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Mastering Life Through Running and Creativity - Brian Barra…
Send us a Text Message. In this episode of The Wayfinder Show, host Luis Hernandez converses with professional runner, artist, designer, an…
Aug. 27, 2024
Mastering Life Through Running and Creativity - Brian Barraza
In this episode of The Wayfinder Show, host Luis Hernandez converses with professional runner, artist, designer, and author Brian Barraza. They delve into Brian's multi-faceted pursuits, including his professional running career, poetry, and the importance of self-mastery and personal growth. Brian shares insights from his latest book, discusses the philosophy of living a good life, and how running and creative endeavors harmoniously shape his life. This episode explores the deeper connection between athletic discipline, artistic expression, and personal development.
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Transcript
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It's, it's about cultivating this relationship with yourself to, to know yourself well enough and to love yourself enough to be able to act in alignment with who you actually are and what you actually care about.
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First for me, it's about clarity in that.
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And then it's about trying to feel into what that experience is like.
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I guide myself a lot by how things feel like if I'm noticing a lot, Oh, Frustration right now.
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What's the source of that?
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How do I live my life more in alignment with peace, tranquility, feeling alive and feeling inspired.
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Welcome to the Wayfinder show with Louie Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.
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Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
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Come join us and find the way to your dream life.
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Welcome back to the Wayfinder show.
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I'm your host, Louis Hernandez.
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today we are here with Brian Barraza.
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as you guys know, I'm a running geek, so we run the danger of getting into running geekiness today because Brian is a professional runner.
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but he's also, much more than that.
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And that's what we hope to talk about.
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he's also an artist, a designer, and an author.
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He's the author of A Shore in the Drift from Lighthouses to the Deep, which is a collection of poems.
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his pursuit of mastery has led him to dive deeply into examining what it means to be human.
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In his new book, he wants to share that no matter how far adrift you may feel, it's always possible to come back to shore.
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Today, he joins us from Boulder, Colorado, to talk about his collection of poetry, The Nature of Life with the Human Experience, and Frameworks for Performance in Pursuit of the Good Life.
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Brian, welcome to The Wayfinder Show.
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Thank you for having me.
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It's good to be here.
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So, as I mentioned before the show, we had a little bit of a discussion and I mentioned that I've been, around the Boulder running scene for a while.
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Obviously, I've never been a professional runner but I know it.
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I always wish I could have been, but never did.
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I appreciate the scene and got to know a lot of professional runners.
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after a while, when I got to, you know, Dude, I'm probably going to offend some of them here, unfortunately, but, you know, I realize that to be a professional runner, running has to consume you and really take over your life.
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As much as I was a fanboy being around so many of your peers I started to realize that maybe i'm grateful for my life I don't have that life because there's so much more to it.
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And when we first started, Looking at having you on the wayfinder show.
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I wasn't too sure about that because I thought, okay, we're just going to talk about professional running, but then you have a lot more to you.
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writing books about poetry designing and everything.
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this is a really interesting guy.
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I'm really grateful to have you here for that.
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Thank you.
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I think one of the best compliments I've ever been given in my life was that how fast I can run is the least interesting thing about me.
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So hopefully I'll be able to expand on that a little bit and, show more of who I am so that I'm not as, one dimensional as I can potentially seem.
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Especially cause you can only run fast for so long in life, but being interesting can be, something that can stay with you forever.
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it's a lifelong pursuit.
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Absolutely.
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Well put.
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So let's start with, you talk about mastery, how would you define that?
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Well, I think mastery is kind of context independent.
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obviously there's an arena in which your experience allows you to have greater mastery over a specific topic.
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Like for me in the context of running, mastery of running, and I think most pursuits become mastery over the self.
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And so in my mind, it's about a depth of understanding.
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I would say that mastery is being able to understand the connections between seemingly desperate information.
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Mm.
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Okay.
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And, and you mentioned running in there.
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Did that help you to, did what you learned in running help you to?
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Oh yeah.
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I would not be the person that I am today without running.
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Running is kind of, I view it as the laboratory in which I've been able to examine different parts of self.
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Most of what happens in running is that you have a set amount of time to be moving.
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if you're running with people, then you're having whatever conversation is happening there.
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If you're running alone, then your thoughts are just, you know, it's a strong, it's a protected time for meditation, different structures you put in your life in order to perform at a high level, teaches you about the ability.
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To use the internal resources to mobilize external resources and vice versa.
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And how that level of the game you're able to, reinforce your energy just learn where your energy is best spent.
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And to do that, you have to understand who you are and what your goals are.
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my wife is a college advisor, she works with students of all types.
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And she always says that some of the most interesting, and accomplished, students she often finds are the runners.
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I wonder if that has anything to do with what you're saying, Like, about spending time with yourself and also, just having those runs with other folks where you're having these deep conversations, right.
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Well, I think the funding points to something, you know, I think that, in my experience, there's a forcing function of time pressure or the threat of pain that's going to reveal who you really are, And so it's like, move through life, holding up whatever masks that we've, been told that we have to carry or that we feel guilt for not carrying whatever identity it is that we're trying to hold onto or convince others, or maybe even convince ourselves that we have, but in the moments when, you get down to it in a race or during a hard workout, it's a proving ground where you're like, okay, you're saying you're the guy that's gonna.
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Push when things get hard, do it again and do it again and do it when the stakes are higher and do it when the stage is bigger and do it when more people are watching you doing it, do it with a, with a pressure just seems to be insurmountable.
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And so in that sense, running teaches you about.
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who you really are because it wears away everything else either through miles or through competition.
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For those of us who start later in life, like I started running in my mid 30s at first it was a bucket list item.
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we just want to run a Marathon to check it off, right?
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And I thought that I was done, right?
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Like, everybody who runs one, you're like, all right, this is it.
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Never again.
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Check.
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Move on.
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But I started learning about the pursuit of mastery.
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Through it as well, because down the road I got more into it and I've now done 13 of them I've got faster over time and you realize it is a pursuit of your own mastery as you go and putting yourself through that pain And then you realize that there's just so much more you can get out of yourself and life.
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If you don't pursue it as a bucket list, but just trying to get better, And I think running does a good job for that.
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the bucket list sort of thing.
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I think that's great.
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And I think a lot of people, if they want to be one and done with running a marathon or, whatever their goal is, sometimes for some people it's a local 5k and it has importance to them.
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But I think approaching the sport in that way puts you in a position where you're trying to impose something on it.
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it's a relationship between you and whatever it is that you're pursuing.
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In this case, we're talking about running, but mastery is that relationship.
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if you're coming at things from a perspective of like, Oh, I want to twist running to fit into this box.
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And then once it fits into that box, okay, I'm done.
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What happens when, when you try and do that, as you start noticing, it's, it's.
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It's too malleable and resistant for that.
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there's more to it.
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it takes on a life of its own for people that are open to seeing that it's alive in that way.
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Yeah.
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Oh man, that's so well put.
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I can see this, I can see why you've written poetry.
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how did that come about?
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I've always written for school and stuff like that, Language has been such an important piece for me because one of the core beliefs that I've held throughout my life that I'm doing my best to uproot right now because I know that it's a limiting belief is that I am alone, and I have to do things alone.
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And by leaning on language, it was a way to not be as alone and Transmit what I'm thinking about or what I'm feeling and my experience like reaffirm my reality in some way to others.
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And so I've owned this skill set of language to eloquently distill my thoughts and be able to communicate in a way that's going to allow somebody else to access it, as if there was some perfect communication I could get across that would make me be perfectly understood.
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as I've gotten older, I've noticed that I journal all the time.
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I have a strong journaling practice, and that's where a lot of this comes from, I'll pose a question to myself and imagine okay, well, What's the answer to this?
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how am I feeling about this?
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Or how am I relating to it now?
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And oftentimes I use that eloquence to try and cut through the nebulous confusion to find some sort of clarity.
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I use that discernment to get the concrete language of this is the truth as I see it for me at this moment.
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Wow.
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when you say you do it through journaling and, physically writing, I'm curious about the connection.
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Is there a connection with running on this?
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Like when you're out on your own, do the ideas for the poems actually, yeah, okay.
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I can't tell you how many runs I've stopped just for a moment so that I can, pull out my phone and jot down, a thought or two, I'll use this trick that's like, tying a string around your finger so you don't forget something, I'll do that with my watch, where I'll just, Undo my watch a little bit so that it's smacking around.
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And I'm like, Oh, that's annoying.
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But it's pulling me back to thinking about, Oh yeah, that's right.
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Remember that you wanted to do that thing or write that thing, or, some seed of inspiration hits you.
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Oh, wow.
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that's a great idea.
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You know, because I do some of my best thinking when I'm out on run, sometimes even when I have a problem, that's what I do is just take off with that problem.
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the way that I think about it is there are a lot of analogies talking about the mind as a body of water.
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And it's like the thoughts that you have throughout the day, it's like, you're stirring up all of this water and running is that meditative experience where you don't necessarily have to impose much structure or energy into your mind your mind is trying to handle the structure that's being imposed on it by And so, the way that I kind of think about that is it just allows everything to kind of settle into a natural place, and then you're able to see things more clearly through the water.
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Yeah.
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Do you meditate on your own?
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I do.
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I find that there's always resistance that pops up, in whatever form it's easy to say there's not enough time I've meditated on and off for three or four years now, but mostly I've tried to focus on taking my meditation off the cushion and tried to find moments, even, you know, in the experience like this, where I can drop into a space of feeling calm and embody my understanding of what it is to be aware and see all of the things that pop up because of that.
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Do you have your book on you?
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I have my first book.
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Yes.
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But my second book, I've got the proof copies, but I haven't got the final author yet.
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I've got the first one.
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Great.
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Well, I would love to ask you to read, one of your favorites if you could.
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Oh, for sure.
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Let's see.
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Which one do I go for?
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so a little bit of context about these, a lot of these poems are, bite sized, and I think about them as pithy, this is, the way this first collection happened I was jotting down small poems in my notes app they were seeds of something and I never really thought I would do anything with them But then I got to a point where I couldn't write anything else in the notes app because I had too much in there and it was like Take this out to google docs and I was like, oh, okay And so I you know, I just pulled it over and started refining things and I was like Well, I guess I have to actually do something with it.
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So like Shouts to that notes app really providing the impetus of actually getting something done Yeah This was the first poem that I wrote down in that notes app because I thought it was worthwhile this is called seedling bury me beneath the mountains.
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Let me rest where it is cool and dark Let me coil and compress Readying to birth from the earth.
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Let me get for when I come kill the sun.
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So I'm a big fan of recontextualization.
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in all of these poems, I've written the titles at the bottom so that you can read through it and then get like a, Oh, wait, that's what that was.
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And then go through it again.
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so this one was just kind of like, you know, it's really easy.
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To imagine things as dark or, aggressive or, in some way, antagonistic to the human condition.
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so I really liked that idea of there's this thing causing some sort of disruption.
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I talk about it in that poem about coming to kill the sun, but in reality, that's just shade and it's not anything.
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Wild, I've always been interested in the power of nature and the way that the timescales that nature works at is so much larger than the timescales that humans do.
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In that poem, it was just kind of a nod to nature and the forces that it has.
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Hmm.
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Interesting.
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So in, your first book Shore and Adrift.
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the subtitles from lighthouses to the deep, can you elaborate what you mean by that?
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And forgive me, since college, I probably haven't studied poetry.
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So my ability to, analyze some of these is not as good as it used to be, but I appreciate the art.
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Yeah, so the Lighthouses to the Deep is a reference to the structure of the book.
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I wrote it in a couple of different phases that go from, lighthearted poems that are easy entry, like anybody can read them and be interested in what they're saying.
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And then poems with a bit of an undercurrent of darkness and poems that are Acknowledging that life is not all sunshine and roses all the time.
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And then at the end, it brings you back up to where if you were to read the book in one sitting, you wouldn't just be left with like Oh man, that was heavy.
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And now I don't really want to engage with anything else for a little bit.
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and so from that lighthouses to the deep is kind of, acknowledging that everybody has.
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things in their lives that have happened to them or, things that they've seen that have impacted them in ways where they recognize that life isn't.
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What about your second book now?
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So you have a new one coming out.
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What are you calling it?
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This one is called On the Other Side of Comfort.
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it is kind of a look at human performance as rooted in human experience.
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the way that I think about that is I want to live the good life.
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I think everybody through one lens or another wants to live the good life, whether they've examined what that means to them or not.
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this is a call to encourage people to examine what the good life means for them and what performance means in that context.
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I think that High performance is something that is always going to pull you back to the weakest link in your chain.
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That's something you see in running all the time, for people that are brand new to the sport, their fitness just isn't there.
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eventually their fitness comes around and then maybe their mentality during racing isn't there.
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And so it's like you move through this progression of, what your limiting factor is.
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For me, I'm at a place in my career where I'm trying to deal with these big concepts like trust and conviction and trying to find their roots in, my life and how the patterns that I exhibit have their roots, way back in my experience, and recognizing that that's the case for everybody.
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This book aims at giving, some frameworks for ways to think about things that could potentially, provide some space between the narratives that they currently hold and the narratives that they could hold if they wanted to live a freer life.
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I love that running is the analogy where we're both associated with that teaches us some of these things, right?
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Just starting with the title, I'm assuming there's a running background behind that as well, right?
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we learn in running and that's why it's such a beautiful sport at any age we do learn to embrace discomfort embrace pain.
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When do you break through and have a great outcome?
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Right is when you embrace the pain cave as we call it, and we break through Seek it, and the more fit you get, the further away it gets, and it's only when you really can find it again embrace it, and get past it, that you have these major breakthroughs in life.
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And in running, in running you get to see that physically, whereas in life you may or may not, most people seek to avoid pain and discomfort.
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yet, here's a sport that teaches you to embrace it.
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And if we learn those lessons and apply it, right, then, in other areas of our life, we can really get far.
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Yeah.
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And I think one of the things that gives running the edge.
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In this analogy and using it as a springboard to talk about these other things is running is quantifiable.
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You can talk about, your paces and you can talk about your results and races and you, you know, it's very black and white and you're able to say Oh, I did better today.
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when you pull back from that context, things aren't necessarily so black and white in everyday life.
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we exist in a larger pattern than just the pattern of running, It's much harder and becomes much more nebulous I've tried to turn my attention towards what does a good life mean, and how do we perform in ways that further us along that path, both as individuals and as communities and larger societies, so that we can push forward.
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The entire human project towards flourishing.
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Yeah.
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Thank You you segwayed perfectly into that I did write down when you were talking what does the good life mean to you?
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Yeah, it's a great question.
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I think it's a moving target as well You know as we continue to grow things change and our priorities shift for me right now I am very interested in the idea of Wellness as I understand it.
00:18:30.060 --> 00:18:44.770
I think that there's You You know, there's, there's eight domains of wellness that kind of encapsulates a whole bunch of different stuff, but you know, there's like financial wellness, spiritual wellness, physical wellness, mental and emotional wellness, social wellness, environmental.
00:18:45.050 --> 00:18:57.760
and for me, I want to, I want to take honest stock of where I am with all of those things and see what needs to be improved What is fine the way that I'm currently doing things, but I'm kind of always striving to grow.
00:18:58.030 --> 00:19:01.461
And I think that growth is at the core of the good life for me.
00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:06.641
Like I know that people often talk about the good life, in a way that's synonymous with happiness.
00:19:07.050 --> 00:19:14.471
And I think that that's a bit off the mark because for me, this is one of those things that running teaches you, it's not about things being easy.
00:19:14.631 --> 00:19:17.121
It's about things being fulfilling and being worth it.
00:19:17.141 --> 00:19:22.290
And I've always been drawn to find whatever deeper meaning I can from any experience.
00:19:22.721 --> 00:19:32.490
So, contextualize all of that through the good life, through fulfillment, and orienting towards fulfillment rather than, something less.
00:19:34.276 --> 00:19:47.375
Substantial or sustainable, I'm also very interested in sustainability because it's not enough in my mind to live the good life for a year and then, explore hedonistic values like that's not me.
00:19:47.596 --> 00:19:47.945
Right.
00:19:47.955 --> 00:19:53.986
So I'm more interested in that sustainable piece of how to do the most good for me and my community long term.
00:19:54.185 --> 00:19:54.796
I love that.
00:19:54.945 --> 00:19:57.226
Oh, man, we are two birds of a feather here.
00:19:57.566 --> 00:20:10.105
my best friend from high school was here this past week We started talking about things and that came up I asked him, you know, we're now in our late 40s and he's gonna turn 50 this year that's a big number, right?
00:20:10.145 --> 00:20:11.625
that's a landmark number.
00:20:12.185 --> 00:20:15.615
we grew up in an underprivileged community, really poor.
00:20:15.625 --> 00:20:18.756
None of our parents went to college now we've both done well for ourselves.
00:20:18.806 --> 00:20:25.355
we raise our kids in nice homes, nice communities, and we live what we viewed as the good life.
00:20:26.036 --> 00:20:35.506
Growing up we've been able to provide a good life for our kids But I asked him hey What's next because we are at that stage where our kids Are moving on soon and they're going to be empty nesters, right?
00:20:35.506 --> 00:20:49.990
And this is something my wife and I have been discussing a lot And it was something like he he had not even thought about right And he's like, I'm happy, I come home from work, I watch TV, I have a beer, and then I go out on weekends with my wife and kids, and they're all good.
00:20:50.411 --> 00:20:57.270
And then the next day he got up and told me, you know what, I realized I had never thought about that, I've hit it, but I've really just been content.
00:20:57.750 --> 00:21:00.861
And now that you got me thinking about it, I just realized I'm just content.
00:21:00.971 --> 00:21:02.401
we haven't had another breakthrough.
00:21:02.401 --> 00:21:18.861
that constant pursuit, like you said, a moving target of growth, really is the good life, I'm more excited about my next 50 years than I was about my past 50, I can think bigger, the world is so much bigger, there's so much more opportunity to chase, and that pursuit is so exciting.
00:21:19.326 --> 00:21:22.266
I mean, in running, we talk a lot about purpose, right?
00:21:22.465 --> 00:21:23.105
Running is hard.
00:21:23.536 --> 00:21:24.705
Why come back to it?
00:21:24.955 --> 00:21:25.625
What keeps you here?
00:21:25.675 --> 00:21:28.796
the same thing is what I'm trying to, be grounded in.
00:21:29.086 --> 00:21:32.736
I want to be in touch with what this purpose is and what it means to me.
00:21:33.056 --> 00:21:45.016
within the context of running, my purpose is to live a life that embodies the values necessary for success well enough to compete at the highest level that I am capable of.
00:21:45.355 --> 00:21:53.915
And through that, I'm going to influence the community around me to do the same and embody those values throughout our culture.
00:21:54.105 --> 00:21:59.145
And I think that, if you're able to do that strong enough or long enough, you can shift the culture of.
00:21:59.560 --> 00:22:06.560
An entire region potentially global culture if you have enough people bought into it I love the concept of a laser, right?
00:22:06.611 --> 00:22:17.340
you only need something like 15 percent of light waves moving in unison in order to create a laser Whereas if you just had that scattered light, it's not doing anything.
00:22:17.530 --> 00:22:19.080
And so it's like the same kind of thing.
00:22:19.121 --> 00:22:31.121
culturally, if you have 15 percent of people that are in alignment and truly in touch and willing to put the work in, you can make massive shifts in the whole global culture and the way that people find themselves.
00:22:31.820 --> 00:22:44.580
you mentioned earlier, when you were talking about the good life, how you're at this point in your career, I'm curious as to what you see your career as, because I know we mentioned you're a professional runner, but now you're a poet, you're a designer.
00:22:44.681 --> 00:22:48.221
I try to not force them apart as much.
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:58.000
Like I think that my career, I kind of view as like whatever application of my knowledge I'm able to direct at this point.
00:22:58.310 --> 00:22:59.151
And so, you know, like I.
00:22:59.891 --> 00:23:02.631
I do consider running professional running my career.
00:23:02.681 --> 00:23:09.611
I also consider all of the creative pursuits that I have they're kind of like two sides of the same coin.
00:23:09.911 --> 00:23:14.161
I'm going back to school this fall to get a master's in strategic communication design.
00:23:14.211 --> 00:23:19.030
And I think that's something that can help me with the creative pursuits that I'm doing.
00:23:19.060 --> 00:23:28.060
I'm a small business owner and that's how I've been supporting myself for the past year, Fund the running as best as I can, in addition to a couple of other sources of support.
00:23:28.060 --> 00:23:36.691
Like Boulder is amazing because they have, it's so built into the culture that people care about performance and trying to, to strive and pursue that.
00:23:36.691 --> 00:23:44.550
Like there is, an organization called Aspire OTQ that was funding me over this past year to help me get to the Olympic trials where I qualified in two events.
00:23:44.770 --> 00:23:49.441
it's cool to be able to build into that community and That's the community I want to give back to.
00:23:49.570 --> 00:23:52.800
those are the people that see the worth of what we're doing here.
00:23:52.820 --> 00:23:56.510
I think there's room for me to use my creative skills in that sense as well.
00:23:56.691 --> 00:24:07.760
So it's like, nothing exists in a vacuum, you know, the things that I learned in my master's program are going to challenge my deeply held beliefs on the ways that I think communication exists in the world and the concepts that are attached to it.
00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:13.770
And those are the kinds of things that could potentially influence the way that I view running as well, even if it's a very minor shift.
00:24:14.580 --> 00:24:25.141
do you feel that, having, the artistic pursuits in a small business as well as running keeps you from achieving more in one or the other?
00:24:26.980 --> 00:24:27.510
I don't think so.
00:24:27.570 --> 00:24:36.010
I view, there's, the concept of rugged flexibility, and part of that is related to your identity.
00:24:36.310 --> 00:24:38.885
And I think I've had some experiences in my past.
00:24:38.925 --> 00:24:42.865
there was a point in time when I was all in on running and nothing else mattered to me in my life.
00:24:42.905 --> 00:24:49.486
This was when I was in high school and I got a stress fracture and I broke my knee.
00:24:49.516 --> 00:24:53.185
my femur literally couldn't handle the stress I was putting it under from the weight of training.
00:24:53.546 --> 00:25:02.236
And that was probably one of the darkest times in my life because I had defined myself only by this one thing.
00:25:02.516 --> 00:25:04.796
And then all of a sudden it was taken away from me.
00:25:05.195 --> 00:25:06.806
into that void, I just went screaming.
00:25:08.026 --> 00:25:08.645
it was terrible.
00:25:09.135 --> 00:25:13.425
and it was one of those things where it's like, okay, well, if I'm not that guy, then who am I?
00:25:13.776 --> 00:25:16.776
And I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I enjoy?
00:25:16.796 --> 00:25:17.695
what matters to me?
00:25:17.736 --> 00:25:21.355
that was when I started leaning more heavily into the artistic side of things.
00:25:21.586 --> 00:25:43.846
it helps provide, not just balance but harmony at some points running is going to be the highest thing in my life and the artistic stuff and you know all my other pursuits are going to kind of take a bit of a back seat but they're still there when I turn to them they can take center stage and running can dip back down a bit I'm not as interested in balance as I once was but I'm interested in harmony.
00:25:45.010 --> 00:25:45.790
Oh, well put.
00:25:46.191 --> 00:25:47.730
I salute you for that.
00:25:47.730 --> 00:25:59.141
I know especially people who were running is, is their only thing, you know, when they get injured and injuries are a part of running, it can cause some really big depression.
00:25:59.191 --> 00:26:05.941
I salute you for using that as an opportunity to grow in other areas I love how you put that, seeking harmony.
00:26:06.715 --> 00:26:07.695
that's a great way to put it.
00:26:08.895 --> 00:26:15.530
I ask because I started off the show by saying I've met many professional runners and it gets to a point where life is all about running.
00:26:15.730 --> 00:26:20.776
I've known folks who quit great corporate jobs, or career paths just to pursue running.
00:26:20.826 --> 00:26:36.965
they were good enough to make it worthwhile, they were just on the cusp of Olympic qualifying by quitting and making it their full time job they did, but they would basically wake up, run, nap, run, nap, sleep some more, and that's about it, it became not the funnest people to hang around with.
00:26:38.046 --> 00:26:38.556
Yeah.
00:26:38.766 --> 00:26:44.855
I think part of how I view the running journey is I want to be the absolute best that I can be, but I want to do it my way.
00:26:45.096 --> 00:26:48.155
I have a clear idea of what that looks like.
00:26:48.205 --> 00:26:57.955
sometimes I, have my days, especially long run days where I go for a two hour run in the morning and then I'm just like, Nope, I'm not doing anything else today.
00:26:58.465 --> 00:27:20.536
that's one of those times where, in service of harmony, running takes The center stage, but there are other times like most days for me where I spend a good portion of my time doing creative work or, engaged in other activities outside of running I think that helps you have a broader sense of your identity and the complexity of who you are is not just pigeonholed into one thing.
00:27:21.236 --> 00:27:21.915
Yeah, I love that.
00:27:22.655 --> 00:27:25.395
I want to back up to the good life talk again.
00:27:25.796 --> 00:27:26.935
They made a couple notes there.
00:27:27.675 --> 00:27:33.185
You said you were trying to understand a little bit more about trust and conviction With yourself.
00:27:33.365 --> 00:27:34.125
Can you elaborate on that?
00:27:35.445 --> 00:27:36.145
Yeah, for sure.
00:27:36.195 --> 00:27:44.556
I think that The way this has shown up for me historically is like, I get to competitions and it's like, you have to believe in yourself.
00:27:44.715 --> 00:27:44.955
Right.
00:27:44.955 --> 00:27:52.195
And I believe in my training and I trust my systems, but it's like in the moments that, you know, this is where running will pull away the mask for you.
00:27:52.195 --> 00:27:56.705
Because it's like, I can hold that mask to myself and I can say, yes, I believe fully in my ability to do it.
00:27:56.955 --> 00:28:01.276
But then when it comes that critical moment in the race, where it's like, This is it.
00:28:01.286 --> 00:28:04.816
You either get on that move or you're falling off the back and you are not winning this thing.
00:28:06.026 --> 00:28:11.405
My past handful of races have been like, I'm falling off the back and I'm like, what's going on here?
00:28:11.455 --> 00:28:16.885
So it's like, I'm trying to work on these experiences to like, what, okay, what do you need, dude?
00:28:16.915 --> 00:28:18.560
like having these conversations with myself.
00:28:18.661 --> 00:28:31.480
What is it that's going to make you feel like you got this whenever you show up at the line and being able to build that into where I'm able to show myself like, Hey man, you said that you wanted to have this many great workouts Here's your training log.
00:28:31.711 --> 00:28:32.270
You have done it.
00:28:32.471 --> 00:28:33.520
Go the line, believe it.
00:28:33.560 --> 00:28:33.921
Right.
00:28:33.990 --> 00:28:34.911
So it's that kind of thing.
00:28:35.161 --> 00:28:40.701
But on the other side, I have had experiences where I've fully trusted myself and these are some of my best performances.
00:28:41.101 --> 00:28:42.800
this past outdoor track season.
00:28:43.336 --> 00:28:44.865
My first race was a 5k.
00:28:45.556 --> 00:28:48.036
I don't run a ton of 5ks as a steeplechaser.
00:28:48.066 --> 00:28:54.766
I mainly focus on the steeplechase because it's one of those events that kind of takes a little bit in order to get good at it.
00:28:54.766 --> 00:28:55.806
This is my first one of the year.
00:28:55.826 --> 00:28:57.816
that helps to remember what this whole thing is.
00:28:58.165 --> 00:29:03.506
so going into this 5k, I took a little bit of the pressure off myself I know I'm fit, I'm just going to go and see what's there.
00:29:03.935 --> 00:29:05.336
I literally had this moment.
00:29:06.040 --> 00:29:09.441
When I was around 3k into a 5k, that's where things start getting really hard.
00:29:09.750 --> 00:29:18.701
I had, the version of me that was experiencing what it was to be at 3k and being like, Oh, I don't know, man.
00:29:18.750 --> 00:29:28.471
And then I had, a separate thought that was the version of me that was going to be dealing with the last K of the race, and that guy was like, just keep me in it, man.
00:29:28.830 --> 00:29:29.800
Trust that I can do this.
00:29:30.211 --> 00:29:36.490
I had this moment of feeling like those two versions of me saw eye to eye and they were like, okay.
00:29:36.941 --> 00:29:40.101
so I pushed really hard over the course of that next K.
00:29:40.181 --> 00:29:46.431
I ended up leading the race or leading my pack from pretty much that point to, 600 meters to go.
00:29:46.560 --> 00:29:50.921
even then I was still able to close really hard, it was that moment of like, dude, you got to trust me.
00:29:51.191 --> 00:29:55.740
And that, that, that version of me that was like asking for trust believed he could handle it.
00:29:56.260 --> 00:30:00.486
the version of me that was, needing to give the trust was like, okay, we can do this.
00:30:01.826 --> 00:30:05.746
Oh, man, I love, these internal conversations.
00:30:05.746 --> 00:30:06.855
I totally get it.
00:30:06.895 --> 00:30:13.726
even though, I haven't run at your level, I think any of us who really train hard for a race, to get the best out of ourselves.
00:30:13.726 --> 00:30:17.425
For me, it's a marathon I'm in pursuit of a sub three hour marathon.
00:30:17.455 --> 00:30:20.996
I'm at 303, 52 is what I just got.
00:30:21.145 --> 00:30:24.246
In tokyo, right I had the same dialogue i'm ready for it, right?
00:30:24.276 --> 00:31:02.346
I trained really hard better than and I really trained and I was I know where it's gonna come that moment, and I'm like, okay, I know I did the work this time, I'm going to give it my all, I know my mind wants to give up before my body does, and when it comes down, we're going to beat, the mind down, and push through, ironically, it never happened, these races are so special when you get there, you're there at the end, like you said, even at 600 meters, you still had it, and you can still, you know, Kick and it's such a great feeling and even though you've given it your all you probably end more pumped than You started I think what you're pointing to is that it's about running a race that you're proud of and living the effort that you're proud of.
00:31:02.385 --> 00:31:04.625
And that kind of encapsulates the good life for me.
00:31:04.625 --> 00:31:06.105
I want to live a life that I'm proud of.
00:31:08.971 --> 00:31:10.451
it can work the other way too, right?
00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:17.070
you have those races where you give up, that pain comes, your mind wants to quit, and you're like, yeah, I get it.
00:31:17.090 --> 00:31:17.871
Today's not the day.
00:31:17.871 --> 00:31:27.570
No matter what, no matter, you might justify it to yourself, no matter however you want it, however you want, you still, at the end, there's that, little devil on the side that's just like, I don't feel good about myself, right?
00:31:27.810 --> 00:31:28.101
Right.
00:31:28.611 --> 00:31:30.820
that's where purpose becomes important, right?
00:31:30.871 --> 00:31:36.340
if you're identified with the self that's experiencing the pain, then you're never going to look past it.
00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:38.931
You're never going to be able to sit down because the pain is all encompassing.
00:31:39.221 --> 00:31:48.300
But if you have a purpose that's larger than you, if you're on a college team, it's, like, Hey, my team needs me right now then what is my pain in the face of what this means.
00:31:48.586 --> 00:32:06.996
For our team and all of the work that we've all collectively put in, like whatever narrative you're going to tell yourself, it's like, that's what you're, if you're able to lean on a purpose that's strong enough, then, you know, it makes any, any suffering or discontentment you feel in the moment seem insignificant by comparison.
00:32:08.151 --> 00:32:08.590
Yeah.
00:32:08.691 --> 00:32:09.151
Oh, God.
00:32:09.151 --> 00:32:09.671
I love that.
00:32:10.171 --> 00:32:12.480
So what about, how you apply this.
00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:16.560
It's easy to use that with racing, Or running goals.
00:32:17.300 --> 00:32:22.661
and when you give it your all, even if you don't hit your goal, but you know you overcame that, you still feel good, right?
00:32:22.661 --> 00:32:28.461
You knew it's when you give in, but the pursuit of it, if you truly know you did it, is okay, right?
00:32:29.901 --> 00:32:35.570
and then I'm also wondering What you think about applying that in other areas?
00:32:35.580 --> 00:32:36.411
Like, how do you do that?
00:32:36.421 --> 00:32:39.490
Do you ask yourself a question like, hey, I want to be a gazillionaire.
00:32:39.681 --> 00:32:41.351
Well, do I really want to be a gazillionaire?
00:32:41.351 --> 00:32:44.590
It takes doing this, this, this, and that, and I'm not doing this, this, this, and that.
00:32:44.601 --> 00:32:44.911
Right?
00:32:44.961 --> 00:32:49.131
and that's the constant question and battle that we're having in a race or in our training.
00:32:49.881 --> 00:32:52.681
this is where the analogy really applies.
00:32:52.730 --> 00:32:53.060
Right.
00:32:53.131 --> 00:32:54.181
This is where the rubber meets the road.
00:32:54.550 --> 00:33:04.921
Yeah, I think, so much of this is based around having actual clarity in what you want, you know, like in running, we have the saying of like, it has to pass the gut check, right?
00:33:04.921 --> 00:33:07.111
Like, I could tell you right now, don't worry about it.
00:33:07.121 --> 00:33:10.980
You're going to get into Chicago and you're going to run 215.
00:33:11.300 --> 00:33:11.530
Right.
00:33:11.530 --> 00:33:14.601
And it's like, Oh, I don't know about that.
00:33:14.651 --> 00:33:18.800
you'll have that experience of Oh, that doesn't really pass my gut check because it doesn't feel real.
00:33:18.820 --> 00:33:23.040
It doesn't feel supported by the things that I've done in the past and it doesn't feel true to me.
00:33:23.320 --> 00:33:23.560
Right.
00:33:23.560 --> 00:33:29.530
And so I kind of use the same type of metric whenever I'm thinking about my goals, and there's tons of resources here.
00:33:29.580 --> 00:33:36.461
I was reading Designing Your Life, which is a really interesting book that kind of prompts these kinds of questions of like, okay, well, what are you trying to do here?
00:33:36.721 --> 00:33:44.240
And that's something that journaling has been really helpful for because I'm able to have this conversation with myself to be like, oh, gazillionaire, is that it for you?
00:33:44.300 --> 00:33:46.215
And it's like, No, not really.
00:33:46.215 --> 00:33:56.395
I just want enough financial stability to be able to live the life that I want, maybe buy a house someday, be able to support my family if it grows in ways that incorporate children, I want to be able to support that.
00:33:56.445 --> 00:34:00.726
provide for them and provide for myself and all the versions of me that never had the things that I want.
00:34:01.056 --> 00:34:01.226
Right.
00:34:01.405 --> 00:34:08.885
So it's like, I use this concept of past and future selves quite often, because I think it's a really helpful metric to Put myself in their shoes.
00:34:09.135 --> 00:34:16.675
It's like, yeah, the version of me that, grew up in a similar way that you did, he's going to be stoked to be in Boulder and living in the house that I do now.
00:34:16.896 --> 00:34:23.235
But yeah, the version of me that's going to come, you know, five years down the road is going to be like, Hey man, maybe we could have a house that would be great.
00:34:23.266 --> 00:34:25.885
So it's like, what can I do to help future me?
00:34:26.056 --> 00:34:28.175
and set him up well because he deserves it.
00:34:28.536 --> 00:34:37.766
So it's about cultivating this relationship with yourself to know yourself well enough and to love yourself enough to be able to act in alignment with who you actually are and what you actually care about.
00:34:37.925 --> 00:34:40.775
first for me, it's about clarity in that.
00:34:41.045 --> 00:34:46.905
And then it's about trying to, feel into what that experience is like, I guide myself a lot by.
00:34:47.626 --> 00:34:54.175
How things feel like, if I'm noticing a lot of frustration right now, what's the source of that?
00:34:54.215 --> 00:35:00.246
how do I live my life more in alignment with peace tranquility feeling alive and feeling inspired?
00:35:00.246 --> 00:35:05.346
Because I think that, you know, feeling alive and feeling inspired, that's fuel and you can use that fuel.
00:35:05.655 --> 00:35:17.335
in pursuit of the good life continuing to set yourself up in situations where you're going to experience more inspiration and feel more alive it's not necessarily a hedonistic, I'm only looking for the positive things.
00:35:17.335 --> 00:35:20.976
I recognize that those classically negative emotions have their place.
00:35:21.226 --> 00:35:28.485
And I think that they are signposts that tell you something, like if you act unwholesomely, and then you feel guilty.
00:35:28.496 --> 00:35:40.440
It's like, okay, well that guilt is telling you you care about that relationship, and maybe you should think about ways to, act more in alignment with who you are and those higher virtues and those pro social values So well said.
00:35:41.231 --> 00:35:43.431
Brian, we could keep going on this stuff forever.
00:35:43.431 --> 00:35:48.181
This is what I love to talk about the most, but for the sake of our listeners, and I know you've got things to do.
00:35:48.190 --> 00:35:52.820
So we'll, get into our famous Wayfinder 4, our world famous Wayfinder 4 here.
00:35:52.831 --> 00:35:53.311
You ready?
00:35:55.346 --> 00:35:55.846
All right, great.
00:35:55.876 --> 00:35:58.266
So give us a hack that you use every day.
00:35:59.695 --> 00:36:00.405
I think journaling.
00:36:00.585 --> 00:36:01.315
It's gotta be it.
00:36:01.706 --> 00:36:03.146
Yeah, that's a great one.
00:36:03.985 --> 00:36:05.385
How about a favorite?
00:36:06.175 --> 00:36:08.315
Could be, you know, book.
00:36:09.001 --> 00:36:14.231
one book that has been incredibly impactful to me and I keep coming back to is how to do the work by Dr.
00:36:14.231 --> 00:36:14.860
Nicole LaPera.
00:36:15.411 --> 00:36:16.440
super fascinating.
00:36:16.490 --> 00:36:21.740
it helps you understand your relationship to past versions of you and uproot the patterns that are holding you back.
00:36:23.090 --> 00:36:26.061
Wow, that's, never heard that one before, I'm going to have to check that out.
00:36:26.871 --> 00:36:29.331
how about a piece of advice for your younger self?
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:38.420
change is possible and it's something to be embraced.
00:36:41.510 --> 00:36:42.001
Love that.
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:44.871
How about a big opportunity?
00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:46.001
Chasing.
00:36:46.460 --> 00:36:47.670
Or you see out there right now.
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:51.960
Oh yeah, definitely the biggest opportunity on the horizon for me.
00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:58.041
I'm kind of split actually, because the big opportunity is being able to promote my second book and build community around it.
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:05.601
the bigger opportunity I feel is going back to school and getting a second master's in strategic communication design.
00:37:06.690 --> 00:37:07.081
Excellent.
00:37:09.240 --> 00:37:12.050
Brian, if people want to know more about you, how can they find you?
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:17.210
Yeah, I'm on Instagram as, be razzle dazzle 5k.
00:37:17.210 --> 00:37:22.880
And, the team that I run for roots running is also on, Instagram as the roots running project.
00:37:23.541 --> 00:37:25.760
I have a website, incandecoscreative.
00:37:26.110 --> 00:37:26.471
com.
00:37:27.260 --> 00:37:30.221
I'm super available if people want to reach out, always happy to.
00:37:30.621 --> 00:37:33.141
chat in the comments or, any sort of DMS.
00:37:34.451 --> 00:37:34.851
Excellent.
00:37:34.990 --> 00:37:35.411
Thank you.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.690
can you mention a little bit more about, the root running group?
00:37:38.701 --> 00:37:44.760
they've kind of become a staple and an iconic elite running group in Boulder There is a lot of running elite running groups, right?
00:37:44.760 --> 00:38:01.570
I mean, it's kind of a mecca of professional runner And i've seen over the years there I've now been in colorado almost 15 years nine of them in the boulder area and I got to know a lot of those groups and a lot of them come and Go but roots is when they started out They've been around for quite a bit now and have a legendary following now.
00:38:01.570 --> 00:38:02.981
So can you talk a little about them?
00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:04.510
Yeah, definitely.
00:38:04.871 --> 00:38:07.581
Roots is a blue collar team.
00:38:07.630 --> 00:38:14.771
everybody on the team has other things they're balancing with their running careers and trying to pursue running at the highest level they possibly can.
00:38:15.130 --> 00:38:20.331
we've got people that run distances from the mile to the marathon.
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:25.900
And at all different types of levels, a lot of us are around the U.
00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:26.041
S.
00:38:26.041 --> 00:38:27.820
championship caliber athletes.
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:31.150
some of us are pushing to try and get more towards that Olympic caliber athlete.
00:38:31.510 --> 00:38:35.840
but, you know, we're all super, yeah, it's, it's a great community.
00:38:35.891 --> 00:38:36.880
We've got a great culture.
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:43.251
Everybody's very supportive and interested in, like, genuinely interested in other people's lives trying to help each other along the way.
00:38:43.251 --> 00:38:49.530
Thanks I've known a few of your athletes over the years and I, I think you have an amazing team I wish I could keep up with you guys.
00:38:49.530 --> 00:38:55.121
You need to start a master's group for semi elite, I'll talk to Richie about it.
00:38:55.271 --> 00:38:55.791
that'd be great.
00:38:57.101 --> 00:38:59.550
Well, Brian, thank you so much for being on the show today.
00:38:59.550 --> 00:39:01.170
This has been a great conversation.
00:39:01.471 --> 00:39:07.541
anytime I get a chance to talk to a fellow runner and how to relate our running lessons to life, I'm a happy guy.
00:39:07.541 --> 00:39:12.721
I really am grateful for you being here and, I hope our listeners enjoyed having you here as well.
00:39:13.581 --> 00:39:14.101
Yeah, definitely.
00:39:14.101 --> 00:39:14.871
Thank you for having me.
00:39:14.871 --> 00:39:22.050
it's always great to be able to use my life experience as something that could potentially be useful to someone in a moment when they need it.
00:39:22.786 --> 00:39:23.905
Yeah, absolutely.
00:39:24.025 --> 00:39:28.565
Well, hopefully we'll have you back on, after your book comes out and, as you keep developing.
00:39:29.456 --> 00:39:29.735
Yeah.
00:39:30.126 --> 00:39:30.385
Thanks.
00:39:30.436 --> 00:39:30.766
Take care.
00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:13.900
It's, it's about cultivating this relationship with yourself to, to know yourself well enough and to love yourself enough to be able to act in alignment with who you actually are and what you actually care about.
00:00:14.089 --> 00:00:16.839
First for me, it's about clarity in that.
00:00:17.190 --> 00:00:20.989
And then it's about trying to feel into what that experience is like.
00:00:21.269 --> 00:00:29.094
I guide myself a lot by how things feel like if I'm noticing a lot, Oh, Frustration right now.
00:00:29.344 --> 00:00:30.274
What's the source of that?
00:00:30.324 --> 00:00:36.164
How do I live my life more in alignment with peace, tranquility, feeling alive and feeling inspired.
00:00:46.310 --> 00:00:57.590
Welcome to the Wayfinder show with Louie Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.
00:00:58.770 --> 00:01:06.700
Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
00:01:07.969 --> 00:01:19.781
Come join us and find the way to your dream life.
00:01:19.896 --> 00:01:21.506
Welcome back to the Wayfinder show.
00:01:21.506 --> 00:01:23.215
I'm your host, Louis Hernandez.
00:01:23.486 --> 00:01:25.626
today we are here with Brian Barraza.
00:01:26.215 --> 00:01:35.296
as you guys know, I'm a running geek, so we run the danger of getting into running geekiness today because Brian is a professional runner.
00:01:35.546 --> 00:01:37.176
but he's also, much more than that.
00:01:37.346 --> 00:01:38.915
And that's what we hope to talk about.
00:01:39.215 --> 00:01:41.855
he's also an artist, a designer, and an author.
00:01:42.365 --> 00:01:48.396
He's the author of A Shore in the Drift from Lighthouses to the Deep, which is a collection of poems.
00:01:49.046 --> 00:01:53.945
his pursuit of mastery has led him to dive deeply into examining what it means to be human.
00:01:54.506 --> 00:02:01.766
In his new book, he wants to share that no matter how far adrift you may feel, it's always possible to come back to shore.
00:02:02.415 --> 00:02:14.216
Today, he joins us from Boulder, Colorado, to talk about his collection of poetry, The Nature of Life with the Human Experience, and Frameworks for Performance in Pursuit of the Good Life.
00:02:14.925 --> 00:02:16.545
Brian, welcome to The Wayfinder Show.
00:02:17.846 --> 00:02:18.596
Thank you for having me.
00:02:18.605 --> 00:02:19.156
It's good to be here.
00:02:19.455 --> 00:02:26.336
So, as I mentioned before the show, we had a little bit of a discussion and I mentioned that I've been, around the Boulder running scene for a while.
00:02:26.336 --> 00:02:29.045
Obviously, I've never been a professional runner but I know it.
00:02:29.096 --> 00:02:31.135
I always wish I could have been, but never did.
00:02:31.265 --> 00:02:34.045
I appreciate the scene and got to know a lot of professional runners.
00:02:34.496 --> 00:02:46.686
after a while, when I got to, you know, Dude, I'm probably going to offend some of them here, unfortunately, but, you know, I realize that to be a professional runner, running has to consume you and really take over your life.
00:02:47.075 --> 00:02:57.806
As much as I was a fanboy being around so many of your peers I started to realize that maybe i'm grateful for my life I don't have that life because there's so much more to it.
00:02:58.336 --> 00:03:01.816
And when we first started, Looking at having you on the wayfinder show.
00:03:01.816 --> 00:03:08.006
I wasn't too sure about that because I thought, okay, we're just going to talk about professional running, but then you have a lot more to you.
00:03:08.066 --> 00:03:11.026
writing books about poetry designing and everything.
00:03:11.026 --> 00:03:12.475
this is a really interesting guy.
00:03:12.545 --> 00:03:14.175
I'm really grateful to have you here for that.
00:03:14.506 --> 00:03:14.866
Thank you.
00:03:15.075 --> 00:03:21.746
I think one of the best compliments I've ever been given in my life was that how fast I can run is the least interesting thing about me.
00:03:22.086 --> 00:03:30.985
So hopefully I'll be able to expand on that a little bit and, show more of who I am so that I'm not as, one dimensional as I can potentially seem.
00:03:31.425 --> 00:03:37.086
Especially cause you can only run fast for so long in life, but being interesting can be, something that can stay with you forever.
00:03:37.086 --> 00:03:37.765
it's a lifelong pursuit.
00:03:38.455 --> 00:03:39.195
Absolutely.
00:03:39.235 --> 00:03:39.765
Well put.
00:03:39.825 --> 00:03:43.876
So let's start with, you talk about mastery, how would you define that?
00:03:45.996 --> 00:03:50.056
Well, I think mastery is kind of context independent.
00:03:50.165 --> 00:03:59.015
obviously there's an arena in which your experience allows you to have greater mastery over a specific topic.
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Like for me in the context of running, mastery of running, and I think most pursuits become mastery over the self.
00:04:07.056 --> 00:04:11.846
And so in my mind, it's about a depth of understanding.
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I would say that mastery is being able to understand the connections between seemingly desperate information.
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Mm.
00:04:22.966 --> 00:04:23.415
Okay.
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And, and you mentioned running in there.
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Did that help you to, did what you learned in running help you to?
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Oh yeah.
00:04:30.935 --> 00:04:33.365
I would not be the person that I am today without running.
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Running is kind of, I view it as the laboratory in which I've been able to examine different parts of self.
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Most of what happens in running is that you have a set amount of time to be moving.
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if you're running with people, then you're having whatever conversation is happening there.
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If you're running alone, then your thoughts are just, you know, it's a strong, it's a protected time for meditation, different structures you put in your life in order to perform at a high level, teaches you about the ability.
00:05:03.016 --> 00:05:08.266
To use the internal resources to mobilize external resources and vice versa.
00:05:08.536 --> 00:05:14.906
And how that level of the game you're able to, reinforce your energy just learn where your energy is best spent.
00:05:15.255 --> 00:05:18.685
And to do that, you have to understand who you are and what your goals are.
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my wife is a college advisor, she works with students of all types.
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And she always says that some of the most interesting, and accomplished, students she often finds are the runners.
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I wonder if that has anything to do with what you're saying, Like, about spending time with yourself and also, just having those runs with other folks where you're having these deep conversations, right.
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Well, I think the funding points to something, you know, I think that, in my experience, there's a forcing function of time pressure or the threat of pain that's going to reveal who you really are, And so it's like, move through life, holding up whatever masks that we've, been told that we have to carry or that we feel guilt for not carrying whatever identity it is that we're trying to hold onto or convince others, or maybe even convince ourselves that we have, but in the moments when, you get down to it in a race or during a hard workout, it's a proving ground where you're like, okay, you're saying you're the guy that's gonna.
00:06:16.690 --> 00:06:27.920
Push when things get hard, do it again and do it again and do it when the stakes are higher and do it when the stage is bigger and do it when more people are watching you doing it, do it with a, with a pressure just seems to be insurmountable.
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And so in that sense, running teaches you about.
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who you really are because it wears away everything else either through miles or through competition.
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For those of us who start later in life, like I started running in my mid 30s at first it was a bucket list item.
00:06:46.175 --> 00:06:49.026
we just want to run a Marathon to check it off, right?
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And I thought that I was done, right?
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Like, everybody who runs one, you're like, all right, this is it.
00:06:53.225 --> 00:06:53.995
Never again.
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Check.
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Move on.
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But I started learning about the pursuit of mastery.
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Through it as well, because down the road I got more into it and I've now done 13 of them I've got faster over time and you realize it is a pursuit of your own mastery as you go and putting yourself through that pain And then you realize that there's just so much more you can get out of yourself and life.
00:07:19.440 --> 00:07:26.021
If you don't pursue it as a bucket list, but just trying to get better, And I think running does a good job for that.
00:07:26.610 --> 00:07:27.841
the bucket list sort of thing.
00:07:28.081 --> 00:07:29.060
I think that's great.
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And I think a lot of people, if they want to be one and done with running a marathon or, whatever their goal is, sometimes for some people it's a local 5k and it has importance to them.
00:07:38.180 --> 00:07:45.071
But I think approaching the sport in that way puts you in a position where you're trying to impose something on it.
00:07:45.495 --> 00:07:49.576
it's a relationship between you and whatever it is that you're pursuing.
00:07:49.576 --> 00:07:53.196
In this case, we're talking about running, but mastery is that relationship.
00:07:53.255 --> 00:07:59.165
if you're coming at things from a perspective of like, Oh, I want to twist running to fit into this box.
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And then once it fits into that box, okay, I'm done.
00:08:02.586 --> 00:08:06.045
What happens when, when you try and do that, as you start noticing, it's, it's.
00:08:06.656 --> 00:08:08.315
It's too malleable and resistant for that.
00:08:08.336 --> 00:08:08.995
there's more to it.
00:08:09.036 --> 00:08:13.086
it takes on a life of its own for people that are open to seeing that it's alive in that way.
00:08:13.545 --> 00:08:13.935
Yeah.
00:08:14.266 --> 00:08:15.526
Oh man, that's so well put.
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I can see this, I can see why you've written poetry.
00:08:22.165 --> 00:08:23.276
how did that come about?
00:08:23.286 --> 00:08:37.706
I've always written for school and stuff like that, Language has been such an important piece for me because one of the core beliefs that I've held throughout my life that I'm doing my best to uproot right now because I know that it's a limiting belief is that I am alone, and I have to do things alone.
00:08:38.306 --> 00:08:51.596
And by leaning on language, it was a way to not be as alone and Transmit what I'm thinking about or what I'm feeling and my experience like reaffirm my reality in some way to others.
00:08:51.785 --> 00:09:06.326
And so I've owned this skill set of language to eloquently distill my thoughts and be able to communicate in a way that's going to allow somebody else to access it, as if there was some perfect communication I could get across that would make me be perfectly understood.
00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:11.000
as I've gotten older, I've noticed that I journal all the time.
00:09:11.051 --> 00:09:18.061
I have a strong journaling practice, and that's where a lot of this comes from, I'll pose a question to myself and imagine okay, well, What's the answer to this?
00:09:18.061 --> 00:09:19.020
how am I feeling about this?
00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:20.221
Or how am I relating to it now?
00:09:20.221 --> 00:09:27.600
And oftentimes I use that eloquence to try and cut through the nebulous confusion to find some sort of clarity.
00:09:27.811 --> 00:09:33.260
I use that discernment to get the concrete language of this is the truth as I see it for me at this moment.
00:09:35.230 --> 00:09:35.650
Wow.
00:09:36.130 --> 00:09:41.140
when you say you do it through journaling and, physically writing, I'm curious about the connection.
00:09:41.191 --> 00:09:43.221
Is there a connection with running on this?
00:09:43.221 --> 00:09:47.500
Like when you're out on your own, do the ideas for the poems actually, yeah, okay.
00:09:47.995 --> 00:10:02.061
I can't tell you how many runs I've stopped just for a moment so that I can, pull out my phone and jot down, a thought or two, I'll use this trick that's like, tying a string around your finger so you don't forget something, I'll do that with my watch, where I'll just, Undo my watch a little bit so that it's smacking around.
00:10:02.061 --> 00:10:03.120
And I'm like, Oh, that's annoying.
00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.410
But it's pulling me back to thinking about, Oh yeah, that's right.
00:10:05.410 --> 00:10:10.400
Remember that you wanted to do that thing or write that thing, or, some seed of inspiration hits you.
00:10:11.321 --> 00:10:11.850
Oh, wow.
00:10:11.910 --> 00:10:12.551
that's a great idea.
00:10:12.551 --> 00:10:20.980
You know, because I do some of my best thinking when I'm out on run, sometimes even when I have a problem, that's what I do is just take off with that problem.
00:10:21.870 --> 00:10:26.980
the way that I think about it is there are a lot of analogies talking about the mind as a body of water.
00:10:27.030 --> 00:10:52.725
And it's like the thoughts that you have throughout the day, it's like, you're stirring up all of this water and running is that meditative experience where you don't necessarily have to impose much structure or energy into your mind your mind is trying to handle the structure that's being imposed on it by And so, the way that I kind of think about that is it just allows everything to kind of settle into a natural place, and then you're able to see things more clearly through the water.
00:10:53.076 --> 00:10:53.475
Yeah.
00:10:53.716 --> 00:10:54.956
Do you meditate on your own?
00:10:54.956 --> 00:10:55.456
I do.
00:10:55.505 --> 00:11:22.885
I find that there's always resistance that pops up, in whatever form it's easy to say there's not enough time I've meditated on and off for three or four years now, but mostly I've tried to focus on taking my meditation off the cushion and tried to find moments, even, you know, in the experience like this, where I can drop into a space of feeling calm and embody my understanding of what it is to be aware and see all of the things that pop up because of that.
00:11:23.826 --> 00:11:24.785
Do you have your book on you?
00:11:26.255 --> 00:11:27.416
I have my first book.
00:11:27.426 --> 00:11:27.905
Yes.
00:11:27.956 --> 00:11:32.296
But my second book, I've got the proof copies, but I haven't got the final author yet.
00:11:32.966 --> 00:11:33.716
I've got the first one.
00:11:34.346 --> 00:11:34.625
Great.
00:11:34.625 --> 00:11:37.615
Well, I would love to ask you to read, one of your favorites if you could.
00:11:38.471 --> 00:11:39.360
Oh, for sure.
00:11:39.451 --> 00:11:40.010
Let's see.
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:41.311
Which one do I go for?
00:11:42.811 --> 00:12:14.841
so a little bit of context about these, a lot of these poems are, bite sized, and I think about them as pithy, this is, the way this first collection happened I was jotting down small poems in my notes app they were seeds of something and I never really thought I would do anything with them But then I got to a point where I couldn't write anything else in the notes app because I had too much in there and it was like Take this out to google docs and I was like, oh, okay And so I you know, I just pulled it over and started refining things and I was like Well, I guess I have to actually do something with it.
00:12:14.850 --> 00:12:30.341
So like Shouts to that notes app really providing the impetus of actually getting something done Yeah This was the first poem that I wrote down in that notes app because I thought it was worthwhile this is called seedling bury me beneath the mountains.
00:12:30.850 --> 00:12:37.296
Let me rest where it is cool and dark Let me coil and compress Readying to birth from the earth.
00:12:37.895 --> 00:12:41.346
Let me get for when I come kill the sun.
00:12:45.515 --> 00:12:47.926
So I'm a big fan of recontextualization.
00:12:47.985 --> 00:12:56.785
in all of these poems, I've written the titles at the bottom so that you can read through it and then get like a, Oh, wait, that's what that was.
00:12:56.785 --> 00:12:57.865
And then go through it again.
00:12:58.135 --> 00:13:01.346
so this one was just kind of like, you know, it's really easy.
00:13:02.456 --> 00:13:11.375
To imagine things as dark or, aggressive or, in some way, antagonistic to the human condition.
00:13:11.375 --> 00:13:16.956
so I really liked that idea of there's this thing causing some sort of disruption.
00:13:17.336 --> 00:13:23.191
I talk about it in that poem about coming to kill the sun, but in reality, that's just shade and it's not anything.
00:13:24.581 --> 00:13:36.600
Wild, I've always been interested in the power of nature and the way that the timescales that nature works at is so much larger than the timescales that humans do.
00:13:37.441 --> 00:13:41.730
In that poem, it was just kind of a nod to nature and the forces that it has.
00:13:42.510 --> 00:13:42.880
Hmm.
00:13:44.010 --> 00:13:44.360
Interesting.
00:13:44.461 --> 00:13:47.341
So in, your first book Shore and Adrift.
00:13:48.275 --> 00:13:53.645
the subtitles from lighthouses to the deep, can you elaborate what you mean by that?
00:13:53.645 --> 00:13:56.735
And forgive me, since college, I probably haven't studied poetry.
00:13:57.005 --> 00:14:02.326
So my ability to, analyze some of these is not as good as it used to be, but I appreciate the art.
00:14:03.990 --> 00:14:10.280
Yeah, so the Lighthouses to the Deep is a reference to the structure of the book.
00:14:10.551 --> 00:14:19.350
I wrote it in a couple of different phases that go from, lighthearted poems that are easy entry, like anybody can read them and be interested in what they're saying.
00:14:19.980 --> 00:14:27.301
And then poems with a bit of an undercurrent of darkness and poems that are Acknowledging that life is not all sunshine and roses all the time.
00:14:27.321 --> 00:14:33.910
And then at the end, it brings you back up to where if you were to read the book in one sitting, you wouldn't just be left with like Oh man, that was heavy.
00:14:33.910 --> 00:14:38.000
And now I don't really want to engage with anything else for a little bit.
00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:42.230
and so from that lighthouses to the deep is kind of, acknowledging that everybody has.
00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:49.740
things in their lives that have happened to them or, things that they've seen that have impacted them in ways where they recognize that life isn't.
00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:52.530
What about your second book now?
00:14:52.530 --> 00:14:53.780
So you have a new one coming out.
00:14:54.431 --> 00:14:55.311
What are you calling it?
00:14:56.291 --> 00:14:59.201
This one is called On the Other Side of Comfort.
00:14:59.610 --> 00:15:07.451
it is kind of a look at human performance as rooted in human experience.
00:15:08.291 --> 00:15:14.551
the way that I think about that is I want to live the good life.
00:15:14.730 --> 00:15:21.245
I think everybody through one lens or another wants to live the good life, whether they've examined what that means to them or not.
00:15:21.515 --> 00:15:30.005
this is a call to encourage people to examine what the good life means for them and what performance means in that context.
00:15:30.515 --> 00:15:35.000
I think that High performance is something that is always going to pull you back to the weakest link in your chain.
00:15:35.010 --> 00:15:40.831
That's something you see in running all the time, for people that are brand new to the sport, their fitness just isn't there.
00:15:40.990 --> 00:15:45.240
eventually their fitness comes around and then maybe their mentality during racing isn't there.
00:15:46.051 --> 00:15:50.571
And so it's like you move through this progression of, what your limiting factor is.
00:15:51.020 --> 00:16:11.686
For me, I'm at a place in my career where I'm trying to deal with these big concepts like trust and conviction and trying to find their roots in, my life and how the patterns that I exhibit have their roots, way back in my experience, and recognizing that that's the case for everybody.
00:16:11.946 --> 00:16:25.596
This book aims at giving, some frameworks for ways to think about things that could potentially, provide some space between the narratives that they currently hold and the narratives that they could hold if they wanted to live a freer life.
00:16:26.760 --> 00:16:32.321
I love that running is the analogy where we're both associated with that teaches us some of these things, right?
00:16:32.331 --> 00:16:37.571
Just starting with the title, I'm assuming there's a running background behind that as well, right?
00:16:37.870 --> 00:16:45.360
we learn in running and that's why it's such a beautiful sport at any age we do learn to embrace discomfort embrace pain.
00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.000
When do you break through and have a great outcome?
00:16:48.000 --> 00:17:02.216
Right is when you embrace the pain cave as we call it, and we break through Seek it, and the more fit you get, the further away it gets, and it's only when you really can find it again embrace it, and get past it, that you have these major breakthroughs in life.
00:17:03.346 --> 00:17:10.976
And in running, in running you get to see that physically, whereas in life you may or may not, most people seek to avoid pain and discomfort.
00:17:11.056 --> 00:17:14.885
yet, here's a sport that teaches you to embrace it.
00:17:15.066 --> 00:17:20.955
And if we learn those lessons and apply it, right, then, in other areas of our life, we can really get far.
00:17:21.685 --> 00:17:21.996
Yeah.
00:17:22.076 --> 00:17:24.195
And I think one of the things that gives running the edge.
00:17:24.810 --> 00:17:31.030
In this analogy and using it as a springboard to talk about these other things is running is quantifiable.
00:17:31.191 --> 00:17:39.520
You can talk about, your paces and you can talk about your results and races and you, you know, it's very black and white and you're able to say Oh, I did better today.
00:17:39.790 --> 00:17:45.211
when you pull back from that context, things aren't necessarily so black and white in everyday life.
00:17:45.310 --> 00:18:04.421
we exist in a larger pattern than just the pattern of running, It's much harder and becomes much more nebulous I've tried to turn my attention towards what does a good life mean, and how do we perform in ways that further us along that path, both as individuals and as communities and larger societies, so that we can push forward.
00:18:04.760 --> 00:18:07.131
The entire human project towards flourishing.
00:18:07.671 --> 00:18:07.990
Yeah.
00:18:08.310 --> 00:18:14.030
Thank You you segwayed perfectly into that I did write down when you were talking what does the good life mean to you?
00:18:15.260 --> 00:18:16.500
Yeah, it's a great question.
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:30.060
I think it's a moving target as well You know as we continue to grow things change and our priorities shift for me right now I am very interested in the idea of Wellness as I understand it.
00:18:30.060 --> 00:18:44.770
I think that there's You You know, there's, there's eight domains of wellness that kind of encapsulates a whole bunch of different stuff, but you know, there's like financial wellness, spiritual wellness, physical wellness, mental and emotional wellness, social wellness, environmental.
00:18:45.050 --> 00:18:57.760
and for me, I want to, I want to take honest stock of where I am with all of those things and see what needs to be improved What is fine the way that I'm currently doing things, but I'm kind of always striving to grow.
00:18:58.030 --> 00:19:01.461
And I think that growth is at the core of the good life for me.
00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:06.641
Like I know that people often talk about the good life, in a way that's synonymous with happiness.
00:19:07.050 --> 00:19:14.471
And I think that that's a bit off the mark because for me, this is one of those things that running teaches you, it's not about things being easy.
00:19:14.631 --> 00:19:17.121
It's about things being fulfilling and being worth it.
00:19:17.141 --> 00:19:22.290
And I've always been drawn to find whatever deeper meaning I can from any experience.
00:19:22.721 --> 00:19:32.490
So, contextualize all of that through the good life, through fulfillment, and orienting towards fulfillment rather than, something less.
00:19:34.276 --> 00:19:47.375
Substantial or sustainable, I'm also very interested in sustainability because it's not enough in my mind to live the good life for a year and then, explore hedonistic values like that's not me.
00:19:47.596 --> 00:19:47.945
Right.
00:19:47.955 --> 00:19:53.986
So I'm more interested in that sustainable piece of how to do the most good for me and my community long term.
00:19:54.185 --> 00:19:54.796
I love that.
00:19:54.945 --> 00:19:57.226
Oh, man, we are two birds of a feather here.
00:19:57.566 --> 00:20:10.105
my best friend from high school was here this past week We started talking about things and that came up I asked him, you know, we're now in our late 40s and he's gonna turn 50 this year that's a big number, right?
00:20:10.145 --> 00:20:11.625
that's a landmark number.
00:20:12.185 --> 00:20:15.615
we grew up in an underprivileged community, really poor.
00:20:15.625 --> 00:20:18.756
None of our parents went to college now we've both done well for ourselves.
00:20:18.806 --> 00:20:25.355
we raise our kids in nice homes, nice communities, and we live what we viewed as the good life.
00:20:26.036 --> 00:20:35.506
Growing up we've been able to provide a good life for our kids But I asked him hey What's next because we are at that stage where our kids Are moving on soon and they're going to be empty nesters, right?
00:20:35.506 --> 00:20:49.990
And this is something my wife and I have been discussing a lot And it was something like he he had not even thought about right And he's like, I'm happy, I come home from work, I watch TV, I have a beer, and then I go out on weekends with my wife and kids, and they're all good.
00:20:50.411 --> 00:20:57.270
And then the next day he got up and told me, you know what, I realized I had never thought about that, I've hit it, but I've really just been content.
00:20:57.750 --> 00:21:00.861
And now that you got me thinking about it, I just realized I'm just content.
00:21:00.971 --> 00:21:02.401
we haven't had another breakthrough.
00:21:02.401 --> 00:21:18.861
that constant pursuit, like you said, a moving target of growth, really is the good life, I'm more excited about my next 50 years than I was about my past 50, I can think bigger, the world is so much bigger, there's so much more opportunity to chase, and that pursuit is so exciting.
00:21:19.326 --> 00:21:22.266
I mean, in running, we talk a lot about purpose, right?
00:21:22.465 --> 00:21:23.105
Running is hard.
00:21:23.536 --> 00:21:24.705
Why come back to it?
00:21:24.955 --> 00:21:25.625
What keeps you here?
00:21:25.675 --> 00:21:28.796
the same thing is what I'm trying to, be grounded in.
00:21:29.086 --> 00:21:32.736
I want to be in touch with what this purpose is and what it means to me.
00:21:33.056 --> 00:21:45.016
within the context of running, my purpose is to live a life that embodies the values necessary for success well enough to compete at the highest level that I am capable of.
00:21:45.355 --> 00:21:53.915
And through that, I'm going to influence the community around me to do the same and embody those values throughout our culture.
00:21:54.105 --> 00:21:59.145
And I think that, if you're able to do that strong enough or long enough, you can shift the culture of.
00:21:59.560 --> 00:22:06.560
An entire region potentially global culture if you have enough people bought into it I love the concept of a laser, right?
00:22:06.611 --> 00:22:17.340
you only need something like 15 percent of light waves moving in unison in order to create a laser Whereas if you just had that scattered light, it's not doing anything.
00:22:17.530 --> 00:22:19.080
And so it's like the same kind of thing.
00:22:19.121 --> 00:22:31.121
culturally, if you have 15 percent of people that are in alignment and truly in touch and willing to put the work in, you can make massive shifts in the whole global culture and the way that people find themselves.
00:22:31.820 --> 00:22:44.580
you mentioned earlier, when you were talking about the good life, how you're at this point in your career, I'm curious as to what you see your career as, because I know we mentioned you're a professional runner, but now you're a poet, you're a designer.
00:22:44.681 --> 00:22:48.221
I try to not force them apart as much.
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:58.000
Like I think that my career, I kind of view as like whatever application of my knowledge I'm able to direct at this point.
00:22:58.310 --> 00:22:59.151
And so, you know, like I.
00:22:59.891 --> 00:23:02.631
I do consider running professional running my career.
00:23:02.681 --> 00:23:09.611
I also consider all of the creative pursuits that I have they're kind of like two sides of the same coin.
00:23:09.911 --> 00:23:14.161
I'm going back to school this fall to get a master's in strategic communication design.
00:23:14.211 --> 00:23:19.030
And I think that's something that can help me with the creative pursuits that I'm doing.
00:23:19.060 --> 00:23:28.060
I'm a small business owner and that's how I've been supporting myself for the past year, Fund the running as best as I can, in addition to a couple of other sources of support.
00:23:28.060 --> 00:23:36.691
Like Boulder is amazing because they have, it's so built into the culture that people care about performance and trying to, to strive and pursue that.
00:23:36.691 --> 00:23:44.550
Like there is, an organization called Aspire OTQ that was funding me over this past year to help me get to the Olympic trials where I qualified in two events.
00:23:44.770 --> 00:23:49.441
it's cool to be able to build into that community and That's the community I want to give back to.
00:23:49.570 --> 00:23:52.800
those are the people that see the worth of what we're doing here.
00:23:52.820 --> 00:23:56.510
I think there's room for me to use my creative skills in that sense as well.
00:23:56.691 --> 00:24:07.760
So it's like, nothing exists in a vacuum, you know, the things that I learned in my master's program are going to challenge my deeply held beliefs on the ways that I think communication exists in the world and the concepts that are attached to it.
00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:13.770
And those are the kinds of things that could potentially influence the way that I view running as well, even if it's a very minor shift.
00:24:14.580 --> 00:24:25.141
do you feel that, having, the artistic pursuits in a small business as well as running keeps you from achieving more in one or the other?
00:24:26.980 --> 00:24:27.510
I don't think so.
00:24:27.570 --> 00:24:36.010
I view, there's, the concept of rugged flexibility, and part of that is related to your identity.
00:24:36.310 --> 00:24:38.885
And I think I've had some experiences in my past.
00:24:38.925 --> 00:24:42.865
there was a point in time when I was all in on running and nothing else mattered to me in my life.
00:24:42.905 --> 00:24:49.486
This was when I was in high school and I got a stress fracture and I broke my knee.
00:24:49.516 --> 00:24:53.185
my femur literally couldn't handle the stress I was putting it under from the weight of training.
00:24:53.546 --> 00:25:02.236
And that was probably one of the darkest times in my life because I had defined myself only by this one thing.
00:25:02.516 --> 00:25:04.796
And then all of a sudden it was taken away from me.
00:25:05.195 --> 00:25:06.806
into that void, I just went screaming.
00:25:08.026 --> 00:25:08.645
it was terrible.
00:25:09.135 --> 00:25:13.425
and it was one of those things where it's like, okay, well, if I'm not that guy, then who am I?
00:25:13.776 --> 00:25:16.776
And I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what I enjoy?
00:25:16.796 --> 00:25:17.695
what matters to me?
00:25:17.736 --> 00:25:21.355
that was when I started leaning more heavily into the artistic side of things.
00:25:21.586 --> 00:25:43.846
it helps provide, not just balance but harmony at some points running is going to be the highest thing in my life and the artistic stuff and you know all my other pursuits are going to kind of take a bit of a back seat but they're still there when I turn to them they can take center stage and running can dip back down a bit I'm not as interested in balance as I once was but I'm interested in harmony.
00:25:45.010 --> 00:25:45.790
Oh, well put.
00:25:46.191 --> 00:25:47.730
I salute you for that.
00:25:47.730 --> 00:25:59.141
I know especially people who were running is, is their only thing, you know, when they get injured and injuries are a part of running, it can cause some really big depression.
00:25:59.191 --> 00:26:05.941
I salute you for using that as an opportunity to grow in other areas I love how you put that, seeking harmony.
00:26:06.715 --> 00:26:07.695
that's a great way to put it.
00:26:08.895 --> 00:26:15.530
I ask because I started off the show by saying I've met many professional runners and it gets to a point where life is all about running.
00:26:15.730 --> 00:26:20.776
I've known folks who quit great corporate jobs, or career paths just to pursue running.
00:26:20.826 --> 00:26:36.965
they were good enough to make it worthwhile, they were just on the cusp of Olympic qualifying by quitting and making it their full time job they did, but they would basically wake up, run, nap, run, nap, sleep some more, and that's about it, it became not the funnest people to hang around with.
00:26:38.046 --> 00:26:38.556
Yeah.
00:26:38.766 --> 00:26:44.855
I think part of how I view the running journey is I want to be the absolute best that I can be, but I want to do it my way.
00:26:45.096 --> 00:26:48.155
I have a clear idea of what that looks like.
00:26:48.205 --> 00:26:57.955
sometimes I, have my days, especially long run days where I go for a two hour run in the morning and then I'm just like, Nope, I'm not doing anything else today.
00:26:58.465 --> 00:27:20.536
that's one of those times where, in service of harmony, running takes The center stage, but there are other times like most days for me where I spend a good portion of my time doing creative work or, engaged in other activities outside of running I think that helps you have a broader sense of your identity and the complexity of who you are is not just pigeonholed into one thing.
00:27:21.236 --> 00:27:21.915
Yeah, I love that.
00:27:22.655 --> 00:27:25.395
I want to back up to the good life talk again.
00:27:25.796 --> 00:27:26.935
They made a couple notes there.
00:27:27.675 --> 00:27:33.185
You said you were trying to understand a little bit more about trust and conviction With yourself.
00:27:33.365 --> 00:27:34.125
Can you elaborate on that?
00:27:35.445 --> 00:27:36.145
Yeah, for sure.
00:27:36.195 --> 00:27:44.556
I think that The way this has shown up for me historically is like, I get to competitions and it's like, you have to believe in yourself.
00:27:44.715 --> 00:27:44.955
Right.
00:27:44.955 --> 00:27:52.195
And I believe in my training and I trust my systems, but it's like in the moments that, you know, this is where running will pull away the mask for you.
00:27:52.195 --> 00:27:56.705
Because it's like, I can hold that mask to myself and I can say, yes, I believe fully in my ability to do it.
00:27:56.955 --> 00:28:01.276
But then when it comes that critical moment in the race, where it's like, This is it.
00:28:01.286 --> 00:28:04.816
You either get on that move or you're falling off the back and you are not winning this thing.
00:28:06.026 --> 00:28:11.405
My past handful of races have been like, I'm falling off the back and I'm like, what's going on here?
00:28:11.455 --> 00:28:16.885
So it's like, I'm trying to work on these experiences to like, what, okay, what do you need, dude?
00:28:16.915 --> 00:28:18.560
like having these conversations with myself.
00:28:18.661 --> 00:28:31.480
What is it that's going to make you feel like you got this whenever you show up at the line and being able to build that into where I'm able to show myself like, Hey man, you said that you wanted to have this many great workouts Here's your training log.
00:28:31.711 --> 00:28:32.270
You have done it.
00:28:32.471 --> 00:28:33.520
Go the line, believe it.
00:28:33.560 --> 00:28:33.921
Right.
00:28:33.990 --> 00:28:34.911
So it's that kind of thing.
00:28:35.161 --> 00:28:40.701
But on the other side, I have had experiences where I've fully trusted myself and these are some of my best performances.
00:28:41.101 --> 00:28:42.800
this past outdoor track season.
00:28:43.336 --> 00:28:44.865
My first race was a 5k.
00:28:45.556 --> 00:28:48.036
I don't run a ton of 5ks as a steeplechaser.
00:28:48.066 --> 00:28:54.766
I mainly focus on the steeplechase because it's one of those events that kind of takes a little bit in order to get good at it.
00:28:54.766 --> 00:28:55.806
This is my first one of the year.
00:28:55.826 --> 00:28:57.816
that helps to remember what this whole thing is.
00:28:58.165 --> 00:29:03.506
so going into this 5k, I took a little bit of the pressure off myself I know I'm fit, I'm just going to go and see what's there.
00:29:03.935 --> 00:29:05.336
I literally had this moment.
00:29:06.040 --> 00:29:09.441
When I was around 3k into a 5k, that's where things start getting really hard.
00:29:09.750 --> 00:29:18.701
I had, the version of me that was experiencing what it was to be at 3k and being like, Oh, I don't know, man.
00:29:18.750 --> 00:29:28.471
And then I had, a separate thought that was the version of me that was going to be dealing with the last K of the race, and that guy was like, just keep me in it, man.
00:29:28.830 --> 00:29:29.800
Trust that I can do this.
00:29:30.211 --> 00:29:36.490
I had this moment of feeling like those two versions of me saw eye to eye and they were like, okay.
00:29:36.941 --> 00:29:40.101
so I pushed really hard over the course of that next K.
00:29:40.181 --> 00:29:46.431
I ended up leading the race or leading my pack from pretty much that point to, 600 meters to go.
00:29:46.560 --> 00:29:50.921
even then I was still able to close really hard, it was that moment of like, dude, you got to trust me.
00:29:51.191 --> 00:29:55.740
And that, that, that version of me that was like asking for trust believed he could handle it.
00:29:56.260 --> 00:30:00.486
the version of me that was, needing to give the trust was like, okay, we can do this.
00:30:01.826 --> 00:30:05.746
Oh, man, I love, these internal conversations.
00:30:05.746 --> 00:30:06.855
I totally get it.
00:30:06.895 --> 00:30:13.726
even though, I haven't run at your level, I think any of us who really train hard for a race, to get the best out of ourselves.
00:30:13.726 --> 00:30:17.425
For me, it's a marathon I'm in pursuit of a sub three hour marathon.
00:30:17.455 --> 00:30:20.996
I'm at 303, 52 is what I just got.
00:30:21.145 --> 00:30:24.246
In tokyo, right I had the same dialogue i'm ready for it, right?
00:30:24.276 --> 00:31:02.346
I trained really hard better than and I really trained and I was I know where it's gonna come that moment, and I'm like, okay, I know I did the work this time, I'm going to give it my all, I know my mind wants to give up before my body does, and when it comes down, we're going to beat, the mind down, and push through, ironically, it never happened, these races are so special when you get there, you're there at the end, like you said, even at 600 meters, you still had it, and you can still, you know, Kick and it's such a great feeling and even though you've given it your all you probably end more pumped than You started I think what you're pointing to is that it's about running a race that you're proud of and living the effort that you're proud of.
00:31:02.385 --> 00:31:04.625
And that kind of encapsulates the good life for me.
00:31:04.625 --> 00:31:06.105
I want to live a life that I'm proud of.
00:31:08.971 --> 00:31:10.451
it can work the other way too, right?
00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:17.070
you have those races where you give up, that pain comes, your mind wants to quit, and you're like, yeah, I get it.
00:31:17.090 --> 00:31:17.871
Today's not the day.
00:31:17.871 --> 00:31:27.570
No matter what, no matter, you might justify it to yourself, no matter however you want it, however you want, you still, at the end, there's that, little devil on the side that's just like, I don't feel good about myself, right?
00:31:27.810 --> 00:31:28.101
Right.
00:31:28.611 --> 00:31:30.820
that's where purpose becomes important, right?
00:31:30.871 --> 00:31:36.340
if you're identified with the self that's experiencing the pain, then you're never going to look past it.
00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:38.931
You're never going to be able to sit down because the pain is all encompassing.
00:31:39.221 --> 00:31:48.300
But if you have a purpose that's larger than you, if you're on a college team, it's, like, Hey, my team needs me right now then what is my pain in the face of what this means.
00:31:48.586 --> 00:32:06.996
For our team and all of the work that we've all collectively put in, like whatever narrative you're going to tell yourself, it's like, that's what you're, if you're able to lean on a purpose that's strong enough, then, you know, it makes any, any suffering or discontentment you feel in the moment seem insignificant by comparison.
00:32:08.151 --> 00:32:08.590
Yeah.
00:32:08.691 --> 00:32:09.151
Oh, God.
00:32:09.151 --> 00:32:09.671
I love that.
00:32:10.171 --> 00:32:12.480
So what about, how you apply this.
00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:16.560
It's easy to use that with racing, Or running goals.
00:32:17.300 --> 00:32:22.661
and when you give it your all, even if you don't hit your goal, but you know you overcame that, you still feel good, right?
00:32:22.661 --> 00:32:28.461
You knew it's when you give in, but the pursuit of it, if you truly know you did it, is okay, right?
00:32:29.901 --> 00:32:35.570
and then I'm also wondering What you think about applying that in other areas?
00:32:35.580 --> 00:32:36.411
Like, how do you do that?
00:32:36.421 --> 00:32:39.490
Do you ask yourself a question like, hey, I want to be a gazillionaire.
00:32:39.681 --> 00:32:41.351
Well, do I really want to be a gazillionaire?
00:32:41.351 --> 00:32:44.590
It takes doing this, this, this, and that, and I'm not doing this, this, this, and that.
00:32:44.601 --> 00:32:44.911
Right?
00:32:44.961 --> 00:32:49.131
and that's the constant question and battle that we're having in a race or in our training.
00:32:49.881 --> 00:32:52.681
this is where the analogy really applies.
00:32:52.730 --> 00:32:53.060
Right.
00:32:53.131 --> 00:32:54.181
This is where the rubber meets the road.
00:32:54.550 --> 00:33:04.921
Yeah, I think, so much of this is based around having actual clarity in what you want, you know, like in running, we have the saying of like, it has to pass the gut check, right?
00:33:04.921 --> 00:33:07.111
Like, I could tell you right now, don't worry about it.
00:33:07.121 --> 00:33:10.980
You're going to get into Chicago and you're going to run 215.
00:33:11.300 --> 00:33:11.530
Right.
00:33:11.530 --> 00:33:14.601
And it's like, Oh, I don't know about that.
00:33:14.651 --> 00:33:18.800
you'll have that experience of Oh, that doesn't really pass my gut check because it doesn't feel real.
00:33:18.820 --> 00:33:23.040
It doesn't feel supported by the things that I've done in the past and it doesn't feel true to me.
00:33:23.320 --> 00:33:23.560
Right.
00:33:23.560 --> 00:33:29.530
And so I kind of use the same type of metric whenever I'm thinking about my goals, and there's tons of resources here.
00:33:29.580 --> 00:33:36.461
I was reading Designing Your Life, which is a really interesting book that kind of prompts these kinds of questions of like, okay, well, what are you trying to do here?
00:33:36.721 --> 00:33:44.240
And that's something that journaling has been really helpful for because I'm able to have this conversation with myself to be like, oh, gazillionaire, is that it for you?
00:33:44.300 --> 00:33:46.215
And it's like, No, not really.
00:33:46.215 --> 00:33:56.395
I just want enough financial stability to be able to live the life that I want, maybe buy a house someday, be able to support my family if it grows in ways that incorporate children, I want to be able to support that.
00:33:56.445 --> 00:34:00.726
provide for them and provide for myself and all the versions of me that never had the things that I want.
00:34:01.056 --> 00:34:01.226
Right.
00:34:01.405 --> 00:34:08.885
So it's like, I use this concept of past and future selves quite often, because I think it's a really helpful metric to Put myself in their shoes.
00:34:09.135 --> 00:34:16.675
It's like, yeah, the version of me that, grew up in a similar way that you did, he's going to be stoked to be in Boulder and living in the house that I do now.
00:34:16.896 --> 00:34:23.235
But yeah, the version of me that's going to come, you know, five years down the road is going to be like, Hey man, maybe we could have a house that would be great.
00:34:23.266 --> 00:34:25.885
So it's like, what can I do to help future me?
00:34:26.056 --> 00:34:28.175
and set him up well because he deserves it.
00:34:28.536 --> 00:34:37.766
So it's about cultivating this relationship with yourself to know yourself well enough and to love yourself enough to be able to act in alignment with who you actually are and what you actually care about.
00:34:37.925 --> 00:34:40.775
first for me, it's about clarity in that.
00:34:41.045 --> 00:34:46.905
And then it's about trying to, feel into what that experience is like, I guide myself a lot by.
00:34:47.626 --> 00:34:54.175
How things feel like, if I'm noticing a lot of frustration right now, what's the source of that?
00:34:54.215 --> 00:35:00.246
how do I live my life more in alignment with peace tranquility feeling alive and feeling inspired?
00:35:00.246 --> 00:35:05.346
Because I think that, you know, feeling alive and feeling inspired, that's fuel and you can use that fuel.
00:35:05.655 --> 00:35:17.335
in pursuit of the good life continuing to set yourself up in situations where you're going to experience more inspiration and feel more alive it's not necessarily a hedonistic, I'm only looking for the positive things.
00:35:17.335 --> 00:35:20.976
I recognize that those classically negative emotions have their place.
00:35:21.226 --> 00:35:28.485
And I think that they are signposts that tell you something, like if you act unwholesomely, and then you feel guilty.
00:35:28.496 --> 00:35:40.440
It's like, okay, well that guilt is telling you you care about that relationship, and maybe you should think about ways to, act more in alignment with who you are and those higher virtues and those pro social values So well said.
00:35:41.231 --> 00:35:43.431
Brian, we could keep going on this stuff forever.
00:35:43.431 --> 00:35:48.181
This is what I love to talk about the most, but for the sake of our listeners, and I know you've got things to do.
00:35:48.190 --> 00:35:52.820
So we'll, get into our famous Wayfinder 4, our world famous Wayfinder 4 here.
00:35:52.831 --> 00:35:53.311
You ready?
00:35:55.346 --> 00:35:55.846
All right, great.
00:35:55.876 --> 00:35:58.266
So give us a hack that you use every day.
00:35:59.695 --> 00:36:00.405
I think journaling.
00:36:00.585 --> 00:36:01.315
It's gotta be it.
00:36:01.706 --> 00:36:03.146
Yeah, that's a great one.
00:36:03.985 --> 00:36:05.385
How about a favorite?
00:36:06.175 --> 00:36:08.315
Could be, you know, book.
00:36:09.001 --> 00:36:14.231
one book that has been incredibly impactful to me and I keep coming back to is how to do the work by Dr.
00:36:14.231 --> 00:36:14.860
Nicole LaPera.
00:36:15.411 --> 00:36:16.440
super fascinating.
00:36:16.490 --> 00:36:21.740
it helps you understand your relationship to past versions of you and uproot the patterns that are holding you back.
00:36:23.090 --> 00:36:26.061
Wow, that's, never heard that one before, I'm going to have to check that out.
00:36:26.871 --> 00:36:29.331
how about a piece of advice for your younger self?
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:38.420
change is possible and it's something to be embraced.
00:36:41.510 --> 00:36:42.001
Love that.
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:44.871
How about a big opportunity?
00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:46.001
Chasing.
00:36:46.460 --> 00:36:47.670
Or you see out there right now.
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:51.960
Oh yeah, definitely the biggest opportunity on the horizon for me.
00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:58.041
I'm kind of split actually, because the big opportunity is being able to promote my second book and build community around it.
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:05.601
the bigger opportunity I feel is going back to school and getting a second master's in strategic communication design.
00:37:06.690 --> 00:37:07.081
Excellent.
00:37:09.240 --> 00:37:12.050
Brian, if people want to know more about you, how can they find you?
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:17.210
Yeah, I'm on Instagram as, be razzle dazzle 5k.
00:37:17.210 --> 00:37:22.880
And, the team that I run for roots running is also on, Instagram as the roots running project.
00:37:23.541 --> 00:37:25.760
I have a website, incandecoscreative.
00:37:26.110 --> 00:37:26.471
com.
00:37:27.260 --> 00:37:30.221
I'm super available if people want to reach out, always happy to.
00:37:30.621 --> 00:37:33.141
chat in the comments or, any sort of DMS.
00:37:34.451 --> 00:37:34.851
Excellent.
00:37:34.990 --> 00:37:35.411
Thank you.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.690
can you mention a little bit more about, the root running group?
00:37:38.701 --> 00:37:44.760
they've kind of become a staple and an iconic elite running group in Boulder There is a lot of running elite running groups, right?
00:37:44.760 --> 00:38:01.570
I mean, it's kind of a mecca of professional runner And i've seen over the years there I've now been in colorado almost 15 years nine of them in the boulder area and I got to know a lot of those groups and a lot of them come and Go but roots is when they started out They've been around for quite a bit now and have a legendary following now.
00:38:01.570 --> 00:38:02.981
So can you talk a little about them?
00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:04.510
Yeah, definitely.
00:38:04.871 --> 00:38:07.581
Roots is a blue collar team.
00:38:07.630 --> 00:38:14.771
everybody on the team has other things they're balancing with their running careers and trying to pursue running at the highest level they possibly can.
00:38:15.130 --> 00:38:20.331
we've got people that run distances from the mile to the marathon.
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:25.900
And at all different types of levels, a lot of us are around the U.
00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:26.041
S.
00:38:26.041 --> 00:38:27.820
championship caliber athletes.
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:31.150
some of us are pushing to try and get more towards that Olympic caliber athlete.
00:38:31.510 --> 00:38:35.840
but, you know, we're all super, yeah, it's, it's a great community.
00:38:35.891 --> 00:38:36.880
We've got a great culture.
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:43.251
Everybody's very supportive and interested in, like, genuinely interested in other people's lives trying to help each other along the way.
00:38:43.251 --> 00:38:49.530
Thanks I've known a few of your athletes over the years and I, I think you have an amazing team I wish I could keep up with you guys.
00:38:49.530 --> 00:38:55.121
You need to start a master's group for semi elite, I'll talk to Richie about it.
00:38:55.271 --> 00:38:55.791
that'd be great.
00:38:57.101 --> 00:38:59.550
Well, Brian, thank you so much for being on the show today.
00:38:59.550 --> 00:39:01.170
This has been a great conversation.
00:39:01.471 --> 00:39:07.541
anytime I get a chance to talk to a fellow runner and how to relate our running lessons to life, I'm a happy guy.
00:39:07.541 --> 00:39:12.721
I really am grateful for you being here and, I hope our listeners enjoyed having you here as well.
00:39:13.581 --> 00:39:14.101
Yeah, definitely.
00:39:14.101 --> 00:39:14.871
Thank you for having me.
00:39:14.871 --> 00:39:22.050
it's always great to be able to use my life experience as something that could potentially be useful to someone in a moment when they need it.
00:39:22.786 --> 00:39:23.905
Yeah, absolutely.
00:39:24.025 --> 00:39:28.565
Well, hopefully we'll have you back on, after your book comes out and, as you keep developing.
00:39:29.456 --> 00:39:29.735
Yeah.
00:39:30.126 --> 00:39:30.385
Thanks.
00:39:30.436 --> 00:39:30.766
Take care.
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