Transcript
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I think that there's a, there's a 1,000,001 different ways to make money in real estate.
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I don't think that there's any right or wrong way.
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You and I both know many people in the industry that do different things than what we do, and they do quite well, right?
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Yeah.
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They're kinda masters of their own craft.
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However, I would say that we try to stay our lane.
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It's, I've, some people do it really well, but I've never been great at, at doing many things and, and being excellent at all them at the same time.
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And so that, that's why.
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We focused on mobile home parks for many years before we ever even considered another asset class.
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Welcome to the Wayfinder Show with Louis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some areas of their life.
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Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
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Come join us and find a way to your dream life.
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Welcome back to the Wayfinder Show.
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I'm your host Louis Hernandez, and today I'm thrilled to welcome Kevin Bup to the show.
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Kevin is a seasoned commercial real estate investor with over$1 billion in transactions under his belt.
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He's the author of the Cashflow Investor and host of the Top Rated Real Estate Investing for Cash Flow podcast.
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As the founder of Sunrise Capital Investors, Kevin is passionate about help helping passive investors achieve financial freedom by focusing on high performing assets like mobile home parks and parking facilities with decades of experience at Insights featured on platforms like BiggerPockets and the best CRE show, Kevin is here to share his expertise in identifying top investment opportunities in today's market.
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Kevin, welcome to the Wayfinder Show.
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Hey Louis.
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Thanks for having me.
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I'm excited to be here.
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I.
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Yeah, we're excited to have you.
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So Kevin, let's let's start out a little bit about your journey.
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What's your origin story?
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Where are you from?
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How'd you get to where you are?
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That kind of thing.
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Yeah.
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No, sure, sure thing.
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So I've I always joke and say I've, never had a real job.
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I I got started in real estate at a young age.
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Got introduced to it at 19, bought my first single family investment at the age of 20.
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And it really just followed that, that similar trajectory was following a mentor of mine.
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And just building a single family and small multifamily portfolio of rental properties, in the first six or so years found some good, momentum at scale.
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And in my my mid twenties had built up a portfolio of about 120 single family homes and wow, a few hundred apartment doors and and was doing really well at least on paper.
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And ultimately oh eight happened.
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I was living in, I live in Florida now.
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I was down in Tampa Bay area and own everything I had down here.
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And Florida was, one of the ground zero spots for, the crash.
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And ultimately real estate became, the market became incredibly challenging in a very short period of time down here.
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And so just really found myself, running damage control and just working through loan modifications and dean lose and just a challenging.
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Roughly three years of, my life from oh eight to oh 11.
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And then basically came back in and had to rebuild had to figure out a better way better way to to make the mousetrap and ultimately fast forward to where I'm at today.
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So I during that period, I got introduced to another asset class, which is mobile home parks.
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It's, one asset class that we still focus, on today.
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It's our primary focus.
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Bought that first mobile home park back in 2000, late 2011.
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And then ultimately found success with that and bought a sack in a third or fourth, the fifth.
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And fast forward to today we've, got about 350 million of assets under management in our portfolio and most of it being manufactured housing.
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And then we also have one other vertical that we specialize in, and that's parking.
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So parking lots and parking garages and strategic locations across the country.
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That was a very condensed version.
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I've been at this SN for over 20 years full time.
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This is all.
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All I do, we've got a wonderful team and we built some we've been involved with some really special and amazing projects and have a lot of fun doing it too.
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That, I think that's the most important aspect, right?
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Enjoy what you do and you never have a day at work.
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With that, again, that's my 20 plus year story of of being an investor.
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And it's been a fun ride.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I, remember the oh eight era.
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It has defined you you've, been much more resilient, jumped back at it and, obviously it shows success.
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I, I I spent quite a bit of time recovering from that as well.
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The I was in Baltimore and I remember going down to Denver to Tampa to Florida, actually during that time and just seeing like whole communities that were in the mid.
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Middle of getting built up and all of a sudden they were just like left abandoned there.
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Big subdivisions and such.
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Lots of that.
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Amazing.
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Yeah.
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Yeah that was the biggest, issue there was obviously the, loans were very easy to obtain back then.
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Lots of subprime loans.
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You had no, no income, no dock loans.
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Yeah.
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And if you could fall ga mirror, you could go buy four houses, right?
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And that was the, and so there was builders that were building tens of thousands of rooftops for really a population wasn't here.
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It was just really Hot potato Hot potato.
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And then when the music stopped, there were, there was an, a massively excess, a large excess supply of of housing units.
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And then on top of that a lot of the, a lot of the employment down here during those boom years was fueled by construction work or revolved around the real estate space.
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And so when, housing stopped, guess what?
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A lot of the jobs went away and folks had to move and find new occupations or careers, or go to a new, literally leave Florida and go somewhere else where there's a little bit more job stability.
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And so not only did we have a massive amount of excess supply of, rooftops, we also saw a out migration of population for a period of time.
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And so it was pretty nasty for many years.
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But as far as the resiliency, man I literally, I, three years of, I ran, I managed this kind of damage control for three years trying to figure shit out and yeah.
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And I wouldn't say that I, immediately bounced back.
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It was a my first, the first property I bought I, my credit was gone.
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It was many years went by, probably six years went by without me even looking at my credit score.
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'cause it was in the, was horrific eye judgment, things like that.
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Judgments.
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I was working through liens.
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I tried to work with all my creditors and try again.
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It was many, years of trying to work through that while I tried to figure out a way to rebuild.
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But it didn't come quick.
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We started buying properties, but it was a, using the last penny I had had to make it work.
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And trying to figure it out.
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Back then, everything was still distressed, we were buying stuff.
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But Jo the unemployment is still high.
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Jobs were still tough to come by, right?
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And so it wasn't a, it wasn't an easy go, even buying things at a discount, it still wasn't an easy go we had to fight tooth and nail to to get this properties to cash flow and to to, hold onto'em for long term.
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But it I'm happy where we're at today.
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It's.
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It's definitely helped me build who I am and really reshape my character as an individual and definitely wouldn't trade it for the world.
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So lots of, good lessons learned during those challenging times.
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Yeah, totally.
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I'm wondering if you see any, with having gone through that, makes you really wise, right?
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Like you, you just have a lot of experience that you just learn about that you can't read you about you have to experience to, to really learn.
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And with that in mind, I'm wondering what you're seeing with today's market, right?
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You said out migration from Florida.
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I can't imagine people even imagining that now you, Florida's been a top market right?
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In this country for probably the last, I dunno, five to 10 years, right?
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And yeah.
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And it seems to continue that way.
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That's all we read about.
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How are you seeing any signs of anything turning at all?
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As far as speaking to Florida, no Florida's incredibly sound it's got a, it's a much more diverse economic base than what it was back then.
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It's a night and day difference.
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As far as and obviously there's a, lot of markets within Florida, the state of Florida, so the major ones being the Tampa Bay area, Orlando, Miami, and Jacksonville.
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But all incredibly resilient areas.
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Lots of lots of employers that have moved their operations to Florida.
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So again, just for a litany of reasons Florida's a very sound and solid place.
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We still have quite a bit of population trying to make their way here.
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We have no state income tax.
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There's a lot of benefit in the weather's pretty amazing too.
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I don't see Florida slowing down anytime soon.
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We've got, unreasonably low inventory on the market.
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I know a lot of, lots of areas are dealing with that same thing.
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But it's just, there's there's more folks that are trying to move here than move away.
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So it's it's, a positive thing all the way around.
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So I definitely don't see any stress cracks in Florida as a whole, and even the major submarkets I've mentioned there.
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And prices are still, pricing is still incredibly tight.
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Whether you talk about residential or commercial, still a lot of capital that's trying to find its way into these, various markets within Florida.
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And so again, I don't see that changing anytime soon, but I'm not an economist, all I can see is, what I see and and what I feel and just being in the immediate marketplace and, it's still incredibly strong.
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Yeah.
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I would argue with not being an economist probably makes you more qualified to your opinion, but what about, what, what got you into mobile homes and, parking, let's take one of them at a time.
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Why mobile homes?
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Yeah.
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I've always been in residential real estate.
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Residential is just fairly easy for me to understand.
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Everyone needs a roofer over their head, right?
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It's one of our basic needs.
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And and so I understood when I own a few hundred houses, most of them were a they were work workforce type houses in the lower end neighborhoods.
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Not lower quality, but just lower end demographic as far as the income standpoint.
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And and so I just, I was always very comfortable in that space.
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And so I had never considered mobile home parks.
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It just accidentally fell on my radar.
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When I was going through the rebuild phase sorry, really 2011 when I was okay, version two, how do we do this better?
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The second time around I I did identify that I didn't really want to go the route of buying a bunch of single family homes.
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Again, I I'd identified some, inefficiencies in that business model and just felt that buying multi-families, which I own a number of as well, was just a better way to scale and to you have to get to a certain critical scale as well before you can really start affording to hire staff.
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Yeah.
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And and when I was building a single family home portfolio, literally I ended up building it up to about just shy of 40 units by myself and I was running ragged, I'm like, I'm not doing that again.
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And I didn't really have the actual, I didn't have the funds to go out and build the team first before I.
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Built the portfolio.
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And so I felt multifamily was gonna be the easier way.
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I can just go buy one or two 30, 40 unit properties and quickly get to a scale where I could start bringing some some teammates in to help run the organization.
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And so during that time, I went, I went through this explore exploratory phase.
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This is starting in early 2011 where I just went out the market had really changed, the landscape had changed.
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Everything was different from oh eight to oh 11, and when I say from oh eight to 2011 when I was running damage control my, portfolio and I was managing that crisis, I wasn't paying attention to anything else that was going on in the world, right?
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Things were crumbling, the economy was in really rough shape.
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But I just, I wasn't keeping my finger on the pulse of the real estate market or what did funding look like nowadays you know what were loan terms.
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I literally, I wasn't paying attention to any of that stuff.
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And so when it came time to reinvent myself.
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If I needed to understand what was happening out there, right?
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What's real world, the people that are actually that own multi-family, the people that are in the areas I wanna buy in.
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Like how are they managing how what did occupancy look like?
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What were rents like what were some considerations?
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Or, like things like concessions.
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Were those still being given out?
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And so I went on this mission to meet as many people as I could that are still in the space.
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And during that, timeframe, I was introduced by a good friend of mine to a gentleman by the name of Randy.
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And Randy just happened to be like a commercial banker for 30 years of his career.
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And had, recently retired.
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I literally just was introduced to Randy,'cause Randy knows a lot of people.
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So my buddy's Hey, go meet Randy.
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Go have lunch with, he's a cool dude.
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He's got good stories.
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And he's, been a banker for 30 years.
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Good, person to know.
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And I had lunch with Randy and found out that he owned a couple of mobile home parks.
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So he, his last 10 plus years of his banking career, a lot of his clients here in Florida own mobile home parks.
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And so he made the comment to me of I found myself in the wrong side of the closing statement or the wrong side of that p and l, right?
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Like I saw how much money my clients were making for 10 years.
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And so I he's like, when I retired, I made the decision that I was gonna go buy a couple parks as my retirement.
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And and he did, and I met him about two years after he had retired, bought a couple parks and and he just, he's the first person I had ever met that owned mobile home parks.
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And he started selling me all the beautiful things about the asset class.
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And he was really trying to make comparison to, I.
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Mobile home parks to to traditional multifamily.
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'cause he knew that, that, was what my focus was as as I worked towards rebuilding.
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And yeah.
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Anyway, long story short, I had two hour lunch meeting with him and he spoke probably an hour and a half of that about mobile home parks and how great they were.
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And I was so excited and I was so intrigued about the asset class.
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And I literally left that lunch meeting and I made a commitment to myself that I was gonna go buy a mobile home park and, see whether or not it was as great as what Randy had said it was.
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And so I did that.
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I there wasn't a lot of information out there, there weren't any podcasts on the topic.
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There was a few select random books, but there just wasn't a lot of information out in the marketplace like there is today.
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And and so I just really, what I did is I started calling on listings and I started going to look at parks and I started talking to brokers and, I started making offers.
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I got cold feet a bunch of times, got offers accepted, got cold feet.
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And I finally, just over a year from that point, I had lunch with Randy.
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I bought the first park.
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Bought asset up in Atlanta, Georgia.
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And Louis owned it up until about two and a half, two and a half, three years ago.
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But that was the first one.
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And the first one went well.
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Bought the second one, went well, bought the third, fourth so that's probably 50 parks ago.
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And it's been a fun ride ever since.
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So never planned on it, it was never part of the the grand plan to, buy mobile home parks.
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But it's been a great asset class and on top of that, it's, it truly is.
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I, I truly believe that it's the best and most affordable non-subsidized housing that exists today.
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In the market.
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Any market you take, any market where we own parks, I guarantee that we are by far by no means the lowest quality option.
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In fact, a lot of our work's incredibly nice, but I guarantee we are the most affordable option.
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If you compare two bedroom, two bath, a thousand square foot apartment to one of our, one of our homes or one of our communities, I guarantee ours is way nice.
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And it's probably about 25% less than what you pay to live in an apartment in the same area.
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So again, it's just a phenomenal value and really is a a a, a critical element of solving and making a debt in the affordable housing crisis.
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Yeah.
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I, don't know a lot about mobile homes.
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I grew up in the Northeast where there's just not many around to be found.
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But over time, obviously being in the space you, hear you, more of it, more of'em here in Colorado and such.
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But, I have seen it become incredibly popular in probably the last five years.
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I remember reading a Wall Street Journal article that talked about how there were these big operators and I think from after that just opened my eyes to a lot more about it.
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What are some differences in terms of the challenges?
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We have our stereotypes of, trailer parks and such, and.
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Obviously, and yeah, it seems like it's just another version of low income housing, right?
00:16:44.453 --> 00:16:49.374
At the end of the day mobile home parks are really, it's a different form of multifamily housing, right?
00:16:49.374 --> 00:16:49.433
Yeah.
00:16:49.614 --> 00:16:57.474
It's just horizontal instead of maybe a couple levels vertical, but really at the end of the day it really falls in the same bucket as, an apartment complex.
00:16:57.474 --> 00:16:58.854
It just comes in a different form.
00:17:00.173 --> 00:17:12.413
And so with that, a lot of folks, unfortunately, there is a stereotype and it all gets lumped into the bad stereotype of trailer trash drug, sex, rock and roll, like really just the, wrong elements.
00:17:12.413 --> 00:17:14.544
But it's, really the farthest from the truth.
00:17:15.263 --> 00:17:19.493
Again, you could pick any, market and pick let's use Denver as an example.
00:17:20.693 --> 00:17:26.784
There's really the wrong part of town where in that wrong part of town where you don't want to go the dangerous part of town.
00:17:26.784 --> 00:17:31.763
There's apartment complexes, there's single family houses, and there's probably a few mobile home parks here and there, right?
00:17:31.763 --> 00:17:33.923
And they all they truly are all that.
00:17:34.433 --> 00:17:36.324
You know that, that element that you don't want, right?
00:17:36.324 --> 00:17:36.325
Sure.
00:17:36.329 --> 00:17:37.703
You just, you probably don't wanna go there during the day.
00:17:37.703 --> 00:17:38.483
It's just dangerous, right?
00:17:38.483 --> 00:17:40.584
It's where all the drugs happen and, just crime and what have you.
00:17:40.584 --> 00:17:41.844
It's the wrong side of the railroad tracks.
00:17:42.983 --> 00:17:44.304
Then you take the middle class, right?
00:17:44.304 --> 00:17:49.104
Plenty of obviously blue collar, middle class neighborhoods, subdivisions in Denver.
00:17:50.183 --> 00:17:52.794
There's also apartment complexes in those areas of town.
00:17:53.064 --> 00:17:53.544
I can promise you.
00:17:53.544 --> 00:17:56.183
There's mobile home parks as well, and it's all very similar demographic.
00:17:56.874 --> 00:18:08.963
And then you take even the higher end stuff you take you got your white collar neighborhoods you've got your brand new, a class type apartment complexes that are catered to a certain demographic.
00:18:09.173 --> 00:18:21.834
And while it might not be the exact same demographic as a higher end mobile home park and maybe Denver's not a good example, but here in Florida and in Arizona, in the Sunbelt areas, there's a lot of what we like to classify as lifestyle communities.
00:18:21.834 --> 00:18:22.284
These are.
00:18:23.483 --> 00:18:24.953
These are mobile home parks.
00:18:24.953 --> 00:18:28.374
However, they're really they're a, master plan subdivision.
00:18:28.584 --> 00:18:34.763
They've got swimming pools, they've got clubhouses, they've got bocce ball, they've got pickleball courts, they've got all these things.
00:18:34.763 --> 00:18:34.943
Really?