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Guide to Managing Negative Emotions with Dr Michelle Maiden…
Send us a text In this episode of The Wayfinder Show, host Luis Hernandez interviews Dr. Michelle Maidenberg, a distinguished psychologist,…
Nov. 22, 2024
Guide to Managing Negative Emotions with Dr Michelle Maidenberg
In this episode of The Wayfinder Show, host Luis Hernandez interviews Dr. Michelle Maidenberg, a distinguished psychologist, author, and mental health advocate. They discuss the importance of building confidence to make lasting changes, the significance of embracing negative emotions, and the ACE method (Acceptance, Compassion, and Empowerment) for overcoming life's challenges. Dr. Maidenberg, known for her impactful TED Talks, shares her insights on mindfulness, self-compassion, and the neurological basis of our emotional responses. The conversation delves into practical strategies for dealing with grief, anxiety, and the importance of staying present to achieve personal growth.
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Transcript
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People will make changes when they feel high confidence, not when they feel low confidence.
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So it's building up confidence throughout the entire process.
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And that's what this helps with.
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So any stuckness that gets in the way, I don't care what it is.
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If you have these set of tools, you will be able to get through it.
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Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.
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Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
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Come join us and find the way to your dream life.
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Welcome back to the wayfinder show.
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I'm your host louis hernandez and today i'm here with dr.
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Michelle made in berg She's a distinguished psychologist author and advocate for mental health.
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Dr Made in berg is the co founder and clinical director of through my eyes a non profit providing video legacies for those with chronic illnesses.
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She teaches mindfulness at NYU, serves on multiple boards, including the Boys and Girls Club of Mount Vernon and the Westchester Trauma Network.
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And she's also a member of the American Red Cross Crisis Team.
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She's an accomplished author with books like Free Your Child from Overeating and Ace Your Life.
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Michelle also shares her insights through the TED Talks, which I've watched over the years.
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Psychology Today and her YouTube channel.
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Her work is a testament to her dedication to health and mental health advocacy.
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Dr.
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Meidenberg, welcome to The Wayfinder Show.
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Thank you for having me and thank you for that wonderful introduction.
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Yeah, thank you.
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You're so accomplished.
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It was really hard to cut it down to that.
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I'm going to start with what your own question that you started on your TED talk with and how does one sit with negative emotions?
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That is the mystery of the world because it is so antithetical to who we are as human beings.
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Our brain is wired to protect us from danger and discomfort 24 7 and we have reptilian brains.
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So even again, we're talking about perceived danger, right?
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How many times do you get fearful of things?
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And it doesn't necessarily warrant you to get as fearful as you get.
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So our brain is constantly hyper vigilant and it's constantly protecting us.
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So when it experiences negative emotions, which is very typical and average and normal for people.
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And when we're talking about negative emotions, we're talking about emotions such as sadness, disappointment, frustration, anger, you know, right, there's a whole gamut.
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So if we were able to, we would opt for more positive emotions, joyfulness, gleefulness, happiness, right?
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They feel much better in our nervous system.
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And our bodies, but the wonderful thing about having negative emotions is it teaches us really what triggers us and it helps us to understand what's important, right?
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I always say that there's pain and values and values and pain.
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So if we're grounded in our values.
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If we feel pain, it gives us information.
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That's something right.
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It is again that we're leaning up against a value and we're going to have inevitable pain.
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We know that a value is being rubbed up against, so we need to know that.
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That helps us in our relationships.
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It helps us in our self growth in so many different ways.
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So that if you perceive negative emotions differently, not like again, you know, you know, antithetical to being a human being, right?
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Because if you look on the Internet and you go out there, what does it say?
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It says avoid negative emotions.
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be happy.
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Don't be sad.
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And if you are sad, do whatever you can to be happy.
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So we're constantly and chronically, up against ourselves.
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And it's, so prohibitive for us.
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Yeah.
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Can you describe about those prohibitions?
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Like, how does it show up, for us in the way we think, the way we make decisions, the way we act?
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it shows up all the time.
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in our behaviors, for example, I was just talking to somebody the other day, whether it's, relative to health and wellness, people struggle with weight.
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People struggle with overeating and, you know, somebody will tell, I was just with this young girl, she was in her twenties the other day.
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And she was so distressed because, and again, visually she looks, she's beautiful.
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She's beautiful.
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She's actually average weight.
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but the thing that bothers her that she struggles with is she gets very obsessive over food and then she kind of binges at times.
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Although she looks and appears perfectly normal and she's beautiful and that's not really the issue.
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It's more about her being disturbed about being out of control and she's so hyper functioning in every other way.
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She's actually in college at an Ivy league, you know, so she, you know, she's very successful, but in this way, it's so disturbing to her because she just can't, you know, get it right.
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And yeah, and so what ends up happening and that we talk about this, you know, she, she, again, she was telling me about a binge that happened the other day.
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she went from being at home to going to her boyfriend and on and on and then how she was like kind of snacking all the way through.
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She was kind of overdoing it.
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I said to her, were you having any thoughts or feelings as you were going along your way and snacking?
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And she's like, no, I just, automatically put the food in my mouth.
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And I said to her, okay, let's slow you down a little bit.
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People argue with me all the time.
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No, I wasn't thinking anything.
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It was just kind of like automatically in my mouth.
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And there wasn't even a thought in my mind.
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And when I slow them down, inevitably they'll tell me.
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Oh, actually, I did have a thought.
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I had a thought of like, Oh, do I really need this right now?
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Or do I need to have so many?
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Or Oh, tomorrow?
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It's okay, if I do this, because tomorrow I'll work out, you know, again, all of these self defeating thoughts, all these rationalizations that we ignore, because we ignore the negative emotions, and we give into them in order to get better.
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Again, to get pleasure, right?
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That dope, but we have that dopamine fix in the moment that really kind of encapsulates us.
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And then we just give into the behavior.
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If we were to sit with the discomfort, like I want this, I'm having an urge right now.
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This is going on for me and it really upsets me that I have, that it's hard for me to control this.
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And I feel really sad that my mind takes over and then I give into these behaviors and it makes me feel weak.
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It makes me feel insecure, right?
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But we don't take the time.
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And then, then you can make a mindful decision.
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Then you could say, how do I want to behave?
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Given the fact that I think and feel this way in this moment.
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But we don't give ourselves the opportunity.
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We don't.
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Yeah, that, that's interesting because I feel like, you have to recognize that you're doing that first, right?
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Like an example you're giving with overeating, we almost have to recognize that we're overeating, and that is showing up as a way of.
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as a symptom of our negative emotion.
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Right.
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So we have to recognize that first before we could even consciously decide to sit with it.
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Because we all have things that we do to hide those emotions, right?
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And we're thinking, okay, not thinking anything.
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we might not be conscious of it.
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here lies the problem.
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we repress.
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because of avoiding the negative emotion.
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That's part of the problem for a lot of people.
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In other words, people aren't even connected to their emotions because they're so used to denying, distracting from, avoiding.
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That's what we do because it feels so uncomfortable and it becomes this vicious cycle.
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those behaviors, really play themselves out, not only with food, substances, relationship, anger, frustration.
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I mean, I could go on and on.
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And there are so many people, by the way, who hyperfunction in some ways.
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like this woman, this girl, she's in an Ivy league academically.
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She's stellar, but in this way she feels like a complete and utter, she's completely and utterly insecure and feels like a complete failure.
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So we're also, we're multidimensional.
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We could be, and I see people like this all the time, right?
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They function so well at work, but then at home, not so well, or their relationships suffer, or.
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they have wonderful relationships, but they can't function in other ways.
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So it's kind of understand all of our parts, understanding that there's value in all emotions across the spectrum.
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And also not believing everything you think and feel that is really critical.
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I have a sign on my door, actually, that says that don't believe everything you think and feel because our mind is wired in that way.
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It leads us sometimes to have thoughts and feelings that are actually inaccurate.
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There's so many barriers that go into our thinking and our feeling, and it could do with how we're raised in our families, socioculturally.
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think about how much we're exposed to in the internet today.
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And even what's going on in the world for that matter, I mean, that's a good example too, Our beliefs are, and I see this, people's beliefs shift so quickly because of hearing something or experiencing something.
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That's how we're kind of fickle in some ways, but our brains are fickle.
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Well, that's the whole point, but the other thing to understand too, which is so critical.
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And I teach that in my book, because we need to know how our brain is structured.
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We need to know about our neurocognition and having an education about that gives people so much relief.
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When I teach people about their brains, they're like, Oh, that's why that happens.
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Oh my goodness.
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And when it happens, they're more connected to it and more conscious of it, like you were saying, and then they could behave differently.
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And not do that rote thing, and that rote pattern of behavior that they've always been doing.
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So, when I talk about this rote behavior, we're talking about neural pathways that get formed.
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That gets formed in our childhood.
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Now, if you think about it, okay?
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If you have a football field, and I make a path on that football field, and people cross, okay?
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And I say to them, okay, cross the field.
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Where do you think they're going to go?
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They're going to go right for the path.
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They're not going to go on the grass, the sides of the path.
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Why?
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Because that's what our brains do.
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It follows the path that's familiar.
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That's great.
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That feels comfortable.
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Instead of, again, we take the path of least resistance.
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Our brain doesn't want to work hard.
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So it follows patterns of behavior that it's used to and that's familiar and comfortable.
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you talked about the past.
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how do our past create, a lot of negative emotions that we've negative experiences that we draw from the past and almost like, I think even more so than the positive ones, right?
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Like they affect more of our, I know I am impacted by my past negative experiences probably more so than I dwell on trying to avoid that again, the positive ones and trying to relive the positive ones, right?
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How can we, learn to let those go so we can yeah, you're talking again about our brains are wired Now if you think about it your brain only holds on to memories, that are painful and distressing.
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It doesn't hold on to positive memories.
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It doesn't need to, because it doesn't have to warn us or it's, there isn't any inherent threat.
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So it doesn't hold on to it.
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That's why, like, if you're on an event, let's say your wedding, I don't know.
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I'm just making this up, right?
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Like people say, you know, take every moment in because it's so fleeting and it's so true, right?
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Like five hours goes by like this and before you know it's over and you have literally no memory of it.
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Now I have four children.
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Okay.
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And people say, Oh, the day you give birth is the happiest day of your life and whatever.
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If you ask me what time was it?
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They gave birth.
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What day?
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Whatever.
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I mean, I know their birthdays obviously, but I'm saying what time of day, what time of day.
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I can't differentiate between my four kids, I'll be honest with you.
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could I really, if you said to me, what did it feel like in that moment?
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I could imagine what it felt like.
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I could like imagine what happiness and joy feels like in that moment, but I can't feel it viscerally on a gut level.
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I just can't as much as I try to.
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If I ask you, think about a time that was the most distressing for you.
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And the most painful and close your eyes and try to really tap into that pain.
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You'll have a memory of it.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Why?
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Again, it's the hypervigilance.
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Your brain is protecting you from any future pain, from any future grief, from any future whatever.
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So it has to remember it.
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And then the problem with that, if you think about it is in the future, When you have thoughts or feelings that mimic that pain, it makes this natural association, right?
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It's synapses that make this natural association.
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And then we think that we're in the same type of event.
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So we behave in the same way, but guess what?
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Those events don't necessarily call for that behavior because now we're adults, we don't have to, right?
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it doesn't make sense if you think about it, it makes absolutely no sense, but that is the way our brain is wired.
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But how do we get past that?
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is there a technique to say, all right, thank you for the, offering to protect me from this past negative experience, but, I'm going to be okay now I'm going to go and jump.
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Right.
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that's my life's work.
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Good.
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So, we need to get your whole life's work out of you in the next half hour.
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Yes.
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Please.
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So that's the method that I developed.
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It's called ACE, which is ACE your life.
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And it's predicated on Acceptance, compassion, and empowerment.
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Those are the barriers that don't let us get through our stuckness that I've come up with.
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And when I talk about acceptance, we're not talking about accepting mediocrity.
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We're not talking about just relenting.
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We're talking about noticing things.
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And I teach barriers and I teach skills on how to accomplish that.
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You know, compassion.
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We learn how to be compassionate towards others.
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We never learn how to be self-compassionate.
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We don't learn in school.
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We hardly ever learn it from our parents because they don't know how to do it either.
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You know?
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And again, there's a lot of barriers in place that don't allow us to do that.
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Now I ha when I'm with my patients, I have them do these skills.
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And I have to tell you, it is so difficult and challenging for people to be self compassionate.
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It's so uncomfortable in our bodies, you know, and when I teach my class, I'll do a lot of exercises that challenge that.
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And I have to tell you, you know what I get on my evaluations, you know, they're like, that was really hard.
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And, you know, I didn't want to do that.
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And it made me feel uncomfortable but again, we have to be able to do that even in our intimate relationships.
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Okay.
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why do intimate relationships fail is because we're not willing to be vulnerable in our intimate relationships at times.
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And what does that even look like from person to person that varies.
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And then empowerment.
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The problem isn't with behavior change.
00:16:38.349 --> 00:16:39.509
We actually know how to do that.
00:16:40.609 --> 00:16:42.759
There's so many resources out there.
00:16:42.798 --> 00:16:48.938
I mean, that was just in the past three years, there's been like five, like bestselling books on habits, habit changes.
00:16:49.168 --> 00:16:50.028
And by the way, I read them.
00:16:50.038 --> 00:16:51.438
They're all fantastic.
00:16:51.438 --> 00:16:52.089
They're incredible.
00:16:52.418 --> 00:16:56.298
What I find is people know how to change habits.
00:16:56.328 --> 00:16:58.178
They don't know how to maintain them.
00:16:58.749 --> 00:17:03.168
That's the problem over time, And that's the issue.
00:17:03.168 --> 00:17:04.798
So I talk about empowerment.
00:17:04.808 --> 00:17:09.828
People will make changes when they feel high confidence, not when they feel low confidence.
00:17:10.729 --> 00:17:13.848
So it's building up confidence throughout the entire process.
00:17:13.929 --> 00:17:15.409
And that's what this helps with.
00:17:15.778 --> 00:17:18.969
So any stuckness that gets in the way, I don't care what it is.
00:17:19.558 --> 00:17:22.659
If you have these set of tools, you will be able to get through it.
00:17:24.699 --> 00:17:26.598
and I have examples that I've worked on.
00:17:27.368 --> 00:17:28.189
Give us an example.
00:17:29.618 --> 00:17:48.578
I have literally like these transformation miracles that I've seen with, Some of my patients that literally have tears running down my eyes when I think about where they were and where they are, when we have that conversation and they themselves say to me, like, Oh my gosh, like they forget because they feel so much better.
00:17:49.138 --> 00:17:57.669
And then I say, do you know when I first started seeing you and they get so emotional because they're like, Oh my gosh, I forgot.
00:17:57.709 --> 00:17:59.378
I never would have actually done that.
00:17:59.618 --> 00:18:05.959
When I first started with you, I'm amazed that they forget, they forget where they were at, which is amazing.
00:18:06.568 --> 00:18:09.929
So, it's part of our human experience to experience stuckness.
00:18:09.959 --> 00:18:11.618
There's no one who's unscathed.
00:18:12.239 --> 00:18:24.509
I feel like in today's society, we have a much greater awareness around some of these emotional issues and we diagnose them as mental health issues, right?
00:18:24.538 --> 00:18:32.999
So, I'm thinking specifically depression, anxiety, you know, to the point where I believe you correct me if I'm wrong.
00:18:33.219 --> 00:18:36.989
I don't know, but they're actually diagnosable as having mental health.
00:18:37.699 --> 00:18:41.838
Issues right and you can be prescribed, pills for that kind of stuff right?
00:18:42.259 --> 00:18:44.259
So do you think that?
00:18:45.058 --> 00:18:53.979
we have some of that in my own household, And I think it keeps us stuck from, in fear and we're making decisions We actually just had a big family meeting around this the other day.
00:18:54.348 --> 00:19:00.878
we have a daughter that's approaching college age and that's a big trigger time period for people with that.
00:19:00.878 --> 00:19:01.159
Right?
00:19:01.388 --> 00:19:02.108
So, yeah.
00:19:02.628 --> 00:19:25.239
So, I'm wondering, you know, there's all of these influences, that are coming, her friends are saying, you know, like, they all have the same issues, and, you know, some of them see therapists and get diagnosed certain pills and what have you, and others don't, but, you know, at the end of the day, I, I feel like it is an avoidance of, of trying to get, you know, take on those negative emotions.
00:19:25.239 --> 00:19:31.818
It gets stuck in so much of what could go wrong, leads to anxiety and not making a decision, right?
00:19:32.354 --> 00:19:33.394
it's a mind body thing.
00:19:33.403 --> 00:19:39.614
So yeah, you know, it's uncomfortable in our minds because right thought thinking is Challenging.
00:19:39.933 --> 00:19:44.443
it's comfortable feelings and even more so which is what you're talking about.
00:19:44.453 --> 00:20:01.338
It's uncomfortable somatically in our bodies Okay, that's what becomes a lot of the issue, you know people develop somatic symptoms to their anxiety depression, etc whether it's, a rapid heart rate, whether it's restlessness, whether it's headaches.
00:20:01.798 --> 00:20:02.169
Right.
00:20:02.969 --> 00:20:03.598
You know, backache.
00:20:03.888 --> 00:20:08.239
I mean, there's chronic health issues that come out of high levels of stress.
00:20:08.894 --> 00:20:21.284
Because our nervous system, if you think about it, it really wreaks havoc on our nervous system, we see that with chronic stress and chronic depression, it could lead to a lot of health related somatic symptoms.
00:20:21.534 --> 00:20:25.568
So when people feel so uncomfortable in their bodies, they want to get rid of it.
00:20:25.598 --> 00:20:28.509
It just, you know, and again, I could speak for myself.
00:20:28.898 --> 00:20:36.568
I know when I become, sad or anxious, actually I found, I'll tell you last night I was sitting and I'm, going through some personal.
00:20:37.338 --> 00:20:39.318
It's kind of relational stuff myself.
00:20:39.959 --> 00:20:49.588
And I noticed that lately, cause I do a lot of mindfulness and meditative practice, but I noticed lately that I've been, just cause there's so much going on in the world.
00:20:49.608 --> 00:20:54.679
I'm constantly like on Instagram and YouTube and finding out what's going on.
00:20:54.729 --> 00:21:05.538
And I listened to the news and whatever, and I said to myself, I don't really just give myself space to like think, you know, like I'm constantly, constantly inundated with news and, distracted.
00:21:06.239 --> 00:21:13.638
So I decided last night, I'm going to be in silence, like everything that I do, I'm actually not turning on anything.
00:21:14.439 --> 00:21:24.419
I burst out into tears, literally, because I didn't realize I was holding on to emotions and I was totally distracting from them.
00:21:24.419 --> 00:21:33.699
I literally sat down in a chair upstairs in my bedroom and I cried and I said, what is going on with me right now?
00:21:33.739 --> 00:21:40.398
And I just sat there and hurt myself and did everything that I, ask my patients to do.
00:21:40.429 --> 00:21:58.358
And I, kind of was thinking like, what's going through my mind and how am I feeling in this moment, and where is it affecting me and my body, and what is compelling my behavior right now, and what do I need for myself in this moment of suffering, and not to get rid of it.
00:21:59.499 --> 00:22:07.378
But more to be self compassionate towards myself so that I could live the life I want to be living and live a thriving life.
00:22:07.409 --> 00:22:08.679
And that was the question.
00:22:09.199 --> 00:22:14.009
And the first thing that came to my mind was, I want things to be the way they were.
00:22:14.038 --> 00:22:16.909
I felt this nostalgia towards like more like grief.
00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:21.118
And then I realized, no, like, that's not really what's going on.
00:22:21.118 --> 00:22:22.209
I'm just feeling pain.
00:22:22.209 --> 00:22:22.588
So it's.
00:22:22.913 --> 00:22:29.273
leading me to grasp towards the past, but that's not really what's going to help my future.
00:22:30.183 --> 00:22:33.453
and I gave myself that moment of grief, like it was okay.
00:22:33.453 --> 00:22:35.554
I said, yeah, this is really hard.
00:22:35.564 --> 00:22:37.413
This is a big transition.
00:22:37.923 --> 00:22:39.554
This is really hard.
00:22:40.304 --> 00:22:45.054
You know, this is really sad, you know, and I deserve to have this moment for myself.
00:22:45.983 --> 00:22:47.364
And That was not easy.
00:22:47.564 --> 00:22:48.354
Really hard.
00:22:49.864 --> 00:22:58.413
Do you know that I find that there's usually a different state that we're in When we're having this level of introspection, right?
00:22:58.423 --> 00:23:07.713
Like we're either looking into the past almost in a euphoric way looking back at it when truth is often time You know, we we well, whatever.
00:23:07.713 --> 00:23:10.153
We're either looking towards or looking towards the future, right?
00:23:10.203 --> 00:23:31.019
And we're not often, thinking about now, but I wonder if there's differences in how How do our bodies and ourselves react based on where we're looking to people who look in fear of the future react differently than people who are in euphoria of the past or vice versa or most definitely.
00:23:31.128 --> 00:23:31.558
Yeah.
00:23:31.628 --> 00:23:31.729
Okay.
00:23:32.009 --> 00:23:36.439
You know, there's this kind of saying that people who look in the past tend to be more depressed.
00:23:37.088 --> 00:23:39.229
Regret and guilt and shame.
00:23:39.719 --> 00:23:46.528
People who look towards the future tend to be more anxious because there's worry and then just worry anxiety.
00:23:47.038 --> 00:23:47.429
Which makes sense.
00:23:48.019 --> 00:23:56.328
If you think about it, that's why the only thing that we actually know is what's going on now in the present moment.
00:23:57.128 --> 00:24:00.568
I can't tell you what's going to happen in five minutes from now, literally.
00:24:00.838 --> 00:24:03.788
I can't tell you what's going to happen in five hours from now.
00:24:03.858 --> 00:24:04.689
I have no clue.
00:24:04.838 --> 00:24:07.818
All I know is right now, I am talking to you.
00:24:09.499 --> 00:24:10.128
I'm safe.
00:24:10.249 --> 00:24:10.999
I'm breathing.
00:24:11.058 --> 00:24:11.659
I'm here.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:12.519
That's all I know.
00:24:12.828 --> 00:24:13.229
That's right.
00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:13.548
Dr.
00:24:13.548 --> 00:24:14.679
Medenberg, I'm not going to hurt you.
00:24:15.358 --> 00:24:16.669
It's okay.
00:24:16.749 --> 00:24:17.608
You're perfectly safe here.
00:24:18.798 --> 00:24:19.479
I feel it.
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:20.179
I feel the love.
00:24:23.108 --> 00:24:30.259
But, that's why it's so difficult to be in the present moment because our mind is constantly fluctuating between the past and the future.
00:24:30.699 --> 00:24:34.798
It really is rarely in the present moment and it's so hard to be here.
00:24:34.909 --> 00:24:35.419
It is.
00:24:36.128 --> 00:24:36.519
Yeah.
00:24:37.628 --> 00:24:40.648
So let's go back to being practical about this.
00:24:40.868 --> 00:24:44.318
So you know, we're feeling a negative emotion.
00:24:44.318 --> 00:24:47.689
It's manifested into something that physically hurts us right now.
00:24:47.709 --> 00:24:54.669
let's just say anxiety, you know, we're having a hard time breathing or we feel it in our gut, you know, like you do with, you want to give me an example?
00:24:54.739 --> 00:25:03.378
Cause I love when people, you know, kind of, cause I could, I could show you how this works because that, that's sometimes really powerful.
00:25:04.433 --> 00:25:04.933
Okay.
00:25:05.034 --> 00:25:08.544
let's take one that everybody's had heartbreak, right?
00:25:08.544 --> 00:25:11.114
we all have had heartbreak and we all feel it.
00:25:11.324 --> 00:25:12.824
We know where that pain is, right?
00:25:12.834 --> 00:25:13.473
Right in the gut.
00:25:13.574 --> 00:25:18.193
Also speak from, so you give an example as if it's you, cause that will be helpful.
00:25:18.223 --> 00:25:19.804
So I could show you the skills.
00:25:19.894 --> 00:25:20.564
Is that okay?
00:25:21.159 --> 00:25:21.558
Sure.
00:25:22.038 --> 00:25:22.159
Okay.
00:25:23.128 --> 00:25:23.669
yeah.
00:25:23.709 --> 00:25:25.769
somebody has hurt me.
00:25:26.398 --> 00:25:34.699
really, disappointed me and, and, that relationship is not going to go move forward because when it hurts, right.
00:25:34.818 --> 00:25:41.798
Or, or somebody just died that I really loved and, you know, that, that really hurts.
00:25:41.959 --> 00:25:47.788
so as you're thinking about this loss, you know, what thoughts are coming to your mind?
00:25:48.788 --> 00:25:50.368
is there fears?
00:25:50.368 --> 00:25:51.479
Is there concerns?
00:25:51.509 --> 00:25:54.648
Is there emotions that you're feeling in your body?
00:25:54.659 --> 00:25:57.628
You know, what's going on for you as you're feeling this grief and this loss?
00:25:58.628 --> 00:26:15.439
okay, let me really put myself in that state and I'm thinking about, one of my best friends, as a child who in my early twenties passed and I'm remembering the call I got to hear that he passed and you know, the initial is like, yeah, no way.
00:26:16.534 --> 00:26:24.923
and you start to accept it, then it's just, hopelessness and a, tremendous pain you feel in your gut.
00:26:25.463 --> 00:26:25.864
yeah.
00:26:26.384 --> 00:26:34.493
So as you're feeling the hopelessness and the pain, it sounds like he was really significant to you, right?
00:26:34.973 --> 00:26:36.564
Like you just said that your best friend.
00:26:37.243 --> 00:26:40.884
a really, really integral percent in your life.
00:26:41.253 --> 00:26:47.423
what thoughts are coming up for you as you're thinking about him as you're thinking about your grief and your loss, Because it's pretty shocking.
00:26:47.443 --> 00:26:48.503
unexpectedly.
00:26:49.828 --> 00:26:53.019
Yeah, it was very shocking.
00:26:53.048 --> 00:26:54.038
it was a suicide.
00:26:55.499 --> 00:26:59.229
and he was not the kind of person that, you would expect that from.
00:26:59.259 --> 00:27:00.638
He was very confident.
00:27:01.278 --> 00:27:07.598
Go-getter, just kind of got into bad things and that, led one thing to the other.
00:27:08.209 --> 00:27:08.598
Yeah.
00:27:08.848 --> 00:27:10.144
you mentioned helplessness.
00:27:11.979 --> 00:27:14.219
Cause that stuck out for me that you felt helpless.
00:27:15.854 --> 00:27:16.064
Right.
00:27:16.413 --> 00:27:24.223
So is there some thoughts around that, that helplessness, especially because, you know, of course, by suicide, he made the choice, right.
00:27:24.848 --> 00:27:26.019
it was something that happened.
00:27:26.019 --> 00:27:36.088
So any, you know, tell me, yeah, I'm thinking initially when I heard, you know, I think I had like, I'm trying to put myself in that place again.
00:27:36.638 --> 00:27:40.618
And, you know, there was a, We had kind of drifted apart.
00:27:40.618 --> 00:27:41.578
I went off to college.
00:27:41.578 --> 00:27:43.219
He stayed back in our old neighborhood.
00:27:43.219 --> 00:27:43.519
Right.
00:27:43.858 --> 00:27:49.878
So there was a phase of feeling like, Oh man, if I had stayed back, then maybe, it wouldn't have happened.
00:27:49.878 --> 00:27:51.409
I could have stopped him from it.
00:27:51.409 --> 00:27:54.628
He wouldn't have gone down the path he did, things like that.
00:27:55.328 --> 00:27:57.538
Then, there's the hopelessness.
00:27:58.398 --> 00:28:04.009
Yeah, the more, you start to get into, what's life going to be without him?
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:17.038
Like, I just can't imagine it, So I just wrote down a couple of different points, So I have to say that, like you said, I'm hearing like a little bit of guilt, right?
00:28:17.278 --> 00:28:22.519
Like, gosh, I could have done something to avoid this from happening, right?
00:28:23.929 --> 00:28:24.669
and There's anger.
00:28:24.669 --> 00:28:24.818
There's anger.
00:28:25.019 --> 00:28:25.398
Why?
00:28:25.479 --> 00:28:26.028
Why would you do that?
00:28:26.699 --> 00:28:27.108
Yeah.
00:28:27.148 --> 00:28:27.999
Well, maybe anger.
00:28:27.999 --> 00:28:28.828
Like, why did you do that?
00:28:28.828 --> 00:28:33.659
And also like, what could I have done to help this not happen, right?
00:28:33.699 --> 00:28:40.296
If I would have been home, if I would have been with you if I would have stayed home and spend time with you or whatever the case is.
00:28:41.066 --> 00:28:42.536
How is life going to be without him?
00:28:42.546 --> 00:28:43.885
Like I have this void now.
00:28:44.165 --> 00:28:44.695
Exactly.
00:28:44.796 --> 00:28:50.625
So I have to say that I am, I'm so taken aback by your values.
00:28:50.976 --> 00:28:55.175
and it really speaks to what an incredible friend you are.
00:28:56.526 --> 00:29:01.648
want to do anything to help him so that he, could be out of this distress.
00:29:02.118 --> 00:29:03.558
Like you're incredible.
00:29:03.558 --> 00:29:14.898
the fact that, you can't imagine life without him because you're such an incredible friend and you have such connected relationships is amazing.
00:29:15.749 --> 00:29:21.769
I have to say that, you know, here's a person, like you said, who seemed perfectly okay.
00:29:22.173 --> 00:29:22.564
Right?
00:29:22.614 --> 00:29:25.804
Like he seemed perfectly okay, there were maybe no signs of it.
00:29:26.324 --> 00:29:29.203
Like how could this happen, right?
00:29:29.253 --> 00:29:35.943
And maybe even connecting with his distress, like really feeling like how he might have felt, right?
00:29:35.943 --> 00:29:38.384
To take these drastic measures.
00:29:38.854 --> 00:29:39.183
Yeah.
00:29:39.663 --> 00:29:40.294
Yeah.
00:29:40.463 --> 00:29:42.433
So you really want to feel better?
00:29:42.773 --> 00:29:43.604
I don't know.
00:29:43.614 --> 00:29:46.953
Because that would actually make you not be as a wonderful friend as you are.
00:29:47.943 --> 00:29:51.743
So like intrinsic and being the friend you are, you kind of have to have these.
00:29:52.028 --> 00:29:54.409
really sad and painful feelings.
00:29:54.788 --> 00:30:01.269
And it, pays homage to who you are and what an incredible friend you are and were to him.
00:30:01.828 --> 00:30:04.739
And I honor that and respect that so much about you.
00:30:06.233 --> 00:30:09.084
How did that feel?
00:30:10.993 --> 00:30:13.273
it was, well, your response was great.
00:30:13.314 --> 00:30:13.733
Thank you.
00:30:14.334 --> 00:30:14.913
It helped.
00:30:15.394 --> 00:30:20.784
I actually didn't think I could go back in that time and realize, I could still feel that way.
00:30:21.163 --> 00:30:21.423
Yeah.
00:30:21.943 --> 00:30:26.663
I could see by your emotions how raw it is, right?
00:30:26.743 --> 00:30:31.733
like, we were just saying before how we could connect to our pain.
00:30:32.203 --> 00:30:32.544
Yeah.
00:30:32.864 --> 00:30:41.683
In such a raw way and just kind of talking about it elicited these feelings for you as if it happened yesterday, and that's what I'm talking about.
00:30:42.153 --> 00:30:46.183
so the point that I'm making is the feelings just don't go away.
00:30:46.394 --> 00:30:52.034
We can't avoid and deny them because as we could see just by your reaction.
00:30:52.584 --> 00:30:52.923
Right.
00:30:53.203 --> 00:30:56.663
There's still there and if we don't heal them.
00:30:57.949 --> 00:31:20.138
And if we don't work on them, they show up, whether we like it or not, they do, you know, it's like a suitcase that we carry through our lives and we keep adding things and adding things to our suitcase and we need to unload the suitcase, you know, and I could see the pain on your face and it, you know, like it's eliciting kind of sadness in me.
00:31:20.568 --> 00:31:22.199
I almost want to come there and hug you.
00:31:22.499 --> 00:31:24.058
Honestly, I really feel that way.
00:31:24.614 --> 00:31:29.013
I'm really touched by, like, I'm on a friend like you, that's what it's eliciting in me.
00:31:29.173 --> 00:31:33.953
Like, I really, I wish you were my friend, like, to have so much love for this person.
00:31:34.023 --> 00:31:36.378
Honestly, it's, Yeah.
00:31:36.469 --> 00:31:37.528
It's so heartwarming.
00:31:38.138 --> 00:31:38.689
Literally.
00:31:40.338 --> 00:31:40.919
I mean that.
00:31:41.459 --> 00:31:41.828
Thank you.
00:31:43.568 --> 00:31:43.868
All right.
00:31:43.868 --> 00:31:45.848
This episode wasn't supposed to go this way.
00:31:47.939 --> 00:31:48.489
Sorry.
00:31:48.669 --> 00:31:50.338
So how do we empower that?
00:31:50.459 --> 00:31:52.588
You're going back to your race method.
00:31:54.019 --> 00:31:56.538
So I can see the acceptance and compassion there.
00:31:57.239 --> 00:31:58.469
There's the empowerment in this.
00:31:58.519 --> 00:31:58.939
Yeah.
00:31:59.058 --> 00:32:01.179
So, so let's say, okay.
00:32:01.179 --> 00:32:03.278
And I'm going to kind of twist it a little bit.
00:32:03.278 --> 00:32:14.858
Let's say you carry this guilt and this pain and this shame and everything, and you didn't really work on your self compassion and you didn't connect to the love of being such a wonderful friend and all of that.
00:32:14.858 --> 00:32:17.868
And you ended up being angry and rageful.
00:32:18.479 --> 00:32:27.148
And you decided like, I can't get into intimate relationships because if I do, there's always a risk that somebody is going to die.
00:32:27.788 --> 00:32:28.199
Right?
00:32:28.528 --> 00:32:31.298
Because in your 20s, you're vulnerable for that, right?
00:32:31.318 --> 00:32:33.219
So I'm gonna protect myself.
00:32:33.618 --> 00:32:38.739
I'm gonna avoid getting connected to people because look what happens when I get connected to people, like, they die on me.
00:32:39.388 --> 00:32:58.318
Because sometimes that happens, right, so again, recognizing, that you felt maybe so ineffective or that you felt so insecure, about being able to be effective enough to do something about, helping your friends and all of that, we would work with that.
00:32:58.588 --> 00:33:01.189
We would work with that and we would find ways to empower you.
00:33:02.088 --> 00:33:09.038
Okay, and let's say so much time has passed that it's become routine for you to avoid.
00:33:09.548 --> 00:33:11.118
Connecting deeply with others.
00:33:11.979 --> 00:33:16.459
And maybe in your mind, you feel like you have been doing it, right?
00:33:16.459 --> 00:33:22.088
A fallacy in your mind, you have been doing it and nothing works out Cause we rationalize in our brain.
00:33:22.229 --> 00:33:22.769
What do you mean?
00:33:22.769 --> 00:33:24.098
I'm going on 20 dates.
00:33:24.128 --> 00:33:25.378
I'm going on like whatever.
00:33:25.378 --> 00:33:28.259
And I still can't find the person, that I could connect to.
00:33:28.749 --> 00:33:30.868
All these behaviors that we act out our feelings.
00:33:32.769 --> 00:33:40.519
So, part of that is, like we said, besides the acceptance and compassion, what we would have you do is challenge yourself, okay?
00:33:41.128 --> 00:33:50.519
So maybe, initially, when you're talking to somebody, you would share something small about yourself, something more intimate, something deeper, okay?
00:33:50.828 --> 00:33:54.663
And the first time I would ask you to do it, you may say, I can't do that.
00:33:54.903 --> 00:34:01.403
And maybe the second time you do it, right, you, like, kind of go half in and half out.
00:34:02.394 --> 00:34:14.373
And then the third time, a little bit more, right, but we, again, you would do it incrementally, you would do it slowly and incrementally to literally, okay, because you become in some ways avoidance, right?
00:34:15.284 --> 00:34:22.173
And you also in some ways develop this barrier between giving of yourself because you're so scared.
00:34:23.994 --> 00:34:26.384
So we expose you and we check.
00:34:27.699 --> 00:34:37.914
Challenge you, right, to feel the feelings, and the more you do it, and the more you build your confidence, the more we're building that muscle that allows you to challenge yourself.
00:34:38.704 --> 00:34:40.273
But that takes time.
00:34:40.963 --> 00:34:41.773
It takes time.
00:34:42.934 --> 00:34:45.123
And you may come back to me.
00:34:45.184 --> 00:34:45.474
Okay.
00:34:45.474 --> 00:34:46.704
This is, this may happen too.
00:34:47.494 --> 00:34:49.494
Maybe you'll put yourself out there and guess what?
00:34:49.733 --> 00:34:51.153
Somebody is not going to act favorably.
00:34:51.614 --> 00:34:51.954
Okay.
00:34:51.954 --> 00:34:52.733
They're not going to embrace it.
00:34:52.744 --> 00:34:54.603
They're going to say, Oh, I don't want to hear that.
00:34:54.614 --> 00:34:55.503
That's too personal.
00:34:57.023 --> 00:34:58.583
Or they're going to reject you.
00:34:58.673 --> 00:35:04.713
Even though you kind of gave up yourself, they end up rejecting you because that's life.
00:35:05.489 --> 00:35:07.518
That happens, right?
00:35:07.878 --> 00:35:12.708
People don't necessarily react or act to you based on how you want them to.
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:13.909
It just doesn't work that way.
00:35:14.759 --> 00:35:15.068
Right?
00:35:15.228 --> 00:35:19.438
So I would say, okay, like we got to keep practicing and got to keep practicing.
00:35:19.438 --> 00:35:24.429
And the more you practice, the more your nervous system catches up, right?
00:35:24.478 --> 00:35:26.909
And the more your confidence builds.
00:35:27.523 --> 00:35:30.583
And that's part of empowering yourself.
00:35:30.873 --> 00:35:40.523
I came up with a list, you know, you might be curious, if this might be interesting to you, a list of, ways that we kind of empower ourselves.
00:35:41.204 --> 00:35:46.213
And, you know, I'll just read like a couple of them, but people who live empowered lives.
00:35:46.364 --> 00:35:46.824
I just shut off.
00:35:46.893 --> 00:35:47.454
That's strange.
00:35:47.994 --> 00:35:49.744
People who live empowered lives.
00:35:50.164 --> 00:35:51.943
I came up with a couple of criteria.
00:35:51.974 --> 00:35:55.523
So one is that they accept and face diversity, no matter how challenging.
00:35:56.903 --> 00:35:59.974
have a mission and purpose that are led by their values.
00:36:00.853 --> 00:36:03.684
Find meaning and opportunity for growth in challenging times.
00:36:04.523 --> 00:36:06.893
Have a social support network and support others.
00:36:06.954 --> 00:36:09.474
Can self regulate and control their impulses.
00:36:09.528 --> 00:36:19.010
I think there's a lot of different ways that we as individuals are able to improvise, remain flexible, open, and aware, are open to deeper, more connected relationships, and seek out new experiences that enrich their lives.
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:23.699
So, again, there's all of these, you know, many, many, many, many ways.
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:27.369
And I give all these different, like, you know, even language that we use, right?
00:36:27.369 --> 00:36:30.360
Here's like a chart on language that we use to empower ourselves.
00:36:30.650 --> 00:36:35.429
There's so many different components of empowering ourselves in so many different ways.
00:36:36.210 --> 00:36:37.190
And if we don't?
00:36:37.690 --> 00:36:38.019
Right.
00:36:38.050 --> 00:36:39.130
Use the skills.
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:43.360
We're at risk of getting in these stucking, you know, stuck places.
00:36:43.829 --> 00:36:44.190
Yeah.
00:36:44.610 --> 00:36:47.190
What about when it's anxiety about the future?
00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:49.230
Does that usually lie in the past?
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:51.289
And do we have to find that first?
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:54.539
There are a thousand reasons why we get worried about the future.
00:36:55.090 --> 00:36:55.469
Yeah.
00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:56.849
There's so many reasons.
00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:57.534
I mean, for good reason.
00:36:58.114 --> 00:36:59.885
For good reasons to some.
00:37:00.155 --> 00:37:02.425
Listen, I work with some people.
00:37:02.764 --> 00:37:09.085
I can't even make their stories up literally like it's a series of bad luck.
00:37:09.125 --> 00:37:10.764
I don't know what you want to call it.
00:37:11.344 --> 00:37:16.175
I mean, I have a woman I'm working with literally her twin sister died.
00:37:16.375 --> 00:37:17.215
Her mother died.
00:37:17.594 --> 00:37:19.635
Her daughter, her daughter died.
00:37:20.014 --> 00:37:20.494
Okay.
00:37:20.835 --> 00:37:30.755
I can't even make this up so traumatic, literally this poor woman, you may say, how do you get through something like that?
00:37:30.764 --> 00:37:31.954
It's mind blowing, Right.
00:37:32.704 --> 00:37:34.135
People have lives.
00:37:34.164 --> 00:37:35.534
People's lives are challenging.
00:37:35.545 --> 00:37:37.405
we have to be able to roll with the punches.
00:37:38.014 --> 00:37:38.375
Yeah.
00:37:40.385 --> 00:37:40.804
Well, Dr.
00:37:40.804 --> 00:37:46.295
Meydenberg, I know you have to go and we have a hard cutoff, so we're going to skip our worry finder for today.
00:37:46.445 --> 00:37:47.905
I really want to thank you for being here.
00:37:47.905 --> 00:37:50.824
Would you like to let our listeners know where they can learn more about you?
00:37:51.994 --> 00:37:52.764
Absolutely.
00:37:52.815 --> 00:37:54.155
my website is a great place.
00:37:54.235 --> 00:37:57.644
It's my full name, which is Michelle with two L's and Meydenberg is MAI.
00:37:58.905 --> 00:37:59.364
D.
00:37:59.394 --> 00:37:59.655
E.
00:37:59.684 --> 00:38:00.114
N.
00:38:00.414 --> 00:38:00.684
B.
00:38:00.684 --> 00:38:00.894
E.
00:38:00.914 --> 00:38:01.184
R.
00:38:01.184 --> 00:38:01.675
G.
00:38:02.014 --> 00:38:02.664
dot com.
00:38:02.715 --> 00:38:07.085
And my book is called Ace Your Life, Unleash Your Best Self, and Live the Life You Want.
00:38:07.744 --> 00:38:12.735
And, um, I'm always happy to come on again if you have more questions and want to still talk about this.
00:38:13.364 --> 00:38:27.244
Um, and I, and Louis, I, I know that I evoked some feelings, so I would be remiss not to say something about that and I just want to say that I appreciate you being so vulnerable here in front of like, you know, right.
00:38:27.875 --> 00:38:32.125
Um, and, and I'm sorry for your loss, I really am.
00:38:32.125 --> 00:38:39.275
It sounds so profound and I see that it really, has impacted you so I just really as a person I want to reach out and say that to you.
00:38:39.875 --> 00:38:40.405
Well, thank you.
00:38:41.105 --> 00:38:42.204
Thank you very much, Dr.
00:38:42.204 --> 00:38:44.894
Meidenberg for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.
00:38:44.945 --> 00:38:46.844
maybe we do need to have you back.
00:38:46.875 --> 00:38:48.474
We didn't even get through half the questions.
00:38:48.474 --> 00:38:52.485
I mean, no, no, no.
00:38:52.485 --> 00:38:53.315
That's what we wanted.
00:38:53.425 --> 00:38:54.125
What we wanted.
00:38:54.125 --> 00:38:57.675
So I really appreciate it was so nice meeting you.
00:38:57.675 --> 00:39:01.204
And again, I'm very happy to come back again.
00:39:01.344 --> 00:39:01.655
Yeah.
00:39:01.804 --> 00:39:02.324
Sounds good.
00:39:02.505 --> 00:39:02.844
Thank you.
00:39:07.614 --> 00:39:09.375
We hope you've enjoyed The Wayfinder Show.
00:39:09.525 --> 00:39:13.744
If you got value from this episode, please take a few seconds to leave us a 5 star rating and review.
00:39:14.034 --> 00:39:18.284
This will allow us to help more people find their way to live more authentic and exciting lives.
00:39:18.945 --> 00:39:20.244
We'll catch you on the next episode.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.019
People will make changes when they feel high confidence, not when they feel low confidence.
00:00:05.910 --> 00:00:09.029
So it's building up confidence throughout the entire process.
00:00:09.130 --> 00:00:10.599
And that's what this helps with.
00:00:10.970 --> 00:00:14.339
So any stuckness that gets in the way, I don't care what it is.
00:00:14.750 --> 00:00:17.850
If you have these set of tools, you will be able to get through it.
00:00:27.750 --> 00:00:39.149
Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.
00:00:40.210 --> 00:00:48.130
Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
00:00:49.420 --> 00:00:52.070
Come join us and find the way to your dream life.
00:01:02.429 --> 00:01:03.978
Welcome back to the wayfinder show.
00:01:03.978 --> 00:01:06.899
I'm your host louis hernandez and today i'm here with dr.
00:01:06.899 --> 00:01:12.968
Michelle made in berg She's a distinguished psychologist author and advocate for mental health.
00:01:13.498 --> 00:01:22.558
Dr Made in berg is the co founder and clinical director of through my eyes a non profit providing video legacies for those with chronic illnesses.
00:01:22.868 --> 00:01:31.368
She teaches mindfulness at NYU, serves on multiple boards, including the Boys and Girls Club of Mount Vernon and the Westchester Trauma Network.
00:01:31.409 --> 00:01:34.978
And she's also a member of the American Red Cross Crisis Team.
00:01:35.588 --> 00:01:41.159
She's an accomplished author with books like Free Your Child from Overeating and Ace Your Life.
00:01:41.489 --> 00:01:45.118
Michelle also shares her insights through the TED Talks, which I've watched over the years.
00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:47.489
Psychology Today and her YouTube channel.
00:01:47.748 --> 00:01:51.998
Her work is a testament to her dedication to health and mental health advocacy.
00:01:52.858 --> 00:01:53.149
Dr.
00:01:53.149 --> 00:01:55.058
Meidenberg, welcome to The Wayfinder Show.
00:01:55.618 --> 00:01:58.638
Thank you for having me and thank you for that wonderful introduction.
00:01:58.948 --> 00:01:59.728
Yeah, thank you.
00:01:59.739 --> 00:02:00.659
You're so accomplished.
00:02:00.659 --> 00:02:02.409
It was really hard to cut it down to that.
00:02:02.459 --> 00:02:12.508
I'm going to start with what your own question that you started on your TED talk with and how does one sit with negative emotions?
00:02:14.139 --> 00:02:22.639
That is the mystery of the world because it is so antithetical to who we are as human beings.
00:02:23.368 --> 00:02:31.848
Our brain is wired to protect us from danger and discomfort 24 7 and we have reptilian brains.
00:02:32.649 --> 00:02:36.438
So even again, we're talking about perceived danger, right?
00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:40.209
How many times do you get fearful of things?
00:02:40.718 --> 00:02:44.718
And it doesn't necessarily warrant you to get as fearful as you get.
00:02:45.508 --> 00:02:50.068
So our brain is constantly hyper vigilant and it's constantly protecting us.
00:02:50.929 --> 00:02:56.304
So when it experiences negative emotions, which is very typical and average and normal for people.
00:02:57.133 --> 00:03:04.713
And when we're talking about negative emotions, we're talking about emotions such as sadness, disappointment, frustration, anger, you know, right, there's a whole gamut.
00:03:05.304 --> 00:03:13.804
So if we were able to, we would opt for more positive emotions, joyfulness, gleefulness, happiness, right?
00:03:14.014 --> 00:03:16.933
They feel much better in our nervous system.
00:03:17.394 --> 00:03:30.593
And our bodies, but the wonderful thing about having negative emotions is it teaches us really what triggers us and it helps us to understand what's important, right?
00:03:30.633 --> 00:03:34.533
I always say that there's pain and values and values and pain.
00:03:35.133 --> 00:03:38.394
So if we're grounded in our values.
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If we feel pain, it gives us information.
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That's something right.
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It is again that we're leaning up against a value and we're going to have inevitable pain.
00:03:51.954 --> 00:03:57.204
We know that a value is being rubbed up against, so we need to know that.
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That helps us in our relationships.
00:03:58.954 --> 00:04:02.563
It helps us in our self growth in so many different ways.
00:04:03.003 --> 00:04:13.163
So that if you perceive negative emotions differently, not like again, you know, you know, antithetical to being a human being, right?
00:04:13.163 --> 00:04:18.863
Because if you look on the Internet and you go out there, what does it say?
00:04:19.004 --> 00:04:21.463
It says avoid negative emotions.
00:04:22.149 --> 00:04:22.899
be happy.
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Don't be sad.
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And if you are sad, do whatever you can to be happy.
00:04:27.499 --> 00:04:30.939
So we're constantly and chronically, up against ourselves.
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And it's, so prohibitive for us.
00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:34.869
Yeah.
00:04:34.869 --> 00:04:37.098
Can you describe about those prohibitions?
00:04:37.098 --> 00:04:42.108
Like, how does it show up, for us in the way we think, the way we make decisions, the way we act?
00:04:42.733 --> 00:04:45.944
it shows up all the time.
00:04:46.004 --> 00:04:54.353
in our behaviors, for example, I was just talking to somebody the other day, whether it's, relative to health and wellness, people struggle with weight.
00:04:55.173 --> 00:05:02.343
People struggle with overeating and, you know, somebody will tell, I was just with this young girl, she was in her twenties the other day.
00:05:02.863 --> 00:05:09.694
And she was so distressed because, and again, visually she looks, she's beautiful.
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She's beautiful.
00:05:10.494 --> 00:05:11.994
She's actually average weight.
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but the thing that bothers her that she struggles with is she gets very obsessive over food and then she kind of binges at times.
00:05:22.314 --> 00:05:28.303
Although she looks and appears perfectly normal and she's beautiful and that's not really the issue.
00:05:28.524 --> 00:05:38.434
It's more about her being disturbed about being out of control and she's so hyper functioning in every other way.
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She's actually in college at an Ivy league, you know, so she, you know, she's very successful, but in this way, it's so disturbing to her because she just can't, you know, get it right.
00:05:52.894 --> 00:06:00.764
And yeah, and so what ends up happening and that we talk about this, you know, she, she, again, she was telling me about a binge that happened the other day.
00:06:00.903 --> 00:06:06.853
she went from being at home to going to her boyfriend and on and on and then how she was like kind of snacking all the way through.
00:06:07.293 --> 00:06:08.853
She was kind of overdoing it.
00:06:09.423 --> 00:06:14.113
I said to her, were you having any thoughts or feelings as you were going along your way and snacking?
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And she's like, no, I just, automatically put the food in my mouth.
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And I said to her, okay, let's slow you down a little bit.
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People argue with me all the time.
00:06:22.173 --> 00:06:24.084
No, I wasn't thinking anything.
00:06:24.084 --> 00:06:27.334
It was just kind of like automatically in my mouth.
00:06:27.374 --> 00:06:29.173
And there wasn't even a thought in my mind.
00:06:29.194 --> 00:06:32.033
And when I slow them down, inevitably they'll tell me.
00:06:32.684 --> 00:06:34.934
Oh, actually, I did have a thought.
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I had a thought of like, Oh, do I really need this right now?
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Or do I need to have so many?
00:06:40.514 --> 00:06:42.634
Or Oh, tomorrow?
00:06:42.663 --> 00:06:56.889
It's okay, if I do this, because tomorrow I'll work out, you know, again, all of these self defeating thoughts, all these rationalizations that we ignore, because we ignore the negative emotions, and we give into them in order to get better.
00:06:57.108 --> 00:06:58.408
Again, to get pleasure, right?
00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:03.218
That dope, but we have that dopamine fix in the moment that really kind of encapsulates us.
00:07:03.269 --> 00:07:04.749
And then we just give into the behavior.
00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:11.519
If we were to sit with the discomfort, like I want this, I'm having an urge right now.
00:07:12.598 --> 00:07:21.108
This is going on for me and it really upsets me that I have, that it's hard for me to control this.
00:07:21.658 --> 00:07:29.918
And I feel really sad that my mind takes over and then I give into these behaviors and it makes me feel weak.
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It makes me feel insecure, right?
00:07:33.259 --> 00:07:34.379
But we don't take the time.
00:07:34.408 --> 00:07:37.079
And then, then you can make a mindful decision.
00:07:37.278 --> 00:07:39.959
Then you could say, how do I want to behave?
00:07:40.178 --> 00:07:43.009
Given the fact that I think and feel this way in this moment.
00:07:43.553 --> 00:07:45.324
But we don't give ourselves the opportunity.
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We don't.
00:07:47.463 --> 00:07:53.733
Yeah, that, that's interesting because I feel like, you have to recognize that you're doing that first, right?
00:07:53.733 --> 00:08:01.334
Like an example you're giving with overeating, we almost have to recognize that we're overeating, and that is showing up as a way of.
00:08:02.233 --> 00:08:04.524
as a symptom of our negative emotion.
00:08:04.524 --> 00:08:04.733
Right.
00:08:04.733 --> 00:08:09.894
So we have to recognize that first before we could even consciously decide to sit with it.
00:08:10.004 --> 00:08:13.483
Because we all have things that we do to hide those emotions, right?
00:08:13.483 --> 00:08:15.434
And we're thinking, okay, not thinking anything.
00:08:15.444 --> 00:08:16.764
we might not be conscious of it.
00:08:17.348 --> 00:08:18.399
here lies the problem.
00:08:19.468 --> 00:08:20.608
we repress.
00:08:21.103 --> 00:08:23.574
because of avoiding the negative emotion.
00:08:23.613 --> 00:08:25.454
That's part of the problem for a lot of people.
00:08:26.163 --> 00:08:35.514
In other words, people aren't even connected to their emotions because they're so used to denying, distracting from, avoiding.
00:08:35.793 --> 00:08:43.374
That's what we do because it feels so uncomfortable and it becomes this vicious cycle.
00:08:43.714 --> 00:08:50.923
those behaviors, really play themselves out, not only with food, substances, relationship, anger, frustration.
00:08:51.033 --> 00:08:52.183
I mean, I could go on and on.
00:08:52.234 --> 00:08:56.043
And there are so many people, by the way, who hyperfunction in some ways.
00:08:56.839 --> 00:09:00.668
like this woman, this girl, she's in an Ivy league academically.
00:09:00.668 --> 00:09:10.418
She's stellar, but in this way she feels like a complete and utter, she's completely and utterly insecure and feels like a complete failure.
00:09:11.099 --> 00:09:13.908
So we're also, we're multidimensional.
00:09:14.328 --> 00:09:17.028
We could be, and I see people like this all the time, right?
00:09:17.028 --> 00:09:22.389
They function so well at work, but then at home, not so well, or their relationships suffer, or.
00:09:22.793 --> 00:09:26.043
they have wonderful relationships, but they can't function in other ways.
00:09:26.624 --> 00:09:33.894
So it's kind of understand all of our parts, understanding that there's value in all emotions across the spectrum.
00:09:34.984 --> 00:09:39.634
And also not believing everything you think and feel that is really critical.
00:09:39.864 --> 00:09:47.583
I have a sign on my door, actually, that says that don't believe everything you think and feel because our mind is wired in that way.
00:09:47.604 --> 00:09:51.183
It leads us sometimes to have thoughts and feelings that are actually inaccurate.
00:09:51.183 --> 00:09:58.913
There's so many barriers that go into our thinking and our feeling, and it could do with how we're raised in our families, socioculturally.
00:10:00.124 --> 00:10:03.264
think about how much we're exposed to in the internet today.
00:10:04.724 --> 00:10:16.234
And even what's going on in the world for that matter, I mean, that's a good example too, Our beliefs are, and I see this, people's beliefs shift so quickly because of hearing something or experiencing something.
00:10:16.614 --> 00:10:20.144
That's how we're kind of fickle in some ways, but our brains are fickle.
00:10:20.703 --> 00:10:24.614
Well, that's the whole point, but the other thing to understand too, which is so critical.
00:10:24.614 --> 00:10:27.634
And I teach that in my book, because we need to know how our brain is structured.
00:10:27.634 --> 00:10:33.844
We need to know about our neurocognition and having an education about that gives people so much relief.
00:10:33.884 --> 00:10:40.653
When I teach people about their brains, they're like, Oh, that's why that happens.
00:10:40.653 --> 00:10:41.384
Oh my goodness.
00:10:41.464 --> 00:10:48.323
And when it happens, they're more connected to it and more conscious of it, like you were saying, and then they could behave differently.
00:10:48.803 --> 00:10:53.453
And not do that rote thing, and that rote pattern of behavior that they've always been doing.
00:10:53.453 --> 00:10:58.193
So, when I talk about this rote behavior, we're talking about neural pathways that get formed.
00:10:58.504 --> 00:11:00.374
That gets formed in our childhood.
00:11:01.614 --> 00:11:03.653
Now, if you think about it, okay?
00:11:03.683 --> 00:11:10.734
If you have a football field, and I make a path on that football field, and people cross, okay?
00:11:10.734 --> 00:11:12.644
And I say to them, okay, cross the field.
00:11:12.793 --> 00:11:13.994
Where do you think they're going to go?
00:11:14.984 --> 00:11:17.594
They're going to go right for the path.
00:11:18.058 --> 00:11:20.979
They're not going to go on the grass, the sides of the path.
00:11:21.109 --> 00:11:21.719
Why?
00:11:21.958 --> 00:11:23.668
Because that's what our brains do.
00:11:24.068 --> 00:11:26.149
It follows the path that's familiar.
00:11:26.619 --> 00:11:27.448
That's great.
00:11:27.499 --> 00:11:28.908
That feels comfortable.
00:11:30.908 --> 00:11:35.788
Instead of, again, we take the path of least resistance.
00:11:35.828 --> 00:11:37.318
Our brain doesn't want to work hard.
00:11:37.719 --> 00:11:42.269
So it follows patterns of behavior that it's used to and that's familiar and comfortable.
00:11:43.729 --> 00:11:45.369
you talked about the past.
00:11:46.038 --> 00:11:55.379
how do our past create, a lot of negative emotions that we've negative experiences that we draw from the past and almost like, I think even more so than the positive ones, right?
00:11:55.379 --> 00:12:08.938
Like they affect more of our, I know I am impacted by my past negative experiences probably more so than I dwell on trying to avoid that again, the positive ones and trying to relive the positive ones, right?
00:12:09.219 --> 00:12:24.714
How can we, learn to let those go so we can yeah, you're talking again about our brains are wired Now if you think about it your brain only holds on to memories, that are painful and distressing.
00:12:25.344 --> 00:12:29.583
It doesn't hold on to positive memories.
00:12:30.083 --> 00:12:35.043
It doesn't need to, because it doesn't have to warn us or it's, there isn't any inherent threat.
00:12:36.104 --> 00:12:36.994
So it doesn't hold on to it.
00:12:36.994 --> 00:12:41.469
That's why, like, if you're on an event, let's say your wedding, I don't know.
00:12:41.479 --> 00:12:42.629
I'm just making this up, right?
00:12:43.119 --> 00:12:48.828
Like people say, you know, take every moment in because it's so fleeting and it's so true, right?
00:12:48.828 --> 00:12:54.019
Like five hours goes by like this and before you know it's over and you have literally no memory of it.
00:12:54.298 --> 00:12:55.629
Now I have four children.
00:12:55.849 --> 00:12:56.239
Okay.
00:12:56.278 --> 00:13:00.969
And people say, Oh, the day you give birth is the happiest day of your life and whatever.
00:13:01.058 --> 00:13:02.928
If you ask me what time was it?
00:13:02.928 --> 00:13:03.438
They gave birth.
00:13:03.438 --> 00:13:03.859
What day?
00:13:03.859 --> 00:13:04.249
Whatever.
00:13:04.599 --> 00:13:08.509
I mean, I know their birthdays obviously, but I'm saying what time of day, what time of day.
00:13:10.443 --> 00:13:13.573
I can't differentiate between my four kids, I'll be honest with you.
00:13:13.984 --> 00:13:17.634
could I really, if you said to me, what did it feel like in that moment?
00:13:18.254 --> 00:13:21.134
I could imagine what it felt like.
00:13:21.193 --> 00:13:27.874
I could like imagine what happiness and joy feels like in that moment, but I can't feel it viscerally on a gut level.
00:13:27.894 --> 00:13:30.644
I just can't as much as I try to.
00:13:31.283 --> 00:13:36.043
If I ask you, think about a time that was the most distressing for you.
00:13:36.969 --> 00:13:42.249
And the most painful and close your eyes and try to really tap into that pain.
00:13:42.869 --> 00:13:44.278
You'll have a memory of it.
00:13:45.538 --> 00:13:45.958
Yes.
00:13:46.028 --> 00:13:46.359
Yeah.
00:13:46.408 --> 00:13:47.198
Why?
00:13:47.479 --> 00:13:48.908
Again, it's the hypervigilance.
00:13:49.629 --> 00:13:56.408
Your brain is protecting you from any future pain, from any future grief, from any future whatever.
00:13:56.818 --> 00:13:59.729
So it has to remember it.
00:13:59.889 --> 00:14:10.573
And then the problem with that, if you think about it is in the future, When you have thoughts or feelings that mimic that pain, it makes this natural association, right?
00:14:10.583 --> 00:14:13.754
It's synapses that make this natural association.
00:14:14.134 --> 00:14:17.443
And then we think that we're in the same type of event.
00:14:18.384 --> 00:14:21.823
So we behave in the same way, but guess what?
00:14:21.903 --> 00:14:28.864
Those events don't necessarily call for that behavior because now we're adults, we don't have to, right?
00:14:29.344 --> 00:14:35.004
it doesn't make sense if you think about it, it makes absolutely no sense, but that is the way our brain is wired.
00:14:35.734 --> 00:14:37.043
But how do we get past that?
00:14:38.644 --> 00:14:47.754
is there a technique to say, all right, thank you for the, offering to protect me from this past negative experience, but, I'm going to be okay now I'm going to go and jump.
00:14:48.384 --> 00:14:48.693
Right.
00:14:49.124 --> 00:14:50.543
that's my life's work.
00:14:51.854 --> 00:14:52.053
Good.
00:14:52.494 --> 00:14:57.844
So, we need to get your whole life's work out of you in the next half hour.
00:14:57.844 --> 00:14:58.163
Yes.
00:14:58.214 --> 00:14:58.364
Please.
00:15:00.364 --> 00:15:02.224
So that's the method that I developed.
00:15:02.224 --> 00:15:04.224
It's called ACE, which is ACE your life.
00:15:04.364 --> 00:15:07.933
And it's predicated on Acceptance, compassion, and empowerment.
00:15:08.793 --> 00:15:13.364
Those are the barriers that don't let us get through our stuckness that I've come up with.
00:15:14.214 --> 00:15:19.173
And when I talk about acceptance, we're not talking about accepting mediocrity.
00:15:19.344 --> 00:15:21.953
We're not talking about just relenting.
00:15:21.964 --> 00:15:23.793
We're talking about noticing things.
00:15:23.813 --> 00:15:27.994
And I teach barriers and I teach skills on how to accomplish that.
00:15:28.614 --> 00:15:29.974
You know, compassion.
00:15:30.354 --> 00:15:33.474
We learn how to be compassionate towards others.
00:15:33.594 --> 00:15:36.144
We never learn how to be self-compassionate.
00:15:36.663 --> 00:15:37.803
We don't learn in school.
00:15:37.923 --> 00:15:42.094
We hardly ever learn it from our parents because they don't know how to do it either.
00:15:42.984 --> 00:15:43.464
You know?
00:15:43.464 --> 00:15:48.293
And again, there's a lot of barriers in place that don't allow us to do that.
00:15:48.323 --> 00:15:52.313
Now I ha when I'm with my patients, I have them do these skills.
00:15:53.288 --> 00:16:00.489
And I have to tell you, it is so difficult and challenging for people to be self compassionate.
00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:09.119
It's so uncomfortable in our bodies, you know, and when I teach my class, I'll do a lot of exercises that challenge that.
00:16:09.413 --> 00:16:16.014
And I have to tell you, you know what I get on my evaluations, you know, they're like, that was really hard.
00:16:16.014 --> 00:16:17.453
And, you know, I didn't want to do that.
00:16:17.453 --> 00:16:23.244
And it made me feel uncomfortable but again, we have to be able to do that even in our intimate relationships.
00:16:23.948 --> 00:16:24.428
Okay.
00:16:24.749 --> 00:16:30.058
why do intimate relationships fail is because we're not willing to be vulnerable in our intimate relationships at times.
00:16:30.668 --> 00:16:33.538
And what does that even look like from person to person that varies.
00:16:34.428 --> 00:16:35.328
And then empowerment.
00:16:35.818 --> 00:16:38.308
The problem isn't with behavior change.
00:16:38.349 --> 00:16:39.509
We actually know how to do that.
00:16:40.609 --> 00:16:42.759
There's so many resources out there.
00:16:42.798 --> 00:16:48.938
I mean, that was just in the past three years, there's been like five, like bestselling books on habits, habit changes.
00:16:49.168 --> 00:16:50.028
And by the way, I read them.
00:16:50.038 --> 00:16:51.438
They're all fantastic.
00:16:51.438 --> 00:16:52.089
They're incredible.
00:16:52.418 --> 00:16:56.298
What I find is people know how to change habits.
00:16:56.328 --> 00:16:58.178
They don't know how to maintain them.
00:16:58.749 --> 00:17:03.168
That's the problem over time, And that's the issue.
00:17:03.168 --> 00:17:04.798
So I talk about empowerment.
00:17:04.808 --> 00:17:09.828
People will make changes when they feel high confidence, not when they feel low confidence.
00:17:10.729 --> 00:17:13.848
So it's building up confidence throughout the entire process.
00:17:13.929 --> 00:17:15.409
And that's what this helps with.
00:17:15.778 --> 00:17:18.969
So any stuckness that gets in the way, I don't care what it is.
00:17:19.558 --> 00:17:22.659
If you have these set of tools, you will be able to get through it.
00:17:24.699 --> 00:17:26.598
and I have examples that I've worked on.
00:17:27.368 --> 00:17:28.189
Give us an example.
00:17:29.618 --> 00:17:48.578
I have literally like these transformation miracles that I've seen with, Some of my patients that literally have tears running down my eyes when I think about where they were and where they are, when we have that conversation and they themselves say to me, like, Oh my gosh, like they forget because they feel so much better.
00:17:49.138 --> 00:17:57.669
And then I say, do you know when I first started seeing you and they get so emotional because they're like, Oh my gosh, I forgot.
00:17:57.709 --> 00:17:59.378
I never would have actually done that.
00:17:59.618 --> 00:18:05.959
When I first started with you, I'm amazed that they forget, they forget where they were at, which is amazing.
00:18:06.568 --> 00:18:09.929
So, it's part of our human experience to experience stuckness.
00:18:09.959 --> 00:18:11.618
There's no one who's unscathed.
00:18:12.239 --> 00:18:24.509
I feel like in today's society, we have a much greater awareness around some of these emotional issues and we diagnose them as mental health issues, right?
00:18:24.538 --> 00:18:32.999
So, I'm thinking specifically depression, anxiety, you know, to the point where I believe you correct me if I'm wrong.
00:18:33.219 --> 00:18:36.989
I don't know, but they're actually diagnosable as having mental health.
00:18:37.699 --> 00:18:41.838
Issues right and you can be prescribed, pills for that kind of stuff right?
00:18:42.259 --> 00:18:44.259
So do you think that?
00:18:45.058 --> 00:18:53.979
we have some of that in my own household, And I think it keeps us stuck from, in fear and we're making decisions We actually just had a big family meeting around this the other day.
00:18:54.348 --> 00:19:00.878
we have a daughter that's approaching college age and that's a big trigger time period for people with that.
00:19:00.878 --> 00:19:01.159
Right?
00:19:01.388 --> 00:19:02.108
So, yeah.
00:19:02.628 --> 00:19:25.239
So, I'm wondering, you know, there's all of these influences, that are coming, her friends are saying, you know, like, they all have the same issues, and, you know, some of them see therapists and get diagnosed certain pills and what have you, and others don't, but, you know, at the end of the day, I, I feel like it is an avoidance of, of trying to get, you know, take on those negative emotions.
00:19:25.239 --> 00:19:31.818
It gets stuck in so much of what could go wrong, leads to anxiety and not making a decision, right?
00:19:32.354 --> 00:19:33.394
it's a mind body thing.
00:19:33.403 --> 00:19:39.614
So yeah, you know, it's uncomfortable in our minds because right thought thinking is Challenging.
00:19:39.933 --> 00:19:44.443
it's comfortable feelings and even more so which is what you're talking about.
00:19:44.453 --> 00:20:01.338
It's uncomfortable somatically in our bodies Okay, that's what becomes a lot of the issue, you know people develop somatic symptoms to their anxiety depression, etc whether it's, a rapid heart rate, whether it's restlessness, whether it's headaches.
00:20:01.798 --> 00:20:02.169
Right.
00:20:02.969 --> 00:20:03.598
You know, backache.
00:20:03.888 --> 00:20:08.239
I mean, there's chronic health issues that come out of high levels of stress.
00:20:08.894 --> 00:20:21.284
Because our nervous system, if you think about it, it really wreaks havoc on our nervous system, we see that with chronic stress and chronic depression, it could lead to a lot of health related somatic symptoms.
00:20:21.534 --> 00:20:25.568
So when people feel so uncomfortable in their bodies, they want to get rid of it.
00:20:25.598 --> 00:20:28.509
It just, you know, and again, I could speak for myself.
00:20:28.898 --> 00:20:36.568
I know when I become, sad or anxious, actually I found, I'll tell you last night I was sitting and I'm, going through some personal.
00:20:37.338 --> 00:20:39.318
It's kind of relational stuff myself.
00:20:39.959 --> 00:20:49.588
And I noticed that lately, cause I do a lot of mindfulness and meditative practice, but I noticed lately that I've been, just cause there's so much going on in the world.
00:20:49.608 --> 00:20:54.679
I'm constantly like on Instagram and YouTube and finding out what's going on.
00:20:54.729 --> 00:21:05.538
And I listened to the news and whatever, and I said to myself, I don't really just give myself space to like think, you know, like I'm constantly, constantly inundated with news and, distracted.
00:21:06.239 --> 00:21:13.638
So I decided last night, I'm going to be in silence, like everything that I do, I'm actually not turning on anything.
00:21:14.439 --> 00:21:24.419
I burst out into tears, literally, because I didn't realize I was holding on to emotions and I was totally distracting from them.
00:21:24.419 --> 00:21:33.699
I literally sat down in a chair upstairs in my bedroom and I cried and I said, what is going on with me right now?
00:21:33.739 --> 00:21:40.398
And I just sat there and hurt myself and did everything that I, ask my patients to do.
00:21:40.429 --> 00:21:58.358
And I, kind of was thinking like, what's going through my mind and how am I feeling in this moment, and where is it affecting me and my body, and what is compelling my behavior right now, and what do I need for myself in this moment of suffering, and not to get rid of it.
00:21:59.499 --> 00:22:07.378
But more to be self compassionate towards myself so that I could live the life I want to be living and live a thriving life.
00:22:07.409 --> 00:22:08.679
And that was the question.
00:22:09.199 --> 00:22:14.009
And the first thing that came to my mind was, I want things to be the way they were.
00:22:14.038 --> 00:22:16.909
I felt this nostalgia towards like more like grief.
00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:21.118
And then I realized, no, like, that's not really what's going on.
00:22:21.118 --> 00:22:22.209
I'm just feeling pain.
00:22:22.209 --> 00:22:22.588
So it's.
00:22:22.913 --> 00:22:29.273
leading me to grasp towards the past, but that's not really what's going to help my future.
00:22:30.183 --> 00:22:33.453
and I gave myself that moment of grief, like it was okay.
00:22:33.453 --> 00:22:35.554
I said, yeah, this is really hard.
00:22:35.564 --> 00:22:37.413
This is a big transition.
00:22:37.923 --> 00:22:39.554
This is really hard.
00:22:40.304 --> 00:22:45.054
You know, this is really sad, you know, and I deserve to have this moment for myself.
00:22:45.983 --> 00:22:47.364
And That was not easy.
00:22:47.564 --> 00:22:48.354
Really hard.
00:22:49.864 --> 00:22:58.413
Do you know that I find that there's usually a different state that we're in When we're having this level of introspection, right?
00:22:58.423 --> 00:23:07.713
Like we're either looking into the past almost in a euphoric way looking back at it when truth is often time You know, we we well, whatever.
00:23:07.713 --> 00:23:10.153
We're either looking towards or looking towards the future, right?
00:23:10.203 --> 00:23:31.019
And we're not often, thinking about now, but I wonder if there's differences in how How do our bodies and ourselves react based on where we're looking to people who look in fear of the future react differently than people who are in euphoria of the past or vice versa or most definitely.
00:23:31.128 --> 00:23:31.558
Yeah.
00:23:31.628 --> 00:23:31.729
Okay.
00:23:32.009 --> 00:23:36.439
You know, there's this kind of saying that people who look in the past tend to be more depressed.
00:23:37.088 --> 00:23:39.229
Regret and guilt and shame.
00:23:39.719 --> 00:23:46.528
People who look towards the future tend to be more anxious because there's worry and then just worry anxiety.
00:23:47.038 --> 00:23:47.429
Which makes sense.
00:23:48.019 --> 00:23:56.328
If you think about it, that's why the only thing that we actually know is what's going on now in the present moment.
00:23:57.128 --> 00:24:00.568
I can't tell you what's going to happen in five minutes from now, literally.
00:24:00.838 --> 00:24:03.788
I can't tell you what's going to happen in five hours from now.
00:24:03.858 --> 00:24:04.689
I have no clue.
00:24:04.838 --> 00:24:07.818
All I know is right now, I am talking to you.
00:24:09.499 --> 00:24:10.128
I'm safe.
00:24:10.249 --> 00:24:10.999
I'm breathing.
00:24:11.058 --> 00:24:11.659
I'm here.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:12.519
That's all I know.
00:24:12.828 --> 00:24:13.229
That's right.
00:24:13.259 --> 00:24:13.548
Dr.
00:24:13.548 --> 00:24:14.679
Medenberg, I'm not going to hurt you.
00:24:15.358 --> 00:24:16.669
It's okay.
00:24:16.749 --> 00:24:17.608
You're perfectly safe here.
00:24:18.798 --> 00:24:19.479
I feel it.
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:20.179
I feel the love.
00:24:23.108 --> 00:24:30.259
But, that's why it's so difficult to be in the present moment because our mind is constantly fluctuating between the past and the future.
00:24:30.699 --> 00:24:34.798
It really is rarely in the present moment and it's so hard to be here.
00:24:34.909 --> 00:24:35.419
It is.
00:24:36.128 --> 00:24:36.519
Yeah.
00:24:37.628 --> 00:24:40.648
So let's go back to being practical about this.
00:24:40.868 --> 00:24:44.318
So you know, we're feeling a negative emotion.
00:24:44.318 --> 00:24:47.689
It's manifested into something that physically hurts us right now.
00:24:47.709 --> 00:24:54.669
let's just say anxiety, you know, we're having a hard time breathing or we feel it in our gut, you know, like you do with, you want to give me an example?
00:24:54.739 --> 00:25:03.378
Cause I love when people, you know, kind of, cause I could, I could show you how this works because that, that's sometimes really powerful.
00:25:04.433 --> 00:25:04.933
Okay.
00:25:05.034 --> 00:25:08.544
let's take one that everybody's had heartbreak, right?
00:25:08.544 --> 00:25:11.114
we all have had heartbreak and we all feel it.
00:25:11.324 --> 00:25:12.824
We know where that pain is, right?
00:25:12.834 --> 00:25:13.473
Right in the gut.
00:25:13.574 --> 00:25:18.193
Also speak from, so you give an example as if it's you, cause that will be helpful.
00:25:18.223 --> 00:25:19.804
So I could show you the skills.
00:25:19.894 --> 00:25:20.564
Is that okay?
00:25:21.159 --> 00:25:21.558
Sure.
00:25:22.038 --> 00:25:22.159
Okay.
00:25:23.128 --> 00:25:23.669
yeah.
00:25:23.709 --> 00:25:25.769
somebody has hurt me.
00:25:26.398 --> 00:25:34.699
really, disappointed me and, and, that relationship is not going to go move forward because when it hurts, right.
00:25:34.818 --> 00:25:41.798
Or, or somebody just died that I really loved and, you know, that, that really hurts.
00:25:41.959 --> 00:25:47.788
so as you're thinking about this loss, you know, what thoughts are coming to your mind?
00:25:48.788 --> 00:25:50.368
is there fears?
00:25:50.368 --> 00:25:51.479
Is there concerns?
00:25:51.509 --> 00:25:54.648
Is there emotions that you're feeling in your body?
00:25:54.659 --> 00:25:57.628
You know, what's going on for you as you're feeling this grief and this loss?
00:25:58.628 --> 00:26:15.439
okay, let me really put myself in that state and I'm thinking about, one of my best friends, as a child who in my early twenties passed and I'm remembering the call I got to hear that he passed and you know, the initial is like, yeah, no way.
00:26:16.534 --> 00:26:24.923
and you start to accept it, then it's just, hopelessness and a, tremendous pain you feel in your gut.
00:26:25.463 --> 00:26:25.864
yeah.
00:26:26.384 --> 00:26:34.493
So as you're feeling the hopelessness and the pain, it sounds like he was really significant to you, right?
00:26:34.973 --> 00:26:36.564
Like you just said that your best friend.
00:26:37.243 --> 00:26:40.884
a really, really integral percent in your life.
00:26:41.253 --> 00:26:47.423
what thoughts are coming up for you as you're thinking about him as you're thinking about your grief and your loss, Because it's pretty shocking.
00:26:47.443 --> 00:26:48.503
unexpectedly.
00:26:49.828 --> 00:26:53.019
Yeah, it was very shocking.
00:26:53.048 --> 00:26:54.038
it was a suicide.
00:26:55.499 --> 00:26:59.229
and he was not the kind of person that, you would expect that from.
00:26:59.259 --> 00:27:00.638
He was very confident.
00:27:01.278 --> 00:27:07.598
Go-getter, just kind of got into bad things and that, led one thing to the other.
00:27:08.209 --> 00:27:08.598
Yeah.
00:27:08.848 --> 00:27:10.144
you mentioned helplessness.
00:27:11.979 --> 00:27:14.219
Cause that stuck out for me that you felt helpless.
00:27:15.854 --> 00:27:16.064
Right.
00:27:16.413 --> 00:27:24.223
So is there some thoughts around that, that helplessness, especially because, you know, of course, by suicide, he made the choice, right.
00:27:24.848 --> 00:27:26.019
it was something that happened.
00:27:26.019 --> 00:27:36.088
So any, you know, tell me, yeah, I'm thinking initially when I heard, you know, I think I had like, I'm trying to put myself in that place again.
00:27:36.638 --> 00:27:40.618
And, you know, there was a, We had kind of drifted apart.
00:27:40.618 --> 00:27:41.578
I went off to college.
00:27:41.578 --> 00:27:43.219
He stayed back in our old neighborhood.
00:27:43.219 --> 00:27:43.519
Right.
00:27:43.858 --> 00:27:49.878
So there was a phase of feeling like, Oh man, if I had stayed back, then maybe, it wouldn't have happened.
00:27:49.878 --> 00:27:51.409
I could have stopped him from it.
00:27:51.409 --> 00:27:54.628
He wouldn't have gone down the path he did, things like that.
00:27:55.328 --> 00:27:57.538
Then, there's the hopelessness.
00:27:58.398 --> 00:28:04.009
Yeah, the more, you start to get into, what's life going to be without him?
00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:17.038
Like, I just can't imagine it, So I just wrote down a couple of different points, So I have to say that, like you said, I'm hearing like a little bit of guilt, right?
00:28:17.278 --> 00:28:22.519
Like, gosh, I could have done something to avoid this from happening, right?
00:28:23.929 --> 00:28:24.669
and There's anger.
00:28:24.669 --> 00:28:24.818
There's anger.
00:28:25.019 --> 00:28:25.398
Why?
00:28:25.479 --> 00:28:26.028
Why would you do that?
00:28:26.699 --> 00:28:27.108
Yeah.
00:28:27.148 --> 00:28:27.999
Well, maybe anger.
00:28:27.999 --> 00:28:28.828
Like, why did you do that?
00:28:28.828 --> 00:28:33.659
And also like, what could I have done to help this not happen, right?
00:28:33.699 --> 00:28:40.296
If I would have been home, if I would have been with you if I would have stayed home and spend time with you or whatever the case is.
00:28:41.066 --> 00:28:42.536
How is life going to be without him?
00:28:42.546 --> 00:28:43.885
Like I have this void now.
00:28:44.165 --> 00:28:44.695
Exactly.
00:28:44.796 --> 00:28:50.625
So I have to say that I am, I'm so taken aback by your values.
00:28:50.976 --> 00:28:55.175
and it really speaks to what an incredible friend you are.
00:28:56.526 --> 00:29:01.648
want to do anything to help him so that he, could be out of this distress.
00:29:02.118 --> 00:29:03.558
Like you're incredible.
00:29:03.558 --> 00:29:14.898
the fact that, you can't imagine life without him because you're such an incredible friend and you have such connected relationships is amazing.
00:29:15.749 --> 00:29:21.769
I have to say that, you know, here's a person, like you said, who seemed perfectly okay.
00:29:22.173 --> 00:29:22.564
Right?
00:29:22.614 --> 00:29:25.804
Like he seemed perfectly okay, there were maybe no signs of it.
00:29:26.324 --> 00:29:29.203
Like how could this happen, right?
00:29:29.253 --> 00:29:35.943
And maybe even connecting with his distress, like really feeling like how he might have felt, right?
00:29:35.943 --> 00:29:38.384
To take these drastic measures.
00:29:38.854 --> 00:29:39.183
Yeah.
00:29:39.663 --> 00:29:40.294
Yeah.
00:29:40.463 --> 00:29:42.433
So you really want to feel better?
00:29:42.773 --> 00:29:43.604
I don't know.
00:29:43.614 --> 00:29:46.953
Because that would actually make you not be as a wonderful friend as you are.
00:29:47.943 --> 00:29:51.743
So like intrinsic and being the friend you are, you kind of have to have these.
00:29:52.028 --> 00:29:54.409
really sad and painful feelings.
00:29:54.788 --> 00:30:01.269
And it, pays homage to who you are and what an incredible friend you are and were to him.
00:30:01.828 --> 00:30:04.739
And I honor that and respect that so much about you.
00:30:06.233 --> 00:30:09.084
How did that feel?
00:30:10.993 --> 00:30:13.273
it was, well, your response was great.
00:30:13.314 --> 00:30:13.733
Thank you.
00:30:14.334 --> 00:30:14.913
It helped.
00:30:15.394 --> 00:30:20.784
I actually didn't think I could go back in that time and realize, I could still feel that way.
00:30:21.163 --> 00:30:21.423
Yeah.
00:30:21.943 --> 00:30:26.663
I could see by your emotions how raw it is, right?
00:30:26.743 --> 00:30:31.733
like, we were just saying before how we could connect to our pain.
00:30:32.203 --> 00:30:32.544
Yeah.
00:30:32.864 --> 00:30:41.683
In such a raw way and just kind of talking about it elicited these feelings for you as if it happened yesterday, and that's what I'm talking about.
00:30:42.153 --> 00:30:46.183
so the point that I'm making is the feelings just don't go away.
00:30:46.394 --> 00:30:52.034
We can't avoid and deny them because as we could see just by your reaction.
00:30:52.584 --> 00:30:52.923
Right.
00:30:53.203 --> 00:30:56.663
There's still there and if we don't heal them.
00:30:57.949 --> 00:31:20.138
And if we don't work on them, they show up, whether we like it or not, they do, you know, it's like a suitcase that we carry through our lives and we keep adding things and adding things to our suitcase and we need to unload the suitcase, you know, and I could see the pain on your face and it, you know, like it's eliciting kind of sadness in me.
00:31:20.568 --> 00:31:22.199
I almost want to come there and hug you.
00:31:22.499 --> 00:31:24.058
Honestly, I really feel that way.
00:31:24.614 --> 00:31:29.013
I'm really touched by, like, I'm on a friend like you, that's what it's eliciting in me.
00:31:29.173 --> 00:31:33.953
Like, I really, I wish you were my friend, like, to have so much love for this person.
00:31:34.023 --> 00:31:36.378
Honestly, it's, Yeah.
00:31:36.469 --> 00:31:37.528
It's so heartwarming.
00:31:38.138 --> 00:31:38.689
Literally.
00:31:40.338 --> 00:31:40.919
I mean that.
00:31:41.459 --> 00:31:41.828
Thank you.
00:31:43.568 --> 00:31:43.868
All right.
00:31:43.868 --> 00:31:45.848
This episode wasn't supposed to go this way.
00:31:47.939 --> 00:31:48.489
Sorry.
00:31:48.669 --> 00:31:50.338
So how do we empower that?
00:31:50.459 --> 00:31:52.588
You're going back to your race method.
00:31:54.019 --> 00:31:56.538
So I can see the acceptance and compassion there.
00:31:57.239 --> 00:31:58.469
There's the empowerment in this.
00:31:58.519 --> 00:31:58.939
Yeah.
00:31:59.058 --> 00:32:01.179
So, so let's say, okay.
00:32:01.179 --> 00:32:03.278
And I'm going to kind of twist it a little bit.
00:32:03.278 --> 00:32:14.858
Let's say you carry this guilt and this pain and this shame and everything, and you didn't really work on your self compassion and you didn't connect to the love of being such a wonderful friend and all of that.
00:32:14.858 --> 00:32:17.868
And you ended up being angry and rageful.
00:32:18.479 --> 00:32:27.148
And you decided like, I can't get into intimate relationships because if I do, there's always a risk that somebody is going to die.
00:32:27.788 --> 00:32:28.199
Right?
00:32:28.528 --> 00:32:31.298
Because in your 20s, you're vulnerable for that, right?
00:32:31.318 --> 00:32:33.219
So I'm gonna protect myself.
00:32:33.618 --> 00:32:38.739
I'm gonna avoid getting connected to people because look what happens when I get connected to people, like, they die on me.
00:32:39.388 --> 00:32:58.318
Because sometimes that happens, right, so again, recognizing, that you felt maybe so ineffective or that you felt so insecure, about being able to be effective enough to do something about, helping your friends and all of that, we would work with that.
00:32:58.588 --> 00:33:01.189
We would work with that and we would find ways to empower you.
00:33:02.088 --> 00:33:09.038
Okay, and let's say so much time has passed that it's become routine for you to avoid.
00:33:09.548 --> 00:33:11.118
Connecting deeply with others.
00:33:11.979 --> 00:33:16.459
And maybe in your mind, you feel like you have been doing it, right?
00:33:16.459 --> 00:33:22.088
A fallacy in your mind, you have been doing it and nothing works out Cause we rationalize in our brain.
00:33:22.229 --> 00:33:22.769
What do you mean?
00:33:22.769 --> 00:33:24.098
I'm going on 20 dates.
00:33:24.128 --> 00:33:25.378
I'm going on like whatever.
00:33:25.378 --> 00:33:28.259
And I still can't find the person, that I could connect to.
00:33:28.749 --> 00:33:30.868
All these behaviors that we act out our feelings.
00:33:32.769 --> 00:33:40.519
So, part of that is, like we said, besides the acceptance and compassion, what we would have you do is challenge yourself, okay?
00:33:41.128 --> 00:33:50.519
So maybe, initially, when you're talking to somebody, you would share something small about yourself, something more intimate, something deeper, okay?
00:33:50.828 --> 00:33:54.663
And the first time I would ask you to do it, you may say, I can't do that.
00:33:54.903 --> 00:34:01.403
And maybe the second time you do it, right, you, like, kind of go half in and half out.
00:34:02.394 --> 00:34:14.373
And then the third time, a little bit more, right, but we, again, you would do it incrementally, you would do it slowly and incrementally to literally, okay, because you become in some ways avoidance, right?
00:34:15.284 --> 00:34:22.173
And you also in some ways develop this barrier between giving of yourself because you're so scared.
00:34:23.994 --> 00:34:26.384
So we expose you and we check.
00:34:27.699 --> 00:34:37.914
Challenge you, right, to feel the feelings, and the more you do it, and the more you build your confidence, the more we're building that muscle that allows you to challenge yourself.
00:34:38.704 --> 00:34:40.273
But that takes time.
00:34:40.963 --> 00:34:41.773
It takes time.
00:34:42.934 --> 00:34:45.123
And you may come back to me.
00:34:45.184 --> 00:34:45.474
Okay.
00:34:45.474 --> 00:34:46.704
This is, this may happen too.
00:34:47.494 --> 00:34:49.494
Maybe you'll put yourself out there and guess what?
00:34:49.733 --> 00:34:51.153
Somebody is not going to act favorably.
00:34:51.614 --> 00:34:51.954
Okay.
00:34:51.954 --> 00:34:52.733
They're not going to embrace it.
00:34:52.744 --> 00:34:54.603
They're going to say, Oh, I don't want to hear that.
00:34:54.614 --> 00:34:55.503
That's too personal.
00:34:57.023 --> 00:34:58.583
Or they're going to reject you.
00:34:58.673 --> 00:35:04.713
Even though you kind of gave up yourself, they end up rejecting you because that's life.
00:35:05.489 --> 00:35:07.518
That happens, right?
00:35:07.878 --> 00:35:12.708
People don't necessarily react or act to you based on how you want them to.
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:13.909
It just doesn't work that way.
00:35:14.759 --> 00:35:15.068
Right?
00:35:15.228 --> 00:35:19.438
So I would say, okay, like we got to keep practicing and got to keep practicing.
00:35:19.438 --> 00:35:24.429
And the more you practice, the more your nervous system catches up, right?
00:35:24.478 --> 00:35:26.909
And the more your confidence builds.
00:35:27.523 --> 00:35:30.583
And that's part of empowering yourself.
00:35:30.873 --> 00:35:40.523
I came up with a list, you know, you might be curious, if this might be interesting to you, a list of, ways that we kind of empower ourselves.
00:35:41.204 --> 00:35:46.213
And, you know, I'll just read like a couple of them, but people who live empowered lives.
00:35:46.364 --> 00:35:46.824
I just shut off.
00:35:46.893 --> 00:35:47.454
That's strange.
00:35:47.994 --> 00:35:49.744
People who live empowered lives.
00:35:50.164 --> 00:35:51.943
I came up with a couple of criteria.
00:35:51.974 --> 00:35:55.523
So one is that they accept and face diversity, no matter how challenging.
00:35:56.903 --> 00:35:59.974
have a mission and purpose that are led by their values.
00:36:00.853 --> 00:36:03.684
Find meaning and opportunity for growth in challenging times.
00:36:04.523 --> 00:36:06.893
Have a social support network and support others.
00:36:06.954 --> 00:36:09.474
Can self regulate and control their impulses.
00:36:09.528 --> 00:36:19.010
I think there's a lot of different ways that we as individuals are able to improvise, remain flexible, open, and aware, are open to deeper, more connected relationships, and seek out new experiences that enrich their lives.
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:23.699
So, again, there's all of these, you know, many, many, many, many ways.
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:27.369
And I give all these different, like, you know, even language that we use, right?
00:36:27.369 --> 00:36:30.360
Here's like a chart on language that we use to empower ourselves.
00:36:30.650 --> 00:36:35.429
There's so many different components of empowering ourselves in so many different ways.
00:36:36.210 --> 00:36:37.190
And if we don't?
00:36:37.690 --> 00:36:38.019
Right.
00:36:38.050 --> 00:36:39.130
Use the skills.
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:43.360
We're at risk of getting in these stucking, you know, stuck places.
00:36:43.829 --> 00:36:44.190
Yeah.
00:36:44.610 --> 00:36:47.190
What about when it's anxiety about the future?
00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:49.230
Does that usually lie in the past?
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:51.289
And do we have to find that first?
00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:54.539
There are a thousand reasons why we get worried about the future.
00:36:55.090 --> 00:36:55.469
Yeah.
00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:56.849
There's so many reasons.
00:36:56.920 --> 00:36:57.534
I mean, for good reason.
00:36:58.114 --> 00:36:59.885
For good reasons to some.
00:37:00.155 --> 00:37:02.425
Listen, I work with some people.
00:37:02.764 --> 00:37:09.085
I can't even make their stories up literally like it's a series of bad luck.
00:37:09.125 --> 00:37:10.764
I don't know what you want to call it.
00:37:11.344 --> 00:37:16.175
I mean, I have a woman I'm working with literally her twin sister died.
00:37:16.375 --> 00:37:17.215
Her mother died.
00:37:17.594 --> 00:37:19.635
Her daughter, her daughter died.
00:37:20.014 --> 00:37:20.494
Okay.
00:37:20.835 --> 00:37:30.755
I can't even make this up so traumatic, literally this poor woman, you may say, how do you get through something like that?
00:37:30.764 --> 00:37:31.954
It's mind blowing, Right.
00:37:32.704 --> 00:37:34.135
People have lives.
00:37:34.164 --> 00:37:35.534
People's lives are challenging.
00:37:35.545 --> 00:37:37.405
we have to be able to roll with the punches.
00:37:38.014 --> 00:37:38.375
Yeah.
00:37:40.385 --> 00:37:40.804
Well, Dr.
00:37:40.804 --> 00:37:46.295
Meydenberg, I know you have to go and we have a hard cutoff, so we're going to skip our worry finder for today.
00:37:46.445 --> 00:37:47.905
I really want to thank you for being here.
00:37:47.905 --> 00:37:50.824
Would you like to let our listeners know where they can learn more about you?
00:37:51.994 --> 00:37:52.764
Absolutely.
00:37:52.815 --> 00:37:54.155
my website is a great place.
00:37:54.235 --> 00:37:57.644
It's my full name, which is Michelle with two L's and Meydenberg is MAI.
00:37:58.905 --> 00:37:59.364
D.
00:37:59.394 --> 00:37:59.655
E.
00:37:59.684 --> 00:38:00.114
N.
00:38:00.414 --> 00:38:00.684
B.
00:38:00.684 --> 00:38:00.894
E.
00:38:00.914 --> 00:38:01.184
R.
00:38:01.184 --> 00:38:01.675
G.
00:38:02.014 --> 00:38:02.664
dot com.
00:38:02.715 --> 00:38:07.085
And my book is called Ace Your Life, Unleash Your Best Self, and Live the Life You Want.
00:38:07.744 --> 00:38:12.735
And, um, I'm always happy to come on again if you have more questions and want to still talk about this.
00:38:13.364 --> 00:38:27.244
Um, and I, and Louis, I, I know that I evoked some feelings, so I would be remiss not to say something about that and I just want to say that I appreciate you being so vulnerable here in front of like, you know, right.
00:38:27.875 --> 00:38:32.125
Um, and, and I'm sorry for your loss, I really am.
00:38:32.125 --> 00:38:39.275
It sounds so profound and I see that it really, has impacted you so I just really as a person I want to reach out and say that to you.
00:38:39.875 --> 00:38:40.405
Well, thank you.
00:38:41.105 --> 00:38:42.204
Thank you very much, Dr.
00:38:42.204 --> 00:38:44.894
Meidenberg for being here and sharing your wisdom with us.
00:38:44.945 --> 00:38:46.844
maybe we do need to have you back.
00:38:46.875 --> 00:38:48.474
We didn't even get through half the questions.
00:38:48.474 --> 00:38:52.485
I mean, no, no, no.
00:38:52.485 --> 00:38:53.315
That's what we wanted.
00:38:53.425 --> 00:38:54.125
What we wanted.
00:38:54.125 --> 00:38:57.675
So I really appreciate it was so nice meeting you.
00:38:57.675 --> 00:39:01.204
And again, I'm very happy to come back again.
00:39:01.344 --> 00:39:01.655
Yeah.
00:39:01.804 --> 00:39:02.324
Sounds good.
00:39:02.505 --> 00:39:02.844
Thank you.
00:39:07.614 --> 00:39:09.375
We hope you've enjoyed The Wayfinder Show.
00:39:09.525 --> 00:39:13.744
If you got value from this episode, please take a few seconds to leave us a 5 star rating and review.
00:39:14.034 --> 00:39:18.284
This will allow us to help more people find their way to live more authentic and exciting lives.
00:39:18.945 --> 00:39:20.244
We'll catch you on the next episode.
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