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Essential Legal Advice for Small Business Owners with Matth…
Send us a text In this episode of The Wayfinder Show, host Luis Hernandez interviews Matthew Fornaro, an experienced attorney specializing …
Sept. 24, 2024
Essential Legal Advice for Small Business Owners with Matthew Fornaro
In this episode of The Wayfinder Show, host Luis Hernandez interviews Matthew Fornaro, an experienced attorney specializing in complex commercial litigation and business law. The discussion covers common legal issues faced by small and medium-sized businesses, the importance of having proper legal documents, and practical advice on integrating a legal team early in the business lifecycle. They also explore the role of AI in the legal field, emphasizing the need for responsible usage. This episode provides valuable insights for entrepreneurs on how to prepare legally to avoid potential pitfalls.
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Transcript
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Anyone can sue anyone at any time for anything.
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So lawsuits are always a possibility, no matter what business you're in or what area of business you're in, what level of business you're on or whatever.
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I mean, it's just part of reality.
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That is, at some point, if you're in business, you're going to probably encounter a lawsuit in some way.
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Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.
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Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
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Come join us and find the way to your dream life.\ Welcome back to the Wayfinder show.
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I am your host, Louis Hernandez.
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And today I'm here with Matthew Fornaro.
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Matthew has been a law attorney serving South Florida, including Corral Springs and Parkland since 2003.
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Before starting his law firm, he was an attorney at two prestigious Amlaw 200 law firms where he focused on civil litigation.
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Today, Matthew practices complex commercial litigation, including contract disputes.
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He's also a member of the Florida Bar and the District of Columbia Bar.
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He also practices construction law, intellectual property law, homeowner and condominium association representation, and he drafts and revises business documents, including the formation of business organizations.
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So with that, Matthew, welcome to the show.
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Thank you for having me, Larry.
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Glad to be here.
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Yeah, I'm glad to have you here, too.
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I'm kind of looking at this as an opportunity to get a really experienced, smart lawyer here and ask him for some free business, uh, law advice, which I don't get very often, so.
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It happens all the time.
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I'm glad to do it.
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Yeah.
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Thank you.
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So before we get into that though, Matthew, tell us a little bit about yourself.
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Well, you know, I'm my, uh, as we were discussing before we started, I'm almost a Florida native.
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I've been here since I was six years old.
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So I kind of knew growing up, I wanted to be an attorney.
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I liked watching like the people's court and cool things like that.
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So I went to undergrad and I took political science to set up for law school.
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I went to law school.
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When I came out, I worked.
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Among other places, a two big am law, 200 law firms.
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And I decided after a while that I wanted to kind of, uh, go out and do my own thing and focus on helping small and medium sized businesses because my dad was a small business owner and I saw the issues that he had, and I didn't really think that that was.
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Being served by uh, our legal community.
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So that's what my focus has been.
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I did that about nine years ago and I've been doing that ever since.
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Neat.
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So what, what do you see as the differences when you were doing civil litigation?
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Was that primarily for big corporations, I'm assuming, or insurance companies?
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Yeah, it was for big corporations.
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Yeah.
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And so what, what did you see as the differences, um, between that and the small business?
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You know, the, the focus on understanding your client as far as a small business versus a big corporation, I think what isn't there a lot in that when you represent a big business or a big corporation or a bank or an insurance company.
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I mean, you have essentially, even though, you know, you got to be responsible to your stuff.
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You have an unlimited war chest, and you can have a winner take all mentality.
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When you represent a small business, you have to be cognizant of the business's needs, the business's cash flow, what they can afford to do, what they can't afford to do, and how And I'll see You know, there's different levels of solutions and different types of solutions for a small business that maybe aren't there for a large business.
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Yeah, like, do, do you find, um, you know, I'm wondering as a small business person most of my life, like I, I don't, I've often, you know, used, go, go on Google forms, Google legal forms, right.
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And use those to get started.
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Right.
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I'm not saying it's right.
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I'm not saying I do that now saying I have done it and uh, and I, I would assume that a big corporation is not going to do that, right?
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They're going to give you a call right from the beginning, make sure everything's done right and tidied up my right.
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That is correct.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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So, so what, um, so with that in mind, what are the troubles that you see small business owners get themselves into because they probably didn't hire a lawyer right from the get go Yeah, you know, a lot of small and medium sized business legal problems are completely avoidable and it goes with the fact that as a small business, you know, people think of lawyers, accountants, bankers, whatever, as a luxury instead of a necessity and as a singular thing instead of a team.
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And the real approach that a smaller, medium sized business should take.
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Is that when they're planning their business, obviously, you'd like to have a written business plan.
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That's a necessity.
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But when you're putting your business together, you want to make sure that you have a cadre of professionals that you can rely on that will help you so that you can focus on your business and they can take all the collateral decisions and issues away from you and not you don't have to worry about it.
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And that's why you want to have.
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You know, a business law attorney, an accountant, a banker, like an I.
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T.
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person, you know, that kind of thing at your disposal is part of a team to help you out.
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Because a lot of times when businesses start out, they only think about attorneys as a reactive solution to a problem that pops up instead of a proactive solution for avoiding issues.
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So, like, for instance, if you're just talking about going on Google to convert documents, that's.
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Okay, but the issue with going on the Internet looking for stuff is that 100 percent the right answer is on the Internet to any question.
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However, 100 percent at the same time, the wrong answer is on the Internet to any question.
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And if you don't have training and you don't know what's going on, you don't know what's right and what's wrong.
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And that's why.
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When you start a business, you want to make sure if you're a corporation, that you have bylaws, that you have articles of incorporation.
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If you're an LLC, that you have an operating agreement.
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And that it's specifically tailored to your business and is basically the road map of how your business operates.
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It says what your business does and doesn't do, how it resolves issues, who does what, who owns what, who pays what, et cetera.
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And if you're just going on the internet looking for stuff, you're going to run into problems.
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Like, for instance.
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I had a client who runs a dog training business and it's pretty successful and he came to me, obviously, after he started this business and he had an issue with an employee and he had an employment contract and his company is located in Fort Lauderdale and he pulled this employment contract off the Internet.
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And the employment contract says that it's governed by Wisconsin law, and that Wisconsin law will apply the venue is Wisconsin, all this crazy language.
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It's totally wrong that he didn't pick up on when he had his employee sign this.
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And so this employee went out and started her own business, rivaling his, took his customer list, literally went down the customer list, called everyone up and said, come over to me, not to him anymore.
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And so when we filed our lawsuit, I mean, I told him this is going to be an issue that you have this Wisconsin language in there and it turned out when, you know, we've served the defendant and the defendant had their attorney come in.
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It was a huge issue because Florida is a very pro, um, business owner, business state in a very weak labor state in Wisconsin apparently is a very.
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Powerful or very labor oriented state.
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So the laws are totally different.
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So what would have been a slam dunk case in Florida was a disastrous.
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It wasn't a disastrous case, I would say, because we settled it, and it was a pretty good settlement, but it could have been disastrous based on him doing a Google search as opposed to going to an attorney and getting a contract written off to begin with.
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Yeah, yeah, good point.
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What about for those folks who, Um, you know, they, they're, they're a bootstrap startup and they like to do research themselves and whatnot.
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Do you, do you think there's a way of, of working together, allowing them to go ahead and do some of that research and save some funds that way, but still bring you in?
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And if so, what is the right way?
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You know, what is a good way of approaching that?
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You know, my advice to any business owners, you want to get a business law attorney, right?
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Involved in your business as soon as possible, preferably before you even start your business.
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And if you started your business, bring him, I mean, bring him in as quickly as you can.
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You have to budget for it.
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Just like you budget for an accountant and things like that.
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Because they're going to help you out.
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Um, obviously, you know, my advice to my clients is if they try to do their own self help and they try to find documents and they try to cut corners or whatever, that is going to turn out very poorly for them in the long run because the documents are just not going to cut it.
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Even if they're decent documents, they're not going to cut it under the law and you're going to run into a situation where you're going to wish you had good documents.
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So I kind of discouraged my clients from doing that.
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I, you know, I mean, I'd much rather them have something done by an attorney if they can't afford an attorney.
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I mean, they can go to like, you know, just don't do it yourself.
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Go to legal zoom, which, you know, or a document preparation service like that, if you can't afford an attorney, but definitely don't do it yourself.
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Okay.
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Uh, you've mentioned accountants a couple times and even the whole, uh, team that some, you know, small business person should have.
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I've, uh, in my experience, I, you know, I have a lawyer and I have an accountant and oftentimes they advise me, uh, very differently, right?
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One kind of it seems to advise me for risk mitigation, uh, being a lawyer and a tax, uh, person.
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You know, the accountant tends to advise me based on what's going to be most advantageous for my taxes.
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Um, I'm sure you run into this quite a bit, right?
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How do you, from your side, your perspective, how do you deal with it?
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Yeah, I deal with that issue a lot because obviously I work with a lot of accountants for my clients.
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And what I generally do is I defer to the accountant.
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You know, I don't go out there and say, I'm right.
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It's my way, you know, I work with the accountant and I'm like, look.
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We can do things for your business a lot of ways legally, like we can have different business organizations, we can have different contracts in place, you know, different, um, whatever you want in place.
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However, there's only so many economic slash money ways we can do things from an accounting perspective.
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So if you screw up legally, for lack of a better term, we can always go fix it.
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For the most part, we can change you from a corporation to an LLC.
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We can put in a different operating agreement.
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We can change your vendor contract.
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We can do whatever if we Don't do things correctly from an accounting standpoint.
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It's very hard to go back and fix that because you're gonna get killed on your taxes You're gonna, you know, and you're not gonna be able to recover that.
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So when I work with accountants, I always defer to them and be like, look, if possible, what's best economically for the client.
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And then I'll go make it work from the legal perspective.
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And that's certainly how I deal with accountants.
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That's great.
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Yeah, honestly, uh, I've known a lot of lawyers and worked with a lot of lawyers, and that's the first time I hear that as a perspective.
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So I, uh, gosh, I wish I was in, in your part of Florida.
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Yeah.
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No, I mean, that's, it's the truth.
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I mean, look.
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Um, we can do a lot of things from the legal perspective.
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There's not a lot of things you can do from the accounting perspective as far as fixing things and doing stuff properly.
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Sure.
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And like I said, if you screw up on the accounting side, you're done and there's no way you can go back and fix it because you're not going to get money you paid to the IRS back.
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Right.
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You're not going to get another second bite of the apple, but legally you can, so.
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Yeah.
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What are some of the most common legal issues that you're seeing out there for small business owners nowadays?
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Okay.
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You know, it's a little bit about what we talked about, you know, not having the right documents in place and then it comes back and bites them because you get a dispute with someone you're in business with and then you don't know how to resolve it because you don't have.
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Bylaws, you don't have an operating agreement, so you got to go.
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So, whatever the statute say, which is never a good solution.
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So you get a lot of internal business fighting, you get a lot of issues because they don't have their documents.
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You get the usual people owe you money, you owe people money, you know, you have issues with your employees, things like that.
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It's pretty, I don't want to say run of the mill, but most of the issues you face come down to like maybe four or five areas and those are them.
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Okay.
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Um, what about when somebody does, do you, do you do litigation still at all?
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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So what do you think a good way to react to a lawsuit is?
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Like, how do you approach that?
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Well, obviously, first, you got to take it definitely seriously.
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I know a lot of people who just get a lawsuit and they're like, Oh, let me throw it to the side or whatever.
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I mean, you know, you got to take it very, I mean, that's your whole livelihood at stake.
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So you got to take every lawsuit seriously.
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That's my first piece of advice to anyone is never No matter how frivolous or how stupid a lawsuit is, you always got to take it seriously because it can always result in catastrophic consequences.
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No matter how dumb it is, how poorly played it is, how, um, frivolous it is.
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So take it seriously.
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The other thing I say is when you get sued, You know, obviously you want to reach out to your attorney as soon as possible so that they can have as many solutions as possible to address the lawsuit.
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So, for instance, depending on what industry you're in and what the lawsuit's about, a lot of these lawsuits are covered by your various insurances.
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So that's why, you know, just because you're sued doesn't mean you're coming out of pocket to pay for the defense.
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It could be covered by your, you know, your business insurance, your liability insurance.
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Um, you know, your auto insurance, depending on what it is.
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So there's lots of different insurance in there.
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So I always say, check for insurance coverage on whatever the lawsuit is.
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And then if they pick it up, great, and they'll defend you.
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And it's out of your hands, you don't have to worry about paying your attorney.
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If they don't pick it up, you want to make sure that they tell you that they're not going to cover your lawsuit.
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So then you don't go back later on after you go through a full.
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Okay.
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Lawsuit all the litigation and stuff would be like, oh, I could have had the company cover that because they're not going to cover it at that point.
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So that's 1 of the other things I say is all.
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Always presented to your various insurance companies to see if there's any coverage there before you give up.
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And then, let's say, there's no insurance coverage, and you got to go take care of it.
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You know, yourself, you know, hire an attorney who does.
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In business case, business litigation, not just someone who's like.
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A personal injury attorney or a criminal law attorney or a family attorney who.
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You know, you met him at the beach.
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He's pretty cool.
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You want to retain his services or you met him at the, uh, pickleball court or whatever you want someone who focuses on the area that you're being sued in to, uh, represent you.
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So you want to make sure for business litigation, you have someone who's familiar with business litigation and then obviously.
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Once you have that in place, then you put together litigation strategy, discuss what you want to do.
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Like, are there merits to this claim?
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Are there no merits?
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What's your budget going to be?
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Do you want to try to settle the case?
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Do you want to settle soon?
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Do you want to settle later?
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Do you want to file a counterclaim?
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Do you have claims against them?
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And you put together a whole strategy and then you play out your strategy and that's essentially how you handle litigation.
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You know, um, I had a, a partner in a business that he, he had a different business as well.
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And he, uh, was going through a lawsuit.
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And, uh, you know, what was, he had the same attorney for many years, maybe 15, 20 years, he's older than me, and, and he, uh, got sued, and it was gonna go to court, and he, he's done very well, and he's rarely ever have to go to court, but, uh, with this attorney, He was not willing to litigate and I just remember that moment where he was just furious that he had to go and find a new attorney and such.
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So, uh, since that, that always stuck with me to go make sure that whatever attorney you get, they, they're willing to go to court and go to fight for you.
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Right.
00:18:28.775 --> 00:18:29.065
Yeah.
00:18:29.785 --> 00:18:32.444
Because so many just want to settle nowadays.
00:18:32.484 --> 00:18:33.545
And sometimes.
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.200
That's not the right way to do it.
00:18:36.230 --> 00:18:37.430
Like, you know.
00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:38.039
No.
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:42.269
And as part of, you know, representing businesses, I know my limits.
00:18:42.309 --> 00:18:43.670
I don't try to handle everything.
00:18:43.670 --> 00:18:52.500
I bring in other attorneys to help with various areas when we encounter them representing you as part of your business lifecycle.
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:57.970
So if there's like an employment issue, I will bring in an attorney who focuses solely on employment law.
00:18:58.335 --> 00:19:04.244
So that you get the best information so you can make the best business decisions and we get the best results possible.
00:19:04.244 --> 00:19:07.464
I'm not going to, even though I know about employment law, I'm not going to do that myself.
00:19:07.464 --> 00:19:10.545
I'm going to bring in someone just like intellectual property law.
00:19:10.545 --> 00:19:16.055
I'm going to bring in someone who focuses on that so that we can get the best result for you.
00:19:16.055 --> 00:19:20.150
And that way you can focus on your business and a lot of, you know, people.
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:31.599
I would like to think attorneys think that way, but a lot of attorneys don't and they try to take on more than they can and they go outside their wheelhouse That's right.
00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:48.880
You know, um, I'm wondering if there's certain segments we hear, I'm in real estate and you'll, oh, every course we ever take, you know, for continuing ed and all that say, this is what gets you sued and makes us, it instills this fear that we're always going to get sued all the time.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:49.849
And I wonder.
00:19:50.329 --> 00:20:00.690
Um, if there are if that's the case in like all industries if that's what's getting preached upon that, you know Be careful because I rarely I don't actually see a lot of lawsuits.
00:20:00.869 --> 00:20:09.400
I know I haven't had one in real estate world Well, you know anyone can sue anyone at any time for anything, right?
00:20:09.490 --> 00:20:17.730
So lawsuits are always a possibility no matter what Business, you're in, or what area of business you're in, what level of business you're on or whatever.
00:20:17.730 --> 00:20:20.450
I mean, it's just part of reality that is at some point.
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:24.640
If you're in business, you're going to probably encounter a lawsuit in some way.
00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:28.859
So are there industries that are more volatile than others?
00:20:28.890 --> 00:20:29.700
Well, you know.
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.819
Any business or any industry can blow up at any time.
00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:35.480
It's totally subjective.
00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.269
Depends on what the situation is.
00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:40.400
But are there industries where there's a lot of litigation?
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:46.349
Yeah, real estate, particularly here where I am in Florida, the real estate litigation is huge.
00:20:47.305 --> 00:20:54.795
Both commercial and residential real estate because there's lots of transactions that take place.
00:20:54.795 --> 00:21:01.045
And when there's lots of transactions, there's lots of differences that arise during transactions and that leads to litigation.
00:21:01.545 --> 00:21:09.055
So, you know, real estate, huge area, um, regulated industries and other huge area.
00:21:09.055 --> 00:21:21.920
If you're in a highly regulated business where there's a lot of laws that you have to comply with, Versus just a, you know, run of the mill business, then yeah, another thing where there's plenty of opportunities for lawsuits to come about.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:28.589
So yeah, there's some areas where lawsuits are more likely, but generally speaking, it could happen at any time.
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:29.210
Sure.
00:21:29.829 --> 00:21:30.180
Of course.
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.000
Okay.
00:21:31.329 --> 00:21:48.220
How would you, if you were knowing what you know, um, if you were not a lawyer, how would But you know what, you know, and you are in a different region of the country and you had to find somebody like a Matt, Matthew Fornaro.
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:55.089
How would you go about finding you, you know, in other words, how do you find the best lawyer for your business?
00:21:55.430 --> 00:22:01.269
Well, generally speaking, you know, look, you can go online and look at Google reviews and everything.
00:22:01.940 --> 00:22:07.970
Google reviews are legitimate, they're not bots and they're not, you know, Patsy's put on there for whatever.
00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:09.890
I mean, that's always a good way.
00:22:09.970 --> 00:22:19.319
It's a 1st and last resort, but 1 of the best ways that you can find professionals, not just attorneys, but accountants and bankers and stuff is through referrals.
00:22:19.789 --> 00:22:21.079
So, for instance.
00:22:21.714 --> 00:22:23.204
You're in the real estate space.
00:22:23.204 --> 00:22:26.974
I'm assuming you probably know other people who are in the real estate space.
00:22:27.365 --> 00:22:29.775
So, you know, most of the time.
00:22:30.615 --> 00:22:38.255
Other business owners or other people are generally nice, you know, if you're nice to them, and if you ask them for advice, they'll give it to you.
00:22:38.734 --> 00:22:42.285
So, you know, you would ask someone if you're in the real estate space.
00:22:42.285 --> 00:22:42.464
Yeah.
00:22:42.464 --> 00:22:43.954
Someone else is in the real estate space.
00:22:44.345 --> 00:22:45.865
Hey, who is a good.
00:22:46.190 --> 00:23:04.849
Real estate attorney who is a good litigation attorney that you know of or who is a good Um, whatever attorney and then most of the time they'll tell you like, you know Go to this person or that person or I use this person or whatever or if they don't know Ask them who they know who would know like, do you know?
00:23:04.849 --> 00:23:11.670
Oh, I don't you know I personally never had to use an attorney, but my friend bill who's also in The real estate business.
00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:18.414
I know he's involved in a lawsuit right now and he's doing pretty well with his attorney You And, you know, they'll give you a referral.
00:23:18.414 --> 00:23:40.605
And generally speaking, the referral is going to be better than if you went to find it yourself because you have a level of trust and a level of vetting already in that referral because someone you know already either used that person or someone they know used that person and has experience with them so that you kind of know what you're getting and it's not a, uh, unknown commodity.
00:23:40.605 --> 00:23:42.224
So that would be my advice is.
00:23:42.585 --> 00:23:52.884
You know, you can always go on the internet and look for stuff, but if you can possibly get a referral from another professional in the space that you're in, that's probably where you're going to get your best results from.
00:23:53.575 --> 00:23:53.934
Okay.
00:23:54.464 --> 00:23:54.654
Yeah.
00:23:54.654 --> 00:24:00.555
I was just wondering if there was a tool out there, kind of like, you know, I'm thinking like Zagat's for restaurants, you know, or something back in the day.
00:24:00.585 --> 00:24:03.694
Now there's all kinds of stuff out there, but some of them are accurate.
00:24:03.694 --> 00:24:08.214
Some of them are like, magically, if you pay, you're at the top of the list.
00:24:08.214 --> 00:24:12.125
So that's why if you Is there a trusted source though?
00:24:12.634 --> 00:24:13.075
Yeah.
00:24:13.914 --> 00:24:18.035
Um, you know, like, Google reviews are probably the most trusted source.
00:24:18.035 --> 00:24:22.694
I mean, there's other things out there, like Avvo, ABVO is another thing.
00:24:23.015 --> 00:24:24.525
Then there's Martindale.
00:24:25.105 --> 00:24:33.255
I mean, there's lots of different attorney directories out there, but like I said, you're probably, if you can get a referral, that's probably going to be your best result.
00:24:34.059 --> 00:24:34.470
Gotcha.
00:24:36.029 --> 00:24:36.430
Okay.
00:24:37.490 --> 00:25:02.130
Um, what else is, is there anything I'm missing that, you know, our listeners should know if they're starting a business or, or have a business, uh, if they, if they've already gone down the path, actually, uh, you know, started a business, they've been in business for a year, they're not really in trouble, but they maybe now have the resources to, you know, to justify a lawyer, um, and to themselves.
00:25:02.130 --> 00:25:07.259
And, you know, is that, is that a good time to bring one into and just review and set everything up right at that point, or?
00:25:07.744 --> 00:25:08.144
Yeah.
00:25:08.224 --> 00:25:11.595
I mean, it's always, anytime's a good time to bring in your business lawyer.
00:25:11.674 --> 00:25:14.115
So if you already started up and you're doing stuff.
00:25:14.694 --> 00:25:33.474
Yeah, have a business lawyer come in and audit all your documents and look over everything and go over, you know, your articles in the corporation, your bylaws, your vendor contracts, your lease, all that stuff, and just go through everything and make sure it's okay because we can, you know, sometimes we can fix it while it's in place.
00:25:33.474 --> 00:25:36.674
So it can be done or we can avoid future issues.
00:25:36.674 --> 00:25:37.144
So, yeah.
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:48.329
You know, just have the attorney come in and conduct an audit on your documents and then go over your business systems and your practices and, you know, separate, you know, question and answer session.
00:25:48.339 --> 00:25:49.750
Just go over as much as you can.
00:25:50.470 --> 00:25:51.329
Okay, good.
00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:55.289
You know, um, one, one other question just thought of.
00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:58.660
AI is a big topic nowadays, right?
00:25:58.660 --> 00:26:00.779
It's disrupting the world, really.
00:26:01.109 --> 00:26:06.779
And one of the areas I think I hear that it's disrupting the most is in the legal field, right?
00:26:06.789 --> 00:26:10.779
Now people are just having chat GPT write up their legal documents for them.
00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:17.990
Um, how, uh, how is that comparing to some of the just getting on Google and doing forms?
00:26:17.990 --> 00:26:25.210
Is it the same, you know, is your response the same as the previous one on that or, and also how is it changing?
00:26:26.115 --> 00:26:26.714
The law for you?
00:26:26.714 --> 00:26:30.295
Are you using it in any way as a tool or, yeah.
00:26:30.384 --> 00:26:30.805
Yeah.
00:26:30.805 --> 00:26:32.694
AI is an interesting topic.
00:26:32.724 --> 00:26:35.065
I am heavy into ai.
00:26:35.394 --> 00:26:37.315
I use a lot of AI in what I do.
00:26:37.315 --> 00:26:48.355
I have two different specific programs that I use that help me do my job and make me a lot more efficient and a lot more, um, refined.
00:26:48.954 --> 00:26:55.164
But the ai, you know, it's applicable in most.
00:26:56.325 --> 00:26:58.115
Industries now you can use AI for anything.
00:26:58.924 --> 00:27:07.444
So the main thing is you have to, no matter what industry you're in or whatever, you have to responsibly use AI.
00:27:07.454 --> 00:27:24.954
You can't just blindly use it and have it go do whatever you have to, you know, put a level of control over it and make sure that ultimately the final product has your review and your approval on it.
00:27:24.974 --> 00:27:27.295
So for instance, like drafting legal documents.
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:48.700
So there's few, I don't know, probably about almost a year ago, there's a big story coming out of federal court in New York City, where this guy who's an attorney went on to chat GPT and basically fed it.
00:27:49.079 --> 00:28:03.829
A, uh, some pleadings, and it had it draft, like, I think a response to emotion or something, and he put in, like, the prompts of, like, you know, he didn't put in great prompts, which I'll get to prompts in a second, but he didn't put in great prompts.
00:28:04.589 --> 00:28:11.569
And he just kind of was like, Hey, write a response to this motion and me, you know, whatever banner.
00:28:12.099 --> 00:28:18.539
So the AI wrote a response to the motion, and then this guy literally just hit print and sent it right to the court.
00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:19.440
He didn't review it.
00:28:19.470 --> 00:28:20.470
He didn't do anything.
00:28:21.009 --> 00:28:22.420
He just took it and followed it.
00:28:23.170 --> 00:28:35.519
And it turns out that all the precedent and all the cases and everything that this motion cited were hallucinations by the AI that were made up and don't actually exist.
00:28:36.849 --> 00:28:42.230
So it was all, all of these cases were totally fabricated and didn't really exist.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:48.630
So this guy got pulled before a federal judge and was, I figured he was sanctioned.
00:28:48.650 --> 00:28:57.650
I think he was saying he was spined and he got in trouble because he essentially just took the AI, had to do his homework and just send it straight to the judge.
00:28:57.650 --> 00:28:58.910
And it was a disaster.
00:28:58.910 --> 00:29:03.200
Now, alternatively, the guy could have.
00:29:04.265 --> 00:29:08.085
First of all, put in prompts that would have restricted it.
00:29:08.565 --> 00:29:14.964
And again, AI is all about the prompts and any industry and anything you're doing AI for, it's all about the prompts.
00:29:14.994 --> 00:29:21.934
There's websites, there's YouTube videos, there's apps, there's everything devoted to the prompts.
00:29:22.325 --> 00:29:28.765
So you have to put in the correct information, no matter what you're trying to get done in AI in order to get the correct information out.
00:29:29.305 --> 00:29:39.505
So this guy could have put in the correct prompts and everything and put guardrails up as far as, you know, use only real cases, uh, you know, things like that.
00:29:40.224 --> 00:29:48.555
And whatever the AI generated, this guy would have just edited it and checked all the citations, make sure that they're real.
00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:51.230
And if they're not real, go find real ones.
00:29:51.690 --> 00:29:54.619
And he would have been okay, but he didn't do that.
00:29:54.619 --> 00:30:02.559
And that's the moral of the story for using AI is you can use AI to do a lot of things in a lot of different businesses.
00:30:02.849 --> 00:30:14.650
You just ultimately have to make sure that you're in control at the end and that whatever product you put out into the world, you've reviewed it, you've edited it, you've checked it so that it's correct.
00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:16.849
And it's not just whatever AI says, because.
00:30:17.414 --> 00:30:22.454
Just like the regular internet will always give you the right answer, but it's also you're doing the wrong answer.
00:30:22.454 --> 00:30:39.464
So we'll AI better at giving you the right answer, but AI also will hallucinate or hallucinate certain things or hallucinate certain things and give you the wrong answer just because it wants to make you happy and give you an answer that you're looking for.
00:30:39.894 --> 00:30:46.615
And you have to make sure that you edit that out of whatever documents you're creating or whatever work product you're creating.
00:30:47.025 --> 00:30:48.444
So AI is important.
00:30:48.505 --> 00:30:50.484
I mean, everyone should be using AI.
00:30:51.069 --> 00:31:02.970
Because, you know, I don't want to say it's the way of the future, but I mean, everything's going to AI, but you got to make sure that ultimately you're in charge of the AI and you just don't use it as a replacement for your own work product.
00:31:03.009 --> 00:31:05.309
You use it as an enhancement for your work product.
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:07.410
Okay.
00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:08.680
That's interesting.
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:09.549
I didn't know that case.
00:31:09.549 --> 00:31:10.589
That's, that's wild.
00:31:11.569 --> 00:31:12.930
Um, yeah.
00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:19.640
I mean, it's an impressive technology, but still got to trust, but verify at the end of the day is what it sounds like.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:21.400
No, that's true.
00:31:21.954 --> 00:31:22.244
Yeah.
00:31:22.755 --> 00:31:22.994
Great.
00:31:22.994 --> 00:31:30.105
Matt, is there anything else you want to leave with our listeners, uh, for, for legal advice if, if they're business owners and want to get started?
00:31:30.545 --> 00:31:30.964
Yeah.
00:31:30.984 --> 00:31:31.994
So we haven't discussed.
00:31:32.694 --> 00:31:32.904
Yeah.
00:31:32.904 --> 00:31:48.164
One of the main things is that, you know, when you start out or even after you start, if you didn't already do it, you need to have a written business plan for your business in addition to your governing documents or contracts or whatever, because the written business plan is your roadmap.
00:31:49.055 --> 00:31:50.644
To how you're going to do your business.
00:31:50.644 --> 00:32:00.914
And also, it's also a requirement for if you're going to get a bank account, if you're going to do certain things, you have to show them like a written business plan in order to actually qualify to do things.
00:32:00.914 --> 00:32:02.694
If you're going to get certain loans or whatever.
00:32:03.164 --> 00:32:16.690
So, 1 of the things that I see that's missing from businesses, in addition to the other documents you've described is a written business plan, which I recommend every business implement because they are very useful no matter what.
00:32:17.500 --> 00:32:20.309
Part of the life cycle you're in for your business.
00:32:21.099 --> 00:32:21.440
Yeah.
00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:21.990
Yeah.
00:32:21.990 --> 00:32:22.369
Good point.
00:32:22.984 --> 00:32:27.234
I mean, it really helps you think through when you're writing a business plan anyways.
00:32:27.234 --> 00:32:29.914
And it's probably something you should update every few years as well, right?
00:32:29.924 --> 00:32:29.944
Yeah.
00:32:30.224 --> 00:32:42.454
No, it's a, it's, you know, I don't want to say it's a living document because it's kind of a cliche, but it is constantly keep updating it as you go on and your goals change and your, uh, what you've achieved change.
00:32:42.464 --> 00:32:44.115
So you always want to keep it up to date.
00:32:45.484 --> 00:32:45.894
Very good.
00:32:46.494 --> 00:32:47.644
Well, thank you for that, Matthew.
00:32:48.535 --> 00:32:53.535
So Matthew, I think at this point, we're going to jump into our world famous Wayfinder 4.
00:32:54.365 --> 00:32:54.954
Are you ready?
00:32:55.535 --> 00:32:56.085
I'm ready.
00:32:56.724 --> 00:32:57.105
All right.
00:32:57.125 --> 00:33:06.355
Give us a hack that you use, something you use every day that, you know, kind of help make your life easier.
00:33:06.434 --> 00:33:07.515
We just discussed it.
00:33:07.515 --> 00:33:08.505
Chat GPT 4.
00:33:08.555 --> 00:33:09.125
0.
00:33:09.664 --> 00:33:10.035
Okay.
00:33:10.984 --> 00:33:11.505
AI.
00:33:11.585 --> 00:33:13.085
Like I said, do it responsibly.
00:33:13.085 --> 00:33:13.615
It's great.
00:33:13.634 --> 00:33:14.855
Do it unresponsibly.
00:33:14.855 --> 00:33:16.335
You're going to run into disaster.
00:33:17.154 --> 00:33:17.704
Sounds good.
00:33:18.345 --> 00:33:30.535
I just read an article this morning, I think, about, uh, Um, uh, open AI is it that is, uh, releasing search GPT, which is going to directly compete with Google now.
00:33:30.714 --> 00:33:30.944
Yeah.
00:33:31.154 --> 00:33:31.404
Yeah.
00:33:31.944 --> 00:33:32.654
Which is interesting.
00:33:33.565 --> 00:33:34.634
How about a favorite?
00:33:36.105 --> 00:33:41.515
Could be a book, activity, uh, movie, whatever.
00:33:41.545 --> 00:33:48.845
You know, favorite thing that I just launched, cause I was, In the late 90s early 2000s.
00:33:48.954 --> 00:34:10.335
I was way Into pop music like way way into pop music and there's another music, but they just released a uh, A three part documentary on netflix called dirty pop which is all about the rise and fall of lou perlman Who is the empresario behind the backstreet boys and sync and other?
00:34:10.704 --> 00:34:14.355
musical pictures so um It's pretty entertaining.
00:34:14.505 --> 00:34:16.505
Um, it's pretty informative.
00:34:16.514 --> 00:34:18.554
It's a very interesting story about the guy.
00:34:18.565 --> 00:34:25.715
The guy was, the guy, in addition to did all that stuff, coincidentally ran the longest running Ponzi scheme in American history at the same time.
00:34:26.724 --> 00:34:29.454
So it's very like Jekyll and Hyde kind of thing.
00:34:29.454 --> 00:34:30.155
It's pretty good.
00:34:30.155 --> 00:34:30.815
So I'd recommend it.
00:34:31.164 --> 00:34:31.715
Dirty pop.
00:34:31.715 --> 00:34:32.664
Is that on Netflix?
00:34:33.074 --> 00:34:33.954
It's on Netflix.
00:34:33.954 --> 00:34:34.784
It's called dirty pop.
00:34:34.784 --> 00:34:38.494
It just came out a few days ago, but I was, I was waiting for it to come out a long time.
00:34:38.594 --> 00:34:39.355
So, Oh, cool.
00:34:39.355 --> 00:34:39.894
I'll check it out.
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.119
Thank you.
00:34:41.150 --> 00:34:44.260
What about a piece of advice for a younger self?
00:34:45.829 --> 00:34:51.800
A piece of advice from a younger self would be have fun and believe in yourself at all times.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.599
And don't let self doubt or other doubt creep into your mind.
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:00.980
Just always be focused on self belief.
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:02.170
Love it.
00:35:02.619 --> 00:35:05.230
What do you do for fun, since you say you have fun?
00:35:06.150 --> 00:35:08.420
Can't imagine, it's practicing law.
00:35:08.420 --> 00:35:11.250
Yeah, practicing law, believe it or not, is not fun.
00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:19.789
Um, you know, I do a lot, I have a 16 year old and a 12 year old, so I do a lot of stuff with my kids.
00:35:19.929 --> 00:35:20.260
Yeah.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.530
And, uh, you know, you know, I'm just a guy.
00:35:23.539 --> 00:35:30.800
I like sports, I like watching sports, I like golf, which I never thought I would be, but I got into golf recently.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:31.539
Okay.
00:35:31.570 --> 00:35:33.289
And just doing stuff with my family.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:34.190
I love it.
00:35:35.989 --> 00:35:36.250
Great.
00:35:36.250 --> 00:35:38.579
What about a big opportunity you see out there right now?
00:35:40.150 --> 00:36:09.530
I think a big opportunity that's out there is, you know, I'm going to go back to the AI thing, it's AI to use it, to make your, not just work life, but entire life easier, but you got to make sure, like I said, that you're in charge at the end of the day and you're accountable for everything, but if you're a responsible AI, No matter who you are, what you're doing, in some way, AI is going to make your life a lot easier.
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:17.619
You just have to make sure that you are responsible for it and that you, uh, you're in control of it.
00:36:17.619 --> 00:36:20.170
And no matter what you're doing, it's going to make your life easier in some way.
00:36:21.769 --> 00:36:22.119
Thank you.
00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:30.400
Is, uh, if people want to know any more about you, they want to get a hold of you, if they need a good lawyer out in South Florida, uh, how can they reach you?
00:36:31.594 --> 00:36:35.385
Sure, so the easiest way to reach me is to go to my website for narrow legal.
00:36:35.664 --> 00:36:37.664
com, which is just my last name legal.
00:36:37.914 --> 00:36:52.519
com and that has all my links to, you know, my phone number, my email address, all my social media, um, My how to videos, my white papers, my blog stuff.
00:36:52.519 --> 00:37:00.570
So if you have a question, I have enough material on there that it should answer a lot of initial questions that people have about business law.
00:37:00.929 --> 00:37:02.920
So answer will be on there.
00:37:02.929 --> 00:37:03.679
If not, just.
00:37:03.954 --> 00:37:05.045
Email me or call me.
00:37:05.804 --> 00:37:06.204
Excellent.
00:37:06.264 --> 00:37:13.045
If, if we're not in Florida and we want to get a hold of you, can you, can we call you anyways and would you be able to refer us to the right person?
00:37:13.284 --> 00:37:14.074
Yeah, I can help you.
00:37:14.074 --> 00:37:17.684
And if I can't help you, I know to refer you to someone who can help you where you are.
00:37:18.235 --> 00:37:18.625
Excellent.
00:37:18.635 --> 00:37:19.025
Thank you.
00:37:19.985 --> 00:37:22.045
Well, Matthew, uh, thanks for being on the show.
00:37:22.045 --> 00:37:29.994
I think this is a lot of our, uh, Our listeners are entrepreneurs and, or, or want to be entrepreneurs, or about to become entrepreneurs.
00:37:30.005 --> 00:37:38.014
So I think, uh, the legal We hope you've enjoyed The Wayfinder Show.
00:37:38.164 --> 00:37:42.385
If you got value from this episode, please take a few seconds to leave us a 5 star rating and review.
00:37:42.675 --> 00:37:46.925
This will allow us to help more people find their way to live more authentic and exciting lives.
00:37:47.585 --> 00:37:48.885
We'll catch you on the next episode.
00:37:58.364 --> 00:38:05.114
aspect is, uh, as I've learned is, is something we need to consider and, uh, we should be considering it early on.
00:38:05.114 --> 00:38:08.875
So this has been great that you've been here to share some of your wisdom with us.
00:38:09.364 --> 00:38:10.585
Yeah, no, I appreciate it, Louis.
00:38:10.585 --> 00:38:11.534
Thanks for having me on.
00:38:11.954 --> 00:38:12.164
Yeah.
00:38:12.304 --> 00:38:12.715
Thank you.
00:00:00.010 --> 00:00:03.180
Anyone can sue anyone at any time for anything.
00:00:03.689 --> 00:00:11.689
So lawsuits are always a possibility, no matter what business you're in or what area of business you're in, what level of business you're on or whatever.
00:00:11.689 --> 00:00:13.230
I mean, it's just part of reality.
00:00:13.230 --> 00:00:18.570
That is, at some point, if you're in business, you're going to probably encounter a lawsuit in some way.
00:00:29.019 --> 00:00:40.420
Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.
00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:49.399
Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.
00:00:50.689 --> 00:01:03.920
Come join us and find the way to your dream life.\ Welcome back to the Wayfinder show.
00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:05.989
I am your host, Louis Hernandez.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:09.189
And today I'm here with Matthew Fornaro.
00:01:09.750 --> 00:01:17.090
Matthew has been a law attorney serving South Florida, including Corral Springs and Parkland since 2003.
00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:25.670
Before starting his law firm, he was an attorney at two prestigious Amlaw 200 law firms where he focused on civil litigation.
00:01:26.805 --> 00:01:31.784
Today, Matthew practices complex commercial litigation, including contract disputes.
00:01:32.234 --> 00:01:37.025
He's also a member of the Florida Bar and the District of Columbia Bar.
00:01:37.594 --> 00:01:52.495
He also practices construction law, intellectual property law, homeowner and condominium association representation, and he drafts and revises business documents, including the formation of business organizations.
00:01:53.415 --> 00:01:55.734
So with that, Matthew, welcome to the show.
00:01:56.379 --> 00:01:57.420
Thank you for having me, Larry.
00:01:57.420 --> 00:01:58.049
Glad to be here.
00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:00.349
Yeah, I'm glad to have you here, too.
00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:10.789
I'm kind of looking at this as an opportunity to get a really experienced, smart lawyer here and ask him for some free business, uh, law advice, which I don't get very often, so.
00:02:11.669 --> 00:02:12.680
It happens all the time.
00:02:12.930 --> 00:02:13.750
I'm glad to do it.
00:02:14.009 --> 00:02:14.340
Yeah.
00:02:14.340 --> 00:02:14.819
Thank you.
00:02:15.250 --> 00:02:18.719
So before we get into that though, Matthew, tell us a little bit about yourself.
00:02:18.770 --> 00:02:24.550
Well, you know, I'm my, uh, as we were discussing before we started, I'm almost a Florida native.
00:02:24.550 --> 00:02:26.210
I've been here since I was six years old.
00:02:27.180 --> 00:02:29.949
So I kind of knew growing up, I wanted to be an attorney.
00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:32.759
I liked watching like the people's court and cool things like that.
00:02:32.819 --> 00:02:37.539
So I went to undergrad and I took political science to set up for law school.
00:02:37.539 --> 00:02:38.479
I went to law school.
00:02:38.490 --> 00:02:40.180
When I came out, I worked.
00:02:40.705 --> 00:02:44.365
Among other places, a two big am law, 200 law firms.
00:02:44.724 --> 00:03:00.564
And I decided after a while that I wanted to kind of, uh, go out and do my own thing and focus on helping small and medium sized businesses because my dad was a small business owner and I saw the issues that he had, and I didn't really think that that was.
00:03:01.134 --> 00:03:05.074
Being served by uh, our legal community.
00:03:05.074 --> 00:03:06.814
So that's what my focus has been.
00:03:06.844 --> 00:03:10.254
I did that about nine years ago and I've been doing that ever since.
00:03:10.884 --> 00:03:11.235
Neat.
00:03:11.604 --> 00:03:15.064
So what, what do you see as the differences when you were doing civil litigation?
00:03:15.064 --> 00:03:18.914
Was that primarily for big corporations, I'm assuming, or insurance companies?
00:03:19.414 --> 00:03:21.485
Yeah, it was for big corporations.
00:03:21.784 --> 00:03:22.175
Yeah.
00:03:22.235 --> 00:03:28.335
And so what, what did you see as the differences, um, between that and the small business?
00:03:29.270 --> 00:03:48.530
You know, the, the focus on understanding your client as far as a small business versus a big corporation, I think what isn't there a lot in that when you represent a big business or a big corporation or a bank or an insurance company.
00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:54.080
I mean, you have essentially, even though, you know, you got to be responsible to your stuff.
00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:59.819
You have an unlimited war chest, and you can have a winner take all mentality.
00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:20.045
When you represent a small business, you have to be cognizant of the business's needs, the business's cash flow, what they can afford to do, what they can't afford to do, and how And I'll see You know, there's different levels of solutions and different types of solutions for a small business that maybe aren't there for a large business.
00:04:21.545 --> 00:04:36.995
Yeah, like, do, do you find, um, you know, I'm wondering as a small business person most of my life, like I, I don't, I've often, you know, used, go, go on Google forms, Google legal forms, right.
00:04:37.235 --> 00:04:38.855
And use those to get started.
00:04:38.855 --> 00:04:39.185
Right.
00:04:39.714 --> 00:04:40.725
I'm not saying it's right.
00:04:40.875 --> 00:04:48.704
I'm not saying I do that now saying I have done it and uh, and I, I would assume that a big corporation is not going to do that, right?
00:04:48.704 --> 00:04:53.454
They're going to give you a call right from the beginning, make sure everything's done right and tidied up my right.
00:04:53.865 --> 00:04:54.584
That is correct.
00:04:54.644 --> 00:04:55.214
Yes.
00:04:56.214 --> 00:04:56.444
Yeah.
00:04:56.444 --> 00:05:36.339
So, so what, um, so with that in mind, what are the troubles that you see small business owners get themselves into because they probably didn't hire a lawyer right from the get go Yeah, you know, a lot of small and medium sized business legal problems are completely avoidable and it goes with the fact that as a small business, you know, people think of lawyers, accountants, bankers, whatever, as a luxury instead of a necessity and as a singular thing instead of a team.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:41.550
And the real approach that a smaller, medium sized business should take.
00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:47.100
Is that when they're planning their business, obviously, you'd like to have a written business plan.
00:05:47.170 --> 00:05:48.279
That's a necessity.
00:05:48.600 --> 00:06:05.759
But when you're putting your business together, you want to make sure that you have a cadre of professionals that you can rely on that will help you so that you can focus on your business and they can take all the collateral decisions and issues away from you and not you don't have to worry about it.
00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:06.879
And that's why you want to have.
00:06:07.754 --> 00:06:11.485
You know, a business law attorney, an accountant, a banker, like an I.
00:06:11.504 --> 00:06:11.735
T.
00:06:11.735 --> 00:06:16.704
person, you know, that kind of thing at your disposal is part of a team to help you out.
00:06:16.735 --> 00:06:29.285
Because a lot of times when businesses start out, they only think about attorneys as a reactive solution to a problem that pops up instead of a proactive solution for avoiding issues.
00:06:29.295 --> 00:06:34.995
So, like, for instance, if you're just talking about going on Google to convert documents, that's.
00:06:36.564 --> 00:06:46.805
Okay, but the issue with going on the Internet looking for stuff is that 100 percent the right answer is on the Internet to any question.
00:06:47.115 --> 00:06:52.035
However, 100 percent at the same time, the wrong answer is on the Internet to any question.
00:06:52.514 --> 00:06:56.845
And if you don't have training and you don't know what's going on, you don't know what's right and what's wrong.
00:06:57.264 --> 00:06:58.394
And that's why.
00:06:58.754 --> 00:07:04.404
When you start a business, you want to make sure if you're a corporation, that you have bylaws, that you have articles of incorporation.
00:07:04.444 --> 00:07:06.985
If you're an LLC, that you have an operating agreement.
00:07:07.454 --> 00:07:14.764
And that it's specifically tailored to your business and is basically the road map of how your business operates.
00:07:14.764 --> 00:07:21.605
It says what your business does and doesn't do, how it resolves issues, who does what, who owns what, who pays what, et cetera.
00:07:22.014 --> 00:07:26.084
And if you're just going on the internet looking for stuff, you're going to run into problems.
00:07:26.084 --> 00:07:26.944
Like, for instance.
00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:47.500
I had a client who runs a dog training business and it's pretty successful and he came to me, obviously, after he started this business and he had an issue with an employee and he had an employment contract and his company is located in Fort Lauderdale and he pulled this employment contract off the Internet.
00:07:48.225 --> 00:08:00.024
And the employment contract says that it's governed by Wisconsin law, and that Wisconsin law will apply the venue is Wisconsin, all this crazy language.
00:08:00.024 --> 00:08:03.954
It's totally wrong that he didn't pick up on when he had his employee sign this.
00:08:03.954 --> 00:08:15.495
And so this employee went out and started her own business, rivaling his, took his customer list, literally went down the customer list, called everyone up and said, come over to me, not to him anymore.
00:08:16.055 --> 00:08:29.685
And so when we filed our lawsuit, I mean, I told him this is going to be an issue that you have this Wisconsin language in there and it turned out when, you know, we've served the defendant and the defendant had their attorney come in.
00:08:29.685 --> 00:08:41.254
It was a huge issue because Florida is a very pro, um, business owner, business state in a very weak labor state in Wisconsin apparently is a very.
00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:45.360
Powerful or very labor oriented state.
00:08:45.860 --> 00:08:47.559
So the laws are totally different.
00:08:47.570 --> 00:08:52.740
So what would have been a slam dunk case in Florida was a disastrous.
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It wasn't a disastrous case, I would say, because we settled it, and it was a pretty good settlement, but it could have been disastrous based on him doing a Google search as opposed to going to an attorney and getting a contract written off to begin with.
00:09:04.779 --> 00:09:06.480
Yeah, yeah, good point.
00:09:07.100 --> 00:09:17.695
What about for those folks who, Um, you know, they, they're, they're a bootstrap startup and they like to do research themselves and whatnot.
00:09:17.705 --> 00:09:27.654
Do you, do you think there's a way of, of working together, allowing them to go ahead and do some of that research and save some funds that way, but still bring you in?
00:09:27.965 --> 00:09:29.544
And if so, what is the right way?
00:09:29.634 --> 00:09:32.125
You know, what is a good way of approaching that?
00:09:32.674 --> 00:09:38.034
You know, my advice to any business owners, you want to get a business law attorney, right?
00:09:38.424 --> 00:09:44.154
Involved in your business as soon as possible, preferably before you even start your business.
00:09:44.684 --> 00:09:49.004
And if you started your business, bring him, I mean, bring him in as quickly as you can.
00:09:49.034 --> 00:09:50.315
You have to budget for it.
00:09:50.325 --> 00:09:52.595
Just like you budget for an accountant and things like that.
00:09:53.044 --> 00:09:54.544
Because they're going to help you out.
00:09:54.985 --> 00:10:12.434
Um, obviously, you know, my advice to my clients is if they try to do their own self help and they try to find documents and they try to cut corners or whatever, that is going to turn out very poorly for them in the long run because the documents are just not going to cut it.
00:10:13.289 --> 00:10:20.240
Even if they're decent documents, they're not going to cut it under the law and you're going to run into a situation where you're going to wish you had good documents.
00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:24.080
So I kind of discouraged my clients from doing that.
00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:31.409
I, you know, I mean, I'd much rather them have something done by an attorney if they can't afford an attorney.
00:10:31.409 --> 00:10:34.350
I mean, they can go to like, you know, just don't do it yourself.
00:10:34.350 --> 00:10:42.110
Go to legal zoom, which, you know, or a document preparation service like that, if you can't afford an attorney, but definitely don't do it yourself.
00:10:42.889 --> 00:10:43.250
Okay.
00:10:44.085 --> 00:10:50.835
Uh, you've mentioned accountants a couple times and even the whole, uh, team that some, you know, small business person should have.
00:10:51.554 --> 00:10:59.504
I've, uh, in my experience, I, you know, I have a lawyer and I have an accountant and oftentimes they advise me, uh, very differently, right?
00:10:59.504 --> 00:11:07.075
One kind of it seems to advise me for risk mitigation, uh, being a lawyer and a tax, uh, person.
00:11:07.184 --> 00:11:11.735
You know, the accountant tends to advise me based on what's going to be most advantageous for my taxes.
00:11:12.774 --> 00:11:15.674
Um, I'm sure you run into this quite a bit, right?
00:11:15.695 --> 00:11:18.965
How do you, from your side, your perspective, how do you deal with it?
00:11:19.315 --> 00:11:23.865
Yeah, I deal with that issue a lot because obviously I work with a lot of accountants for my clients.
00:11:23.865 --> 00:11:26.955
And what I generally do is I defer to the accountant.
00:11:27.434 --> 00:11:30.335
You know, I don't go out there and say, I'm right.
00:11:30.345 --> 00:11:35.125
It's my way, you know, I work with the accountant and I'm like, look.
00:11:35.794 --> 00:11:48.394
We can do things for your business a lot of ways legally, like we can have different business organizations, we can have different contracts in place, you know, different, um, whatever you want in place.
00:11:48.445 --> 00:11:56.985
However, there's only so many economic slash money ways we can do things from an accounting perspective.
00:11:57.674 --> 00:12:03.434
So if you screw up legally, for lack of a better term, we can always go fix it.
00:12:03.794 --> 00:12:07.235
For the most part, we can change you from a corporation to an LLC.
00:12:07.830 --> 00:12:09.909
We can put in a different operating agreement.
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:11.809
We can change your vendor contract.
00:12:11.850 --> 00:12:17.299
We can do whatever if we Don't do things correctly from an accounting standpoint.
00:12:17.330 --> 00:12:25.605
It's very hard to go back and fix that because you're gonna get killed on your taxes You're gonna, you know, and you're not gonna be able to recover that.
00:12:25.615 --> 00:12:33.575
So when I work with accountants, I always defer to them and be like, look, if possible, what's best economically for the client.
00:12:33.674 --> 00:12:36.205
And then I'll go make it work from the legal perspective.
00:12:36.504 --> 00:12:38.205
And that's certainly how I deal with accountants.
00:12:39.575 --> 00:12:40.225
That's great.
00:12:40.375 --> 00:12:49.075
Yeah, honestly, uh, I've known a lot of lawyers and worked with a lot of lawyers, and that's the first time I hear that as a perspective.
00:12:49.075 --> 00:12:53.264
So I, uh, gosh, I wish I was in, in your part of Florida.
00:12:53.605 --> 00:12:54.184
Yeah.
00:12:54.225 --> 00:12:55.835
No, I mean, that's, it's the truth.
00:12:55.894 --> 00:12:56.375
I mean, look.
00:12:57.264 --> 00:13:00.014
Um, we can do a lot of things from the legal perspective.
00:13:00.065 --> 00:13:05.504
There's not a lot of things you can do from the accounting perspective as far as fixing things and doing stuff properly.
00:13:05.774 --> 00:13:06.034
Sure.
00:13:06.044 --> 00:13:13.794
And like I said, if you screw up on the accounting side, you're done and there's no way you can go back and fix it because you're not going to get money you paid to the IRS back.
00:13:14.095 --> 00:13:14.335
Right.
00:13:14.335 --> 00:13:17.774
You're not going to get another second bite of the apple, but legally you can, so.
00:13:18.095 --> 00:13:18.434
Yeah.
00:13:19.345 --> 00:13:26.044
What are some of the most common legal issues that you're seeing out there for small business owners nowadays?
00:13:26.044 --> 00:13:26.065
Okay.
00:13:26.514 --> 00:13:40.215
You know, it's a little bit about what we talked about, you know, not having the right documents in place and then it comes back and bites them because you get a dispute with someone you're in business with and then you don't know how to resolve it because you don't have.
00:13:40.845 --> 00:13:43.855
Bylaws, you don't have an operating agreement, so you got to go.
00:13:44.325 --> 00:13:48.345
So, whatever the statute say, which is never a good solution.
00:13:48.735 --> 00:13:54.164
So you get a lot of internal business fighting, you get a lot of issues because they don't have their documents.
00:13:54.804 --> 00:14:02.815
You get the usual people owe you money, you owe people money, you know, you have issues with your employees, things like that.
00:14:02.815 --> 00:14:11.095
It's pretty, I don't want to say run of the mill, but most of the issues you face come down to like maybe four or five areas and those are them.
00:14:13.054 --> 00:14:13.445
Okay.
00:14:14.455 --> 00:14:23.205
Um, what about when somebody does, do you, do you do litigation still at all?
00:14:23.674 --> 00:14:23.955
Yeah.
00:14:24.225 --> 00:14:24.634
Yes.
00:14:25.115 --> 00:14:25.475
Okay.
00:14:25.585 --> 00:14:31.764
So what do you think a good way to react to a lawsuit is?
00:14:31.774 --> 00:14:32.955
Like, how do you approach that?
00:14:34.174 --> 00:14:38.095
Well, obviously, first, you got to take it definitely seriously.
00:14:38.715 --> 00:14:43.875
I know a lot of people who just get a lawsuit and they're like, Oh, let me throw it to the side or whatever.
00:14:44.065 --> 00:14:49.174
I mean, you know, you got to take it very, I mean, that's your whole livelihood at stake.
00:14:49.394 --> 00:14:51.164
So you got to take every lawsuit seriously.
00:14:51.164 --> 00:15:03.379
That's my first piece of advice to anyone is never No matter how frivolous or how stupid a lawsuit is, you always got to take it seriously because it can always result in catastrophic consequences.
00:15:03.379 --> 00:15:08.960
No matter how dumb it is, how poorly played it is, how, um, frivolous it is.
00:15:08.970 --> 00:15:10.379
So take it seriously.
00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:24.919
The other thing I say is when you get sued, You know, obviously you want to reach out to your attorney as soon as possible so that they can have as many solutions as possible to address the lawsuit.
00:15:25.549 --> 00:15:34.649
So, for instance, depending on what industry you're in and what the lawsuit's about, a lot of these lawsuits are covered by your various insurances.
00:15:35.330 --> 00:15:40.830
So that's why, you know, just because you're sued doesn't mean you're coming out of pocket to pay for the defense.
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:45.919
It could be covered by your, you know, your business insurance, your liability insurance.
00:15:46.445 --> 00:15:50.225
Um, you know, your auto insurance, depending on what it is.
00:15:50.235 --> 00:15:52.355
So there's lots of different insurance in there.
00:15:52.355 --> 00:15:57.894
So I always say, check for insurance coverage on whatever the lawsuit is.
00:15:57.934 --> 00:16:01.544
And then if they pick it up, great, and they'll defend you.
00:16:02.004 --> 00:16:04.815
And it's out of your hands, you don't have to worry about paying your attorney.
00:16:05.294 --> 00:16:10.065
If they don't pick it up, you want to make sure that they tell you that they're not going to cover your lawsuit.
00:16:10.065 --> 00:16:13.894
So then you don't go back later on after you go through a full.
00:16:13.894 --> 00:16:14.014
Okay.
00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:20.600
Lawsuit all the litigation and stuff would be like, oh, I could have had the company cover that because they're not going to cover it at that point.
00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:22.629
So that's 1 of the other things I say is all.
00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:28.220
Always presented to your various insurance companies to see if there's any coverage there before you give up.
00:16:28.740 --> 00:16:32.220
And then, let's say, there's no insurance coverage, and you got to go take care of it.
00:16:32.549 --> 00:16:38.710
You know, yourself, you know, hire an attorney who does.
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:43.820
In business case, business litigation, not just someone who's like.
00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:48.480
A personal injury attorney or a criminal law attorney or a family attorney who.
00:16:48.945 --> 00:16:50.455
You know, you met him at the beach.
00:16:50.465 --> 00:16:51.394
He's pretty cool.
00:16:51.544 --> 00:17:03.304
You want to retain his services or you met him at the, uh, pickleball court or whatever you want someone who focuses on the area that you're being sued in to, uh, represent you.
00:17:03.304 --> 00:17:10.125
So you want to make sure for business litigation, you have someone who's familiar with business litigation and then obviously.
00:17:11.214 --> 00:17:17.345
Once you have that in place, then you put together litigation strategy, discuss what you want to do.
00:17:17.375 --> 00:17:19.255
Like, are there merits to this claim?
00:17:19.255 --> 00:17:20.555
Are there no merits?
00:17:20.585 --> 00:17:22.305
What's your budget going to be?
00:17:22.355 --> 00:17:24.224
Do you want to try to settle the case?
00:17:24.224 --> 00:17:25.424
Do you want to settle soon?
00:17:25.444 --> 00:17:26.694
Do you want to settle later?
00:17:27.089 --> 00:17:28.549
Do you want to file a counterclaim?
00:17:28.569 --> 00:17:30.369
Do you have claims against them?
00:17:30.809 --> 00:17:36.281
And you put together a whole strategy and then you play out your strategy and that's essentially how you handle litigation.
00:17:36.281 --> 00:17:45.210
You know, um, I had a, a partner in a business that he, he had a different business as well.
00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:49.190
And he, uh, was going through a lawsuit.
00:17:50.345 --> 00:18:18.474
And, uh, you know, what was, he had the same attorney for many years, maybe 15, 20 years, he's older than me, and, and he, uh, got sued, and it was gonna go to court, and he, he's done very well, and he's rarely ever have to go to court, but, uh, with this attorney, He was not willing to litigate and I just remember that moment where he was just furious that he had to go and find a new attorney and such.
00:18:18.474 --> 00:18:27.884
So, uh, since that, that always stuck with me to go make sure that whatever attorney you get, they, they're willing to go to court and go to fight for you.
00:18:27.894 --> 00:18:28.234
Right.
00:18:28.775 --> 00:18:29.065
Yeah.
00:18:29.785 --> 00:18:32.444
Because so many just want to settle nowadays.
00:18:32.484 --> 00:18:33.545
And sometimes.
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.200
That's not the right way to do it.
00:18:36.230 --> 00:18:37.430
Like, you know.
00:18:37.829 --> 00:18:38.039
No.
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:42.269
And as part of, you know, representing businesses, I know my limits.
00:18:42.309 --> 00:18:43.670
I don't try to handle everything.
00:18:43.670 --> 00:18:52.500
I bring in other attorneys to help with various areas when we encounter them representing you as part of your business lifecycle.
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:57.970
So if there's like an employment issue, I will bring in an attorney who focuses solely on employment law.
00:18:58.335 --> 00:19:04.244
So that you get the best information so you can make the best business decisions and we get the best results possible.
00:19:04.244 --> 00:19:07.464
I'm not going to, even though I know about employment law, I'm not going to do that myself.
00:19:07.464 --> 00:19:10.545
I'm going to bring in someone just like intellectual property law.
00:19:10.545 --> 00:19:16.055
I'm going to bring in someone who focuses on that so that we can get the best result for you.
00:19:16.055 --> 00:19:20.150
And that way you can focus on your business and a lot of, you know, people.
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:31.599
I would like to think attorneys think that way, but a lot of attorneys don't and they try to take on more than they can and they go outside their wheelhouse That's right.
00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:48.880
You know, um, I'm wondering if there's certain segments we hear, I'm in real estate and you'll, oh, every course we ever take, you know, for continuing ed and all that say, this is what gets you sued and makes us, it instills this fear that we're always going to get sued all the time.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:49.849
And I wonder.
00:19:50.329 --> 00:20:00.690
Um, if there are if that's the case in like all industries if that's what's getting preached upon that, you know Be careful because I rarely I don't actually see a lot of lawsuits.
00:20:00.869 --> 00:20:09.400
I know I haven't had one in real estate world Well, you know anyone can sue anyone at any time for anything, right?
00:20:09.490 --> 00:20:17.730
So lawsuits are always a possibility no matter what Business, you're in, or what area of business you're in, what level of business you're on or whatever.
00:20:17.730 --> 00:20:20.450
I mean, it's just part of reality that is at some point.
00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:24.640
If you're in business, you're going to probably encounter a lawsuit in some way.
00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:28.859
So are there industries that are more volatile than others?
00:20:28.890 --> 00:20:29.700
Well, you know.
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.819
Any business or any industry can blow up at any time.
00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:35.480
It's totally subjective.
00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.269
Depends on what the situation is.
00:20:37.269 --> 00:20:40.400
But are there industries where there's a lot of litigation?
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:46.349
Yeah, real estate, particularly here where I am in Florida, the real estate litigation is huge.
00:20:47.305 --> 00:20:54.795
Both commercial and residential real estate because there's lots of transactions that take place.
00:20:54.795 --> 00:21:01.045
And when there's lots of transactions, there's lots of differences that arise during transactions and that leads to litigation.
00:21:01.545 --> 00:21:09.055
So, you know, real estate, huge area, um, regulated industries and other huge area.
00:21:09.055 --> 00:21:21.920
If you're in a highly regulated business where there's a lot of laws that you have to comply with, Versus just a, you know, run of the mill business, then yeah, another thing where there's plenty of opportunities for lawsuits to come about.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:28.589
So yeah, there's some areas where lawsuits are more likely, but generally speaking, it could happen at any time.
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:29.210
Sure.
00:21:29.829 --> 00:21:30.180
Of course.
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:31.000
Okay.
00:21:31.329 --> 00:21:48.220
How would you, if you were knowing what you know, um, if you were not a lawyer, how would But you know what, you know, and you are in a different region of the country and you had to find somebody like a Matt, Matthew Fornaro.
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:55.089
How would you go about finding you, you know, in other words, how do you find the best lawyer for your business?
00:21:55.430 --> 00:22:01.269
Well, generally speaking, you know, look, you can go online and look at Google reviews and everything.
00:22:01.940 --> 00:22:07.970
Google reviews are legitimate, they're not bots and they're not, you know, Patsy's put on there for whatever.
00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:09.890
I mean, that's always a good way.
00:22:09.970 --> 00:22:19.319
It's a 1st and last resort, but 1 of the best ways that you can find professionals, not just attorneys, but accountants and bankers and stuff is through referrals.
00:22:19.789 --> 00:22:21.079
So, for instance.
00:22:21.714 --> 00:22:23.204
You're in the real estate space.
00:22:23.204 --> 00:22:26.974
I'm assuming you probably know other people who are in the real estate space.
00:22:27.365 --> 00:22:29.775
So, you know, most of the time.
00:22:30.615 --> 00:22:38.255
Other business owners or other people are generally nice, you know, if you're nice to them, and if you ask them for advice, they'll give it to you.
00:22:38.734 --> 00:22:42.285
So, you know, you would ask someone if you're in the real estate space.
00:22:42.285 --> 00:22:42.464
Yeah.
00:22:42.464 --> 00:22:43.954
Someone else is in the real estate space.
00:22:44.345 --> 00:22:45.865
Hey, who is a good.
00:22:46.190 --> 00:23:04.849
Real estate attorney who is a good litigation attorney that you know of or who is a good Um, whatever attorney and then most of the time they'll tell you like, you know Go to this person or that person or I use this person or whatever or if they don't know Ask them who they know who would know like, do you know?
00:23:04.849 --> 00:23:11.670
Oh, I don't you know I personally never had to use an attorney, but my friend bill who's also in The real estate business.
00:23:11.670 --> 00:23:18.414
I know he's involved in a lawsuit right now and he's doing pretty well with his attorney You And, you know, they'll give you a referral.
00:23:18.414 --> 00:23:40.605
And generally speaking, the referral is going to be better than if you went to find it yourself because you have a level of trust and a level of vetting already in that referral because someone you know already either used that person or someone they know used that person and has experience with them so that you kind of know what you're getting and it's not a, uh, unknown commodity.
00:23:40.605 --> 00:23:42.224
So that would be my advice is.
00:23:42.585 --> 00:23:52.884
You know, you can always go on the internet and look for stuff, but if you can possibly get a referral from another professional in the space that you're in, that's probably where you're going to get your best results from.
00:23:53.575 --> 00:23:53.934
Okay.
00:23:54.464 --> 00:23:54.654
Yeah.
00:23:54.654 --> 00:24:00.555
I was just wondering if there was a tool out there, kind of like, you know, I'm thinking like Zagat's for restaurants, you know, or something back in the day.
00:24:00.585 --> 00:24:03.694
Now there's all kinds of stuff out there, but some of them are accurate.
00:24:03.694 --> 00:24:08.214
Some of them are like, magically, if you pay, you're at the top of the list.
00:24:08.214 --> 00:24:12.125
So that's why if you Is there a trusted source though?
00:24:12.634 --> 00:24:13.075
Yeah.
00:24:13.914 --> 00:24:18.035
Um, you know, like, Google reviews are probably the most trusted source.
00:24:18.035 --> 00:24:22.694
I mean, there's other things out there, like Avvo, ABVO is another thing.
00:24:23.015 --> 00:24:24.525
Then there's Martindale.
00:24:25.105 --> 00:24:33.255
I mean, there's lots of different attorney directories out there, but like I said, you're probably, if you can get a referral, that's probably going to be your best result.
00:24:34.059 --> 00:24:34.470
Gotcha.
00:24:36.029 --> 00:24:36.430
Okay.
00:24:37.490 --> 00:25:02.130
Um, what else is, is there anything I'm missing that, you know, our listeners should know if they're starting a business or, or have a business, uh, if they, if they've already gone down the path, actually, uh, you know, started a business, they've been in business for a year, they're not really in trouble, but they maybe now have the resources to, you know, to justify a lawyer, um, and to themselves.
00:25:02.130 --> 00:25:07.259
And, you know, is that, is that a good time to bring one into and just review and set everything up right at that point, or?
00:25:07.744 --> 00:25:08.144
Yeah.
00:25:08.224 --> 00:25:11.595
I mean, it's always, anytime's a good time to bring in your business lawyer.
00:25:11.674 --> 00:25:14.115
So if you already started up and you're doing stuff.
00:25:14.694 --> 00:25:33.474
Yeah, have a business lawyer come in and audit all your documents and look over everything and go over, you know, your articles in the corporation, your bylaws, your vendor contracts, your lease, all that stuff, and just go through everything and make sure it's okay because we can, you know, sometimes we can fix it while it's in place.
00:25:33.474 --> 00:25:36.674
So it can be done or we can avoid future issues.
00:25:36.674 --> 00:25:37.144
So, yeah.
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:48.329
You know, just have the attorney come in and conduct an audit on your documents and then go over your business systems and your practices and, you know, separate, you know, question and answer session.
00:25:48.339 --> 00:25:49.750
Just go over as much as you can.
00:25:50.470 --> 00:25:51.329
Okay, good.
00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:55.289
You know, um, one, one other question just thought of.
00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:58.660
AI is a big topic nowadays, right?
00:25:58.660 --> 00:26:00.779
It's disrupting the world, really.
00:26:01.109 --> 00:26:06.779
And one of the areas I think I hear that it's disrupting the most is in the legal field, right?
00:26:06.789 --> 00:26:10.779
Now people are just having chat GPT write up their legal documents for them.
00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:17.990
Um, how, uh, how is that comparing to some of the just getting on Google and doing forms?
00:26:17.990 --> 00:26:25.210
Is it the same, you know, is your response the same as the previous one on that or, and also how is it changing?
00:26:26.115 --> 00:26:26.714
The law for you?
00:26:26.714 --> 00:26:30.295
Are you using it in any way as a tool or, yeah.
00:26:30.384 --> 00:26:30.805
Yeah.
00:26:30.805 --> 00:26:32.694
AI is an interesting topic.
00:26:32.724 --> 00:26:35.065
I am heavy into ai.
00:26:35.394 --> 00:26:37.315
I use a lot of AI in what I do.
00:26:37.315 --> 00:26:48.355
I have two different specific programs that I use that help me do my job and make me a lot more efficient and a lot more, um, refined.
00:26:48.954 --> 00:26:55.164
But the ai, you know, it's applicable in most.
00:26:56.325 --> 00:26:58.115
Industries now you can use AI for anything.
00:26:58.924 --> 00:27:07.444
So the main thing is you have to, no matter what industry you're in or whatever, you have to responsibly use AI.
00:27:07.454 --> 00:27:24.954
You can't just blindly use it and have it go do whatever you have to, you know, put a level of control over it and make sure that ultimately the final product has your review and your approval on it.
00:27:24.974 --> 00:27:27.295
So for instance, like drafting legal documents.
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:48.700
So there's few, I don't know, probably about almost a year ago, there's a big story coming out of federal court in New York City, where this guy who's an attorney went on to chat GPT and basically fed it.
00:27:49.079 --> 00:28:03.829
A, uh, some pleadings, and it had it draft, like, I think a response to emotion or something, and he put in, like, the prompts of, like, you know, he didn't put in great prompts, which I'll get to prompts in a second, but he didn't put in great prompts.
00:28:04.589 --> 00:28:11.569
And he just kind of was like, Hey, write a response to this motion and me, you know, whatever banner.
00:28:12.099 --> 00:28:18.539
So the AI wrote a response to the motion, and then this guy literally just hit print and sent it right to the court.
00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:19.440
He didn't review it.
00:28:19.470 --> 00:28:20.470
He didn't do anything.
00:28:21.009 --> 00:28:22.420
He just took it and followed it.
00:28:23.170 --> 00:28:35.519
And it turns out that all the precedent and all the cases and everything that this motion cited were hallucinations by the AI that were made up and don't actually exist.
00:28:36.849 --> 00:28:42.230
So it was all, all of these cases were totally fabricated and didn't really exist.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:48.630
So this guy got pulled before a federal judge and was, I figured he was sanctioned.
00:28:48.650 --> 00:28:57.650
I think he was saying he was spined and he got in trouble because he essentially just took the AI, had to do his homework and just send it straight to the judge.
00:28:57.650 --> 00:28:58.910
And it was a disaster.
00:28:58.910 --> 00:29:03.200
Now, alternatively, the guy could have.
00:29:04.265 --> 00:29:08.085
First of all, put in prompts that would have restricted it.
00:29:08.565 --> 00:29:14.964
And again, AI is all about the prompts and any industry and anything you're doing AI for, it's all about the prompts.
00:29:14.994 --> 00:29:21.934
There's websites, there's YouTube videos, there's apps, there's everything devoted to the prompts.
00:29:22.325 --> 00:29:28.765
So you have to put in the correct information, no matter what you're trying to get done in AI in order to get the correct information out.
00:29:29.305 --> 00:29:39.505
So this guy could have put in the correct prompts and everything and put guardrails up as far as, you know, use only real cases, uh, you know, things like that.
00:29:40.224 --> 00:29:48.555
And whatever the AI generated, this guy would have just edited it and checked all the citations, make sure that they're real.
00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:51.230
And if they're not real, go find real ones.
00:29:51.690 --> 00:29:54.619
And he would have been okay, but he didn't do that.
00:29:54.619 --> 00:30:02.559
And that's the moral of the story for using AI is you can use AI to do a lot of things in a lot of different businesses.
00:30:02.849 --> 00:30:14.650
You just ultimately have to make sure that you're in control at the end and that whatever product you put out into the world, you've reviewed it, you've edited it, you've checked it so that it's correct.
00:30:14.660 --> 00:30:16.849
And it's not just whatever AI says, because.
00:30:17.414 --> 00:30:22.454
Just like the regular internet will always give you the right answer, but it's also you're doing the wrong answer.
00:30:22.454 --> 00:30:39.464
So we'll AI better at giving you the right answer, but AI also will hallucinate or hallucinate certain things or hallucinate certain things and give you the wrong answer just because it wants to make you happy and give you an answer that you're looking for.
00:30:39.894 --> 00:30:46.615
And you have to make sure that you edit that out of whatever documents you're creating or whatever work product you're creating.
00:30:47.025 --> 00:30:48.444
So AI is important.
00:30:48.505 --> 00:30:50.484
I mean, everyone should be using AI.
00:30:51.069 --> 00:31:02.970
Because, you know, I don't want to say it's the way of the future, but I mean, everything's going to AI, but you got to make sure that ultimately you're in charge of the AI and you just don't use it as a replacement for your own work product.
00:31:03.009 --> 00:31:05.309
You use it as an enhancement for your work product.
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:07.410
Okay.
00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:08.680
That's interesting.
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:09.549
I didn't know that case.
00:31:09.549 --> 00:31:10.589
That's, that's wild.
00:31:11.569 --> 00:31:12.930
Um, yeah.
00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:19.640
I mean, it's an impressive technology, but still got to trust, but verify at the end of the day is what it sounds like.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:21.400
No, that's true.
00:31:21.954 --> 00:31:22.244
Yeah.
00:31:22.755 --> 00:31:22.994
Great.
00:31:22.994 --> 00:31:30.105
Matt, is there anything else you want to leave with our listeners, uh, for, for legal advice if, if they're business owners and want to get started?
00:31:30.545 --> 00:31:30.964
Yeah.
00:31:30.984 --> 00:31:31.994
So we haven't discussed.
00:31:32.694 --> 00:31:32.904
Yeah.
00:31:32.904 --> 00:31:48.164
One of the main things is that, you know, when you start out or even after you start, if you didn't already do it, you need to have a written business plan for your business in addition to your governing documents or contracts or whatever, because the written business plan is your roadmap.
00:31:49.055 --> 00:31:50.644
To how you're going to do your business.
00:31:50.644 --> 00:32:00.914
And also, it's also a requirement for if you're going to get a bank account, if you're going to do certain things, you have to show them like a written business plan in order to actually qualify to do things.
00:32:00.914 --> 00:32:02.694
If you're going to get certain loans or whatever.
00:32:03.164 --> 00:32:16.690
So, 1 of the things that I see that's missing from businesses, in addition to the other documents you've described is a written business plan, which I recommend every business implement because they are very useful no matter what.
00:32:17.500 --> 00:32:20.309
Part of the life cycle you're in for your business.
00:32:21.099 --> 00:32:21.440
Yeah.
00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:21.990
Yeah.
00:32:21.990 --> 00:32:22.369
Good point.
00:32:22.984 --> 00:32:27.234
I mean, it really helps you think through when you're writing a business plan anyways.
00:32:27.234 --> 00:32:29.914
And it's probably something you should update every few years as well, right?
00:32:29.924 --> 00:32:29.944
Yeah.
00:32:30.224 --> 00:32:42.454
No, it's a, it's, you know, I don't want to say it's a living document because it's kind of a cliche, but it is constantly keep updating it as you go on and your goals change and your, uh, what you've achieved change.
00:32:42.464 --> 00:32:44.115
So you always want to keep it up to date.
00:32:45.484 --> 00:32:45.894
Very good.
00:32:46.494 --> 00:32:47.644
Well, thank you for that, Matthew.
00:32:48.535 --> 00:32:53.535
So Matthew, I think at this point, we're going to jump into our world famous Wayfinder 4.
00:32:54.365 --> 00:32:54.954
Are you ready?
00:32:55.535 --> 00:32:56.085
I'm ready.
00:32:56.724 --> 00:32:57.105
All right.
00:32:57.125 --> 00:33:06.355
Give us a hack that you use, something you use every day that, you know, kind of help make your life easier.
00:33:06.434 --> 00:33:07.515
We just discussed it.
00:33:07.515 --> 00:33:08.505
Chat GPT 4.
00:33:08.555 --> 00:33:09.125
0.
00:33:09.664 --> 00:33:10.035
Okay.
00:33:10.984 --> 00:33:11.505
AI.
00:33:11.585 --> 00:33:13.085
Like I said, do it responsibly.
00:33:13.085 --> 00:33:13.615
It's great.
00:33:13.634 --> 00:33:14.855
Do it unresponsibly.
00:33:14.855 --> 00:33:16.335
You're going to run into disaster.
00:33:17.154 --> 00:33:17.704
Sounds good.
00:33:18.345 --> 00:33:30.535
I just read an article this morning, I think, about, uh, Um, uh, open AI is it that is, uh, releasing search GPT, which is going to directly compete with Google now.
00:33:30.714 --> 00:33:30.944
Yeah.
00:33:31.154 --> 00:33:31.404
Yeah.
00:33:31.944 --> 00:33:32.654
Which is interesting.
00:33:33.565 --> 00:33:34.634
How about a favorite?
00:33:36.105 --> 00:33:41.515
Could be a book, activity, uh, movie, whatever.
00:33:41.545 --> 00:33:48.845
You know, favorite thing that I just launched, cause I was, In the late 90s early 2000s.
00:33:48.954 --> 00:34:10.335
I was way Into pop music like way way into pop music and there's another music, but they just released a uh, A three part documentary on netflix called dirty pop which is all about the rise and fall of lou perlman Who is the empresario behind the backstreet boys and sync and other?
00:34:10.704 --> 00:34:14.355
musical pictures so um It's pretty entertaining.
00:34:14.505 --> 00:34:16.505
Um, it's pretty informative.
00:34:16.514 --> 00:34:18.554
It's a very interesting story about the guy.
00:34:18.565 --> 00:34:25.715
The guy was, the guy, in addition to did all that stuff, coincidentally ran the longest running Ponzi scheme in American history at the same time.
00:34:26.724 --> 00:34:29.454
So it's very like Jekyll and Hyde kind of thing.
00:34:29.454 --> 00:34:30.155
It's pretty good.
00:34:30.155 --> 00:34:30.815
So I'd recommend it.
00:34:31.164 --> 00:34:31.715
Dirty pop.
00:34:31.715 --> 00:34:32.664
Is that on Netflix?
00:34:33.074 --> 00:34:33.954
It's on Netflix.
00:34:33.954 --> 00:34:34.784
It's called dirty pop.
00:34:34.784 --> 00:34:38.494
It just came out a few days ago, but I was, I was waiting for it to come out a long time.
00:34:38.594 --> 00:34:39.355
So, Oh, cool.
00:34:39.355 --> 00:34:39.894
I'll check it out.
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.119
Thank you.
00:34:41.150 --> 00:34:44.260
What about a piece of advice for a younger self?
00:34:45.829 --> 00:34:51.800
A piece of advice from a younger self would be have fun and believe in yourself at all times.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.599
And don't let self doubt or other doubt creep into your mind.
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:00.980
Just always be focused on self belief.
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:02.170
Love it.
00:35:02.619 --> 00:35:05.230
What do you do for fun, since you say you have fun?
00:35:06.150 --> 00:35:08.420
Can't imagine, it's practicing law.
00:35:08.420 --> 00:35:11.250
Yeah, practicing law, believe it or not, is not fun.
00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:19.789
Um, you know, I do a lot, I have a 16 year old and a 12 year old, so I do a lot of stuff with my kids.
00:35:19.929 --> 00:35:20.260
Yeah.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.530
And, uh, you know, you know, I'm just a guy.
00:35:23.539 --> 00:35:30.800
I like sports, I like watching sports, I like golf, which I never thought I would be, but I got into golf recently.
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:31.539
Okay.
00:35:31.570 --> 00:35:33.289
And just doing stuff with my family.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:34.190
I love it.
00:35:35.989 --> 00:35:36.250
Great.
00:35:36.250 --> 00:35:38.579
What about a big opportunity you see out there right now?
00:35:40.150 --> 00:36:09.530
I think a big opportunity that's out there is, you know, I'm going to go back to the AI thing, it's AI to use it, to make your, not just work life, but entire life easier, but you got to make sure, like I said, that you're in charge at the end of the day and you're accountable for everything, but if you're a responsible AI, No matter who you are, what you're doing, in some way, AI is going to make your life a lot easier.
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:17.619
You just have to make sure that you are responsible for it and that you, uh, you're in control of it.
00:36:17.619 --> 00:36:20.170
And no matter what you're doing, it's going to make your life easier in some way.
00:36:21.769 --> 00:36:22.119
Thank you.
00:36:22.710 --> 00:36:30.400
Is, uh, if people want to know any more about you, they want to get a hold of you, if they need a good lawyer out in South Florida, uh, how can they reach you?
00:36:31.594 --> 00:36:35.385
Sure, so the easiest way to reach me is to go to my website for narrow legal.
00:36:35.664 --> 00:36:37.664
com, which is just my last name legal.
00:36:37.914 --> 00:36:52.519
com and that has all my links to, you know, my phone number, my email address, all my social media, um, My how to videos, my white papers, my blog stuff.
00:36:52.519 --> 00:37:00.570
So if you have a question, I have enough material on there that it should answer a lot of initial questions that people have about business law.
00:37:00.929 --> 00:37:02.920
So answer will be on there.
00:37:02.929 --> 00:37:03.679
If not, just.
00:37:03.954 --> 00:37:05.045
Email me or call me.
00:37:05.804 --> 00:37:06.204
Excellent.
00:37:06.264 --> 00:37:13.045
If, if we're not in Florida and we want to get a hold of you, can you, can we call you anyways and would you be able to refer us to the right person?
00:37:13.284 --> 00:37:14.074
Yeah, I can help you.
00:37:14.074 --> 00:37:17.684
And if I can't help you, I know to refer you to someone who can help you where you are.
00:37:18.235 --> 00:37:18.625
Excellent.
00:37:18.635 --> 00:37:19.025
Thank you.
00:37:19.985 --> 00:37:22.045
Well, Matthew, uh, thanks for being on the show.
00:37:22.045 --> 00:37:29.994
I think this is a lot of our, uh, Our listeners are entrepreneurs and, or, or want to be entrepreneurs, or about to become entrepreneurs.
00:37:30.005 --> 00:37:38.014
So I think, uh, the legal We hope you've enjoyed The Wayfinder Show.
00:37:38.164 --> 00:37:42.385
If you got value from this episode, please take a few seconds to leave us a 5 star rating and review.
00:37:42.675 --> 00:37:46.925
This will allow us to help more people find their way to live more authentic and exciting lives.
00:37:47.585 --> 00:37:48.885
We'll catch you on the next episode.
00:37:58.364 --> 00:38:05.114
aspect is, uh, as I've learned is, is something we need to consider and, uh, we should be considering it early on.
00:38:05.114 --> 00:38:08.875
So this has been great that you've been here to share some of your wisdom with us.
00:38:09.364 --> 00:38:10.585
Yeah, no, I appreciate it, Louis.
00:38:10.585 --> 00:38:11.534
Thanks for having me on.
00:38:11.954 --> 00:38:12.164
Yeah.
00:38:12.304 --> 00:38:12.715
Thank you.
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