
00:40:56.454 --> 00:40:57.985
they might be book authors.
00:40:57.985 --> 00:41:13.130
two weeks ago, we released an episode with a, retired Navy SEAL commander who then became very successful in business, sharing His perspective on, how important visioning is for leaders.
00:41:13.230 --> 00:41:15.099
so anyway, that's conversations.
00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:19.690
my website, my business is transforming lives.
00:41:19.949 --> 00:41:20.460
coach.
00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:27.190
And I actually am just in the process that, totally replacing the website.
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:35.800
The copy is now with, the editor before we go into website design, but, you can reach me through there.
00:41:37.014 --> 00:41:45.184
To set up a time, there's a link on the homepage, or you can email me at brian at transforminglives.
00:41:45.224 --> 00:41:46.885
coach and that's B R I A N.
00:41:47.885 --> 00:41:48.565
Thank you, Brian.
00:41:48.704 --> 00:41:49.474
this has been great.
00:41:49.925 --> 00:41:54.585
And, I hope people check out your podcast, especially in a couple of weeks when you have that guy on.
00:41:56.315 --> 00:41:58.864
well, by the time this one comes out, it'll already have come out.
00:41:58.864 --> 00:42:03.925
I really enjoyed getting to know you more from that podcast recording as well as this one.
00:42:04.585 --> 00:42:07.284
we have very thought provoking conversations and I really enjoy that.
00:42:07.425 --> 00:42:08.974
So thank you for being here.
00:42:10.135 --> 00:42:11.175
for the opportunity, Louie.
00:42:16.945 --> 00:42:18.704
We hope you've enjoyed The Wayfinder Show.
00:42:18.855 --> 00:42:23.074
If you got value from this episode, please take a few seconds to leave us a 5 star rating and review.
00:42:23.364 --> 00:42:27.614
This will allow us to help more people find their way to live more authentic and exciting lives.
00:42:28.275 --> 00:42:29.574
We'll catch you on the next episode.
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