Discovering Your Personality Type with Eric Gee

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Sometimes our friends do a better job answering our questions for us because sometimes the way we perceive ourselves is not necessarily the most accurate.

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Right.

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Because we're not necessarily comparing ourselves to others and seeing the distinction.

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Welcome to The Wayfinder Show with Luis Hernandez, where guests discuss the why and how of making changes that led them down a more authentic path or allow them to level up in some area of their life.

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Our goal is to dig deep and provide not only knowledge, but actionable advice to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.

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Come join us and find the way to your dream life.

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Welcome back to the Wayfinder show.

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This is Louie Hernandez.

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And I am here with Eric Gee.

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Eric describes his early school years as a struggle caught between being a charismatic participant and a disenchanted dissident.

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Frustrated by a system that often overlooks individual differences, he's dedicated the last two decades to helping people find their unique, personal voice.

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Paths to Success, founding an education company focused on personalized growth.

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His book, The Power of Personality, summarizes years of research and insights from personality typing over 50, 000 individuals, emphasizing that our relationships with others thrive when we understand ourselves.

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Beyond education, Eric is a classically trained pianist, a backyard barbecue enthusiast, an amateur magician.

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With a rich tapestry of experiences and managing a golf course to coaching basketball.

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Eric, welcome to the Wayfinder show.

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Thank you for having me, Louis.

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I like the, I like the description as a dissident.

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That makes it seem very powerful or makes me seem much more powerful than I actually am.

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But you got a lot of power, man.

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I think, I think a political dissident.

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Yeah.

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That was cool.

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I'll admit I got some help.

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From, I'm starting to use AI a little bit more to help me out as my assistant writer.

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But, oh yeah, we took some of there, took what you gave me, debriefed it in there, then tweaked it a little bit more.

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I'm finding it's making me a better writer actually, cause it makes me think a little bit different.

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I'm enjoying it.

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Yeah.

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Why not?

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You know, why not get some assistance just with a button, just press of a button.

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And we go back and forth on it.

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It's kind of cool.

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So yeah, I'm curious.

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So personality typing, there's a lot out there about that.

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Right.

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And I'm one of those like personality type quiz geeks, right?

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Like I love taking personality tests all the time.

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I'm curious, how yours is different.

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You know, that's a good question.

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I know they have like the test, like, Oh, what Hogwarts house are you?

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And then everyone takes, and they're trying to be, everyone is rooting for Gryffindor, right?

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Cause no one wants to be Hufflepuff.

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I try to make or have, have fun with it, but in terms of the actual methodology, I'm pretty serious in that.

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I think a lot of the, the personality types, especially the serious ones that everyone's always heard of, like MBTI or Myers Briggs.

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Enneagram, I think disc, they all kind of focus on external things like what's on the outside and mine is more of a focus on values and kind of what drives people, right?

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So as opposed to what you see someone doing, it's more, why are they doing it?

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Right?

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So, like, if you just took like authors, for example, like, you could just look at a bunch of different writers.

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Like Hemingway versus Tolstoy and know that they're pretty different in a lot of ways, but they're doing the same thing.

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So we just focus on what they were doing externally, and they're both, I think, very talkative, outspoken people.

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We might just think they're the same personality type, but when it comes down to what they write about and why they do it, I think that's what distinguishes them.

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And that's kind of what my personality typing methodology is all about, too.

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It's like, what do we value?

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Figure that out first and then that'll lead you to discovering more about yourself.

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Yeah.

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That's interesting.

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As you explained that I, I'm, I'm thinking of the ones I've taken like disc, like you mentioned, this I've taken him so many times cause I'm in real estate and we use that all the time to, but they're really meant to be, yeah, like you said, it kind of uncover our strengths and what we're like to use rather than the values.

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I think there's a lot more about that, especially as I'm growing, I realized that, right.

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My decision making process is starting to revolve more around my values, and so it's making me think more about what are my values, Cause our strengths often come from what we do a lot of, And generally, if you like something and you're really passionate about it and it's a big priority slash value, then there's a higher likelihood that you're going to just going to do it more.

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And then the more you do it, then generally the better we get at it.

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Right.

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As opposed to something we don't like.

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Yeah.

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Although I'll argue, I tend to be one of those guys who I get bored as I feel like I've mastered something.

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I agree.

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So I, I don't, even though I'm good at it, I don't actually want to do it anymore.

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Right.

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That's a different, yeah, I think my curiosity take is more, kicks in.

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Like I want to go and explore things.

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I don't really know where I'm good at.

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Right.

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And that could be based on your value system, right?

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Your curiosity, your curiosity, like.

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Your desire for information.

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Yes.

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cause that tells a lot, but I'm sorry, I'm already trying to type what type you are based on that.

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But generally, you know, I separate people into four packs.

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Of, animals, because I use animal personality types, it's easy to remember.

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So if you have four packs, and then you have four animals within each pack, that's 16 total, and one of the packs prioritizes information.

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So that might be where you're leaning towards.

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another pack values self knowledge, and I think information and self knowledge are different, right?

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I mean, they're similar in a lot of ways, but different.

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So, like, if you're that person who's like, yeah, I'm just really into fantasy football.

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I just want to learn a lot about that.

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And then you get a certain interest and curiosity in something else and you bounce to that, you're probably more of an information seeker.

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if generally you're bouncing back and forth to hobbies based on how you identify with them, probably more about self knowledge, right?

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Yeah.

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That's a big distinguishing trait.

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Interesting.

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What are the others?

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The other two, and those are the large ones, actually.

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It's funny that I mentioned the other two, which are the information seekers and the self knowledge seekers.

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They only make up in total about, like, 15 percent of the population.

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there's one path that makes up probably about half the population.

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and they value safety and security.

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So as you can imagine, those are the values that really do get impressed upon us, especially when we're younger, right?

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Especially when you go to school.

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most teachers.

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Fall into that pack, which is good because teaching is all about creating a safe space for kids to learn on.

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And that's that would be a value and priority, right?

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If you just think about your elementary school teachers, what's the first thing you go over the rules right here?

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High class.

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These are the rules.

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This is the proper way to behave in society.

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Don't do this.

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Do this.

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You know, don't lie.

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Be honest.

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Have an organizer.

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All those kinds of things are gatherer values.

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I call them gatherers.

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and that's one of the packs.

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Mhm.

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and then the last pack would be hunters, and they value excitement, like just visceral excitement.

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Like, they want to go on roller coasters, they want to try every new food, go to concerts, listen to the newest artist.

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That's their motivation.

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So.

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And so that would be the second biggest?

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Yes.

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Really?

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About third.

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And I call them hunters.

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So, and I call them that because when you think of a village, right, like, what do you have the most of?

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Like a medieval village back in the day, you'd probably have the most gatherers.

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You need them.

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Like, we need a lot of people to harvest the crops, but you really only need one person to tell the village, Hey guys, by the way, you know, like it's going to rain soon.

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We better sow the fields.

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and that's the shaman type, and that's the shaman pack, um, that prioritizes self knowledge.

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So they make up about, you know, as I told you, those two packs made up and combined about 15%.

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Shamans make up about, yeah, like, I guess, what is that, 8%?

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And then the other, pack that values information, they make about the other 8%.

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Interesting.

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Okay.

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I'm thinking of, I would imagine that the values change with different seasons of our lives.

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Right?

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Like, so I know, safety and security means very little to me now because I'm going back into a phase of empty nestedness.

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Right?

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Like, so my kids are growing up, they're getting out.

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Like now I just want to go out and explore the world and explore all my curiosities.

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And that was a lot like what I was like, in my teens and twenties, right?

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And then when my kids came along, I just wanted to provide safety and security for them.

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So I would imagine that values, our values can change quite a bit, right?

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Yeah.

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You know, in personality, the theory states like, it's more about like, let's say how you parented.

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So you are, if you are an information seeker, the way you parent your children will be probably different than a safety security first, you know, like my father was an information seeker, so a lot of the things that he would do would be more, I wouldn't say he was concerned with our safety as much as he was, he was just curious about us as kids, like he would do things like he would, he just really loved being a parent because it was very, he found kids fascinating, so he'd want to put us into things that we thought were interesting because he wanted us to really pursue our interests just like he would, right?

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So I find it interesting that we parent different based on our values, right?

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Like, and excitement seekers, they're going to be the type of parents like, no, let them make mistakes, you know, let them don't worry about it.

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Just let them do it.

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You know, they'll figure it out.

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They might be less inclined to be like, say, be careful, you know?

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And when I used to teach my teachers that because I, when I went back, when I owned an education company for about a decade, I wanted them to understand their values so they could also understand how that bounced off some of their students, right?

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Because if you have one of those hunter kids, right?

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I always say you can't tell a hunter kid to be careful.

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And that's the first instinct a gatherer is going to tell them.

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Be careful, you know, because hunters get off on excitement and like taking risks.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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And when you get older, they're going to take those same risks.

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And so, and when you get older, the stakes are higher.

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When you're young, you want them to take the risk because the stakes are lower.

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What's the worst that they can happen?

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Scrape their knee, you know, maybe fail a homework assignment.

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That's okay.

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Right?

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Like, but you want them to take those chances because when they grow up, they're going to get stronger and then they're going to be our firefighters.

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They're going to be our pilots.

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they're going to be the people who take chances, which we need as well.

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Interesting.

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Yeah.

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I would imagine if 50 percent of our population.

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is safety and security, then that could also explain, going back to the parenting aspect, is there's been this concept of just helicopter parenting, right?

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And I'm wondering if that has a lot to do with it, because it seems like it's a big phenomenon, right?

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Where we hover over our kids so much, and control so much to provide safety and security that, they're not growing up as quickly.

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It's that certainty.

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Right.

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And I think gatherers in general value certainty or the idea of certainty, because obviously that gives you a sense of security.

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You're like, Oh yeah, this is black.

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This is white.

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And I know the difference.

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and you know, that obviously has a strong suits too.

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I don't want to say like gatherers don't think for themselves.

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I mean, they do tend to follow tradition and they will follow and value authority, but it's not because they don't think for themselves.

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It's more just.

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Well, you know, in certain contexts, you want to like have a system.

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Like if you're like in the middle of a battle, you have to listen to your commanding officer.

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Not because you should always listen to them, but because you're not going to have a philosophical debate going off.

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You know, if you're commanding officers do this, then you do it.

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Right.

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Because that's the chain of command.

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Sure.

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I think it's always based on context and a lot of situations.

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I'm sure, you know, as a parent, like safety and security should be the utmost concern.

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But overall, I think.

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The idea of personality is like knowing what our values are.

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So having that anchor, then you can kind of borrow from other types as you work to self improve.

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So how'd you get into this?

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You know, I was always into, like you, I was a personality test geek.

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Like I'll take all of them.

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I'm not even now.

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I'm like, I want, I still want to know what Hogwarts type I am or what else am I, you know, like, let's just fun.

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I think, as a kid though, you know, I found that I was the kid who I would say I fit in, but only like on the outside, like I always keep around me and I don't think anyone ever thought I was like, like lonely, but sometimes in the inside, I felt alone a bit because my values are a little different than the majority of kids.

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Like I was more into different things like.

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I mean, this is the easiest thing when you're in school, right?

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some people are just not into doing homework, but feel like they should do their homework and they should write it down and they're organized and they should put that in the backpack.

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I was not that kid.

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And I had a hard time growing up going, why am I not like that?

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Because it should be so easy to write your homework down Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.

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And I could never do it.

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And I tried for like the first week of school.

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I always tried every school year.

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Never got it.

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And I ended up just like taking my homework and just trashing into my backpack and taking it home and maybe doing it, maybe not.

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and it was basically through that, which got me into, okay, let me start studying these different personalities.

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because I learned about MBTI at an early age.

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And then as I did that, I researched a bunch and then I started to find like, I don't say holes, but room for improvement in them.

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especially like something like extroversion, introversion.

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I'm not really a big believer in that.

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Like, I think it's slightly.

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And oversimplification.

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so I, I studied that and then as I started my education company, I started to use that with my students.

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We'd have about a thousand students a year and through that I learned a lot more and then I developed my methodology, to which I now wrote the book and, you know, got it published.

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I think they published, when did it get published?

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Like six months ago?

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No, less than that.

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Five months ago.

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Oh, so you had a, you had a real publisher.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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I went through the whole agent, agent publishing process.

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My agent's great, Steve Harris, great guy.

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and yeah, I went through that whole process, which is not a whole lot of fun in terms of, you know, that's the part we can't control.

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But, you know, that's the book.

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Writing the book is the easiest part, they say.

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Right.

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Congratulations.

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Yeah.

00:13:46.495 --> 00:13:48.134
Oh, but what is MBTI?

00:13:49.134 --> 00:13:51.355
MBTI is like Myers Briggs.

00:13:51.365 --> 00:13:58.225
So like, if you've ever heard like a full letter combination, like I'm a blah, blah, ENTJ, you know, like, and I don't want to say blah, blah, blah.

00:13:58.225 --> 00:13:59.384
Cause I actually really enjoyed it.

00:13:59.384 --> 00:14:01.164
And I learned a lot from reading about that.

00:14:01.654 --> 00:14:03.774
And so mine is more of an evolution of that.

00:14:03.774 --> 00:14:05.445
Cause Myers Briggs has 16 types as well.

00:14:05.445 --> 00:14:08.304
So it's funny, people are like, Oh, yours is basically MBTI.

00:14:08.585 --> 00:14:12.825
I'm like, it has 16, but the way you go about it is very, very different.

00:14:12.835 --> 00:14:14.784
You know how you get to those points.

00:14:14.784 --> 00:14:17.365
And people come up to me and tell me they're Myers Briggs type.

00:14:17.365 --> 00:14:19.695
And sometimes they're like, no, you're not that you're this one.

00:14:20.034 --> 00:14:20.294
Yeah.

00:14:20.424 --> 00:14:21.095
How do you know that?

00:14:21.105 --> 00:14:22.284
Why are you telling me something?

00:14:22.315 --> 00:14:46.269
I'm like, well, it's just because of different methodology, you know, yeah Interesting, you know, I find it interesting that so many of these still end up going to like four Master categories and then the ones that go deeper and entrenched, you know go down that usually end up around 16 as well you know, i'm thinking this disc is a little more high level and it just kind of sticks with the floor You Right.

00:14:46.269 --> 00:14:54.159
But there's like Myers Briggs and insights and some others that I've have taken over the years that they, they seem to break down to, to about 16 somehow.

00:14:54.389 --> 00:14:58.740
in my book, there's a whole chapter on it's literally, I think the title of the chapter is four.

00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:03.970
and it goes over, or maybe it's called the history of something, but basically it goes over the history of personality typing.

00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:14.575
And I mean, obviously not the extensive history, but That's a very fast history and I go over how many systems I've used for like, even obviously we think of the elements back in the day, right?

00:15:14.575 --> 00:15:18.284
Like fire, earth, air, water, and there are equivalents to the packs, right?

00:15:18.284 --> 00:15:22.345
Like if you think of gatherers, safety and security, of course, they'd probably be earth, right?

00:15:22.345 --> 00:15:25.434
Really grounded, really steady, really structured, very secure.

00:15:25.975 --> 00:15:28.975
And then as it goes throughout, Plato had four in the Republic.

00:15:28.975 --> 00:15:29.725
He wrote about that.

00:15:29.754 --> 00:15:32.644
Aristotle had four and just go through the whole list.

00:15:33.245 --> 00:15:33.865
Interesting.

00:15:33.865 --> 00:15:35.235
Wow.

00:15:35.995 --> 00:15:40.534
Yeah, it seems, yeah, somehow there must be something there if it just leads back to that, right?

00:15:41.215 --> 00:15:45.095
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot of history to, negate, you know, or poo poo.

00:15:46.184 --> 00:15:48.715
So, what the process would look like with yours.

00:15:49.044 --> 00:15:56.534
Is it going to be one of those tests you're taking a, you answer a bunch of questions and you do it, or is it like a one on one type of thing, or?

00:15:57.004 --> 00:15:57.764
That's a good question.

00:15:57.774 --> 00:15:59.085
I have a test online.

00:15:59.315 --> 00:16:00.554
If you go to the utopia project.

00:16:00.715 --> 00:16:05.384
com, there's a test and the assessment I made, but I'm always like, it's still just a test, right?

00:16:05.465 --> 00:16:07.544
It doesn't apply to everyone, who knows how we answer it.

00:16:07.544 --> 00:16:11.975
I had someone take the test and she got, the animal personality type she got was an owl.

00:16:12.504 --> 00:16:15.034
And I was like, you're not an owl.

00:16:15.195 --> 00:16:15.865
And she's like, what am I?

00:16:15.884 --> 00:16:16.585
You're a peacock.

00:16:16.754 --> 00:16:20.764
I think we can guess how different the owl type is from the peacock type, right?

00:16:21.085 --> 00:16:22.115
And she's like, why would you say that?

00:16:22.115 --> 00:16:22.865
I'm like, because you're loud.

00:16:23.274 --> 00:16:27.955
You know, and so it's, and then I had a friend of hers take, I'm like, have a friend of yours take it.

00:16:28.044 --> 00:16:29.024
They got the peacock.

00:16:29.024 --> 00:16:29.934
They took it for her.

00:16:30.325 --> 00:16:40.774
And so generally sometimes, even as we take it, sometimes our friends do a better job answering our questions for us because of sometimes the way we perceive ourselves is not necessarily the most accurate, right?

00:16:40.774 --> 00:16:41.335
Because.

00:16:41.524 --> 00:16:44.695
we're not necessarily comparing ourselves to others and seeing the distinction.

00:16:45.315 --> 00:16:51.904
so, a test is always going to be a test and I always have that disclaimer, even though I do like my tests and I did a lot of user testing for it.

00:16:52.034 --> 00:16:55.164
But at the end of the day, the way I wrote the book was to teach people to be the test.

00:16:55.174 --> 00:17:04.474
So it literally goes through the entire methodology, in a fun very jokey way, to be honest, but it will teach you basically, how to use the methodology to type the people in your lives.

00:17:04.845 --> 00:17:10.845
And then you can start asking specific questions on a one to one basis, because the questions might change, Someone said, what am I?

00:17:10.855 --> 00:17:12.625
I'm like, do you ever go wine tasting?

00:17:12.914 --> 00:17:15.845
And the person's like, I love wine tasting, big emphasis on love.

00:17:16.045 --> 00:17:17.224
I'm like, okay, I know what animal you are.

00:17:17.424 --> 00:17:19.224
And she's like, you got that off of one question.

00:17:19.545 --> 00:17:25.785
I'm like, well, no, like I'm seeing like a lot of stuff and I know you kind of, so I have a basic ideas where I'm going towards.

00:17:25.785 --> 00:17:29.214
And then that wine tasting question was just like a confirmation for me.

00:17:30.075 --> 00:17:30.404
Huh?

00:17:30.424 --> 00:17:32.424
And she's like, and she's like, oh yeah, that is me.

00:17:32.444 --> 00:17:34.134
I'm like, well, yeah, generally that means.

00:17:34.644 --> 00:17:36.494
That's good because you're showing a lot of yourself.

00:17:36.505 --> 00:17:41.815
If you're, the more confident we are in ourselves and the more secure we are, I think we express our personalities, strongly.

00:17:42.464 --> 00:17:43.045
Interesting.

00:17:43.194 --> 00:17:43.625
Okay.

00:17:44.275 --> 00:17:53.825
So based on, so is that what you, I would imagine you being so deep into this, you naturally just can't help but to type people out as you converse with them, right?

00:17:55.335 --> 00:17:55.684
Yeah.

00:17:56.424 --> 00:17:57.065
Yeah, kind of.

00:17:57.065 --> 00:18:00.634
I mean, and the whole point of the book is to make it more of a natural thing, right?

00:18:00.634 --> 00:18:02.765
It's not like I'm thinking of that consciously, but you're right.

00:18:02.765 --> 00:18:10.964
it's just like, the way I see it, the more we have that in the back of our minds, the more we're conscious of actually listening to the person and learning about them.

00:18:11.464 --> 00:18:16.559
Because sometimes, it's not even what, The answer someone says it's how they say it.

00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:16.759
Right.

00:18:16.789 --> 00:18:22.539
Like when I asked that wine tasting question, if she had said it like, Oh yeah, I kind of go wine tasting or I like wine tasting.

00:18:22.769 --> 00:18:26.789
It's a big difference in saying I love wine tasting big exclamation point.

00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:27.150
Right.

00:18:27.490 --> 00:18:27.809
Yeah.

00:18:27.819 --> 00:18:33.279
So I think just that kind of pushes people a certain way, or at least for me, it pushes them into a certain category.

00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.734
Are you able to distinguish when That truly is them.

00:18:37.884 --> 00:18:45.555
And, you know, sometimes we're expressive in a way that, you know, it isn't really us, you know, who are almost acting.

00:18:46.694 --> 00:18:46.904
Yeah.

00:18:46.904 --> 00:18:47.644
That's a good question.

00:18:47.644 --> 00:18:52.775
You know, like sometimes it can get a little tricky, especially with the extroverted part of it, right.

00:18:52.775 --> 00:18:54.775
How much someone's expressing their true self.

00:18:55.075 --> 00:18:58.904
And then it's just more or less like have been patient and starting to learn more about that person.

00:18:58.904 --> 00:19:02.144
And we started seeing some cracks and you're just like, Oh, they're not really like that.

00:19:02.154 --> 00:19:04.404
They actually kind of, they're kind of more like this.

00:19:04.789 --> 00:19:12.769
You know, but sometimes you can tell like when someone's not truly into something and they're kind of like putting on a front, you know, I think it's within all of us to figure that out.

00:19:12.869 --> 00:19:13.210
Right.

00:19:13.210 --> 00:19:14.349
And that's also part of the book.

00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:21.069
I'm like, let's tap into all the intra and interpersonal knowledge that we have in our memory banks and in our own experience.

00:19:21.069 --> 00:19:21.259
Right.

00:19:21.259 --> 00:19:23.559
But we just haven't really thought about, right.

00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:27.839
It's like Tim Duncan, you know, Tim Duncan didn't even start playing basketball until he was like 14.

00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:29.220
I think that he was a swimmer.

00:19:30.009 --> 00:19:32.660
And then, but he, it's not like he didn't have it in him, right?

00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:34.230
And then he, then he taught it to him.

00:19:34.230 --> 00:19:38.319
And then of course he was like in college, four years later, he's like the top player in college.

00:19:38.660 --> 00:19:38.789
Yeah.

00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:39.140
Yeah.

00:19:40.339 --> 00:19:40.890
Interesting.

00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:52.960
I'm curious if, if in your book you also start to train people on how they can use it, understanding people's personality types for different practices like negotiations or, or such.

00:19:54.019 --> 00:20:01.619
You know, there aren't that many, there are some actionables in the book, there's less prescriptive measures just because a lot of the book is diagnostic measures, right?

00:20:01.630 --> 00:20:03.190
It's like, oh, who is this person?

00:20:03.369 --> 00:20:07.319
Now, as the information is about these people, I guess, you know, we could use.

00:20:07.994 --> 00:20:09.545
Use it to a certain extent because you're like, Oh, okay.

00:20:09.545 --> 00:20:11.045
I know this person, this is what motivates us.

00:20:11.065 --> 00:20:11.884
This is who they are.

00:20:12.154 --> 00:20:19.105
I mean, I do have certain examples where it shows like where you can get people, I don't say get people to like you, but really it's more about creating a bond, right?

00:20:19.164 --> 00:20:21.345
like a real bond, not artificial.

00:20:21.865 --> 00:20:36.224
I think in general, like, yeah, if you know, let's say someone's a beaver type and they're motivated by doing their duty, you know, and they're motivated by doing all the work that no one else wants to do, I'd say in the book, like, never tell that, never try to take that job away from that person, right?

00:20:36.224 --> 00:20:39.275
If you really want to connect with that person, all you have to do is say, Hey, thank you.

00:20:39.315 --> 00:20:41.095
I appreciate that you do the dirty work.

00:20:41.299 --> 00:20:44.829
That no one else wants to do because you try to take it away from them in a weird way.

00:20:44.829 --> 00:20:46.049
They're like, no, no, I, what are you trying to say?

00:20:46.049 --> 00:20:46.700
I can't do this.

00:20:46.700 --> 00:20:47.480
No, I can do this.

00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:48.210
Let me do this.

00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:49.430
You know, it's funny.

00:20:49.430 --> 00:20:50.339
And that way we're other types.

00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:51.509
We, yes, sure.

00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.859
Take it, take it from me, you know, like I don't want to do it anymore, you know, and that's how you bond with them.

00:20:56.210 --> 00:20:56.660
So, yeah.

00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:01.549
Well, based on, the little bit we've talked right now, would you be able to diagnose which animal I am?

00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:04.009
You know, I have it kind of between two.

00:21:04.190 --> 00:21:04.490
Okay.

00:21:05.450 --> 00:21:08.529
So the question I would ask is like, Do you like to read a lot?

00:21:09.289 --> 00:21:09.630
I do.

00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:11.369
And what kind of books do you read?

00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:12.940
Just, what are your, favorite kind of books?

00:21:13.309 --> 00:21:19.670
Oh, I go through phases, I think we mentioned before the show started, I'm reading The Harada Method right now.

00:21:20.029 --> 00:21:20.269
Oh, right.

00:21:20.289 --> 00:21:26.619
usually it's self help, self development types, but I go through phases where I really like, biographies.

00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:37.670
You know, sometimes of interesting people a lot, and then other times I'll just read a novel just to get my brain into something different for the moment.

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:39.960
For the most part, it's self help, I would say.

00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.490
A subject that I want to learn on about a lot.

00:21:42.539 --> 00:21:53.964
I want to, you know, I told you right now, I'm reading Harada Method, because I saw an article about Shehey Otani, and it mentioned that he, learned by doing this Harada method as a kid in school and I'm like, what is this?

00:21:53.964 --> 00:22:04.069
And I started going deep diving into it and found it in order the book and you know Nobody's heard of this book probably but you know, and that's leading me, down a different path rabbit hole, Okay.

00:22:04.460 --> 00:22:06.180
I think you are a chimpanzee.

00:22:06.470 --> 00:22:07.410
That is my guess.

00:22:07.619 --> 00:22:09.130
Chimpanzee personality type.

00:22:09.529 --> 00:22:09.990
Okay.

00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:11.109
And I'll explain it.

00:22:11.109 --> 00:22:17.460
I can explain it, you know, like saying a random animal, so you'd be part of the Smith pack I didn't mention what their name was.

00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:21.980
The Smiths it's not the eighties band, the Smiths, they prioritize, information.

00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.579
So they only make up about maybe seven to 8 percent of the population.

00:22:26.025 --> 00:22:27.464
have you ever seen Game of Thrones?

00:22:28.535 --> 00:22:31.625
I love using fictional characters because then people are like, Oh, okay.

00:22:31.625 --> 00:22:32.015
I got it.

00:22:32.025 --> 00:22:35.484
You know, You think of the Game of Thrones character that you relate to the most?

00:22:36.025 --> 00:22:38.984
I'll tell you what the chimpanzee person is and then let's see if they match.

00:22:39.045 --> 00:22:42.085
Oh, I'm going to be so bad at this because I can't even remember the characters.

00:22:42.325 --> 00:22:42.595
okay.

00:22:42.595 --> 00:22:45.085
I'll just say Tyrion Lannister is a chimpanzee.

00:22:45.444 --> 00:22:45.535
Who?

00:22:45.535 --> 00:22:45.694
Lannister.

00:22:45.694 --> 00:22:47.755
So it's Peter Dinklage's character?

00:22:47.934 --> 00:22:48.484
The little person?

00:22:48.845 --> 00:22:49.934
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:50.115 --> 00:22:51.394
That would be a chimpanzee.

00:22:51.755 --> 00:22:52.134
Okay.

00:22:52.734 --> 00:23:05.295
So he's the type of person, if he's curious about something and you got me when you kept saying interesting and you're curious about things, chimpanzees just have a lot of different interests and they bounce around and they're like, if they like something, they just go for it and go, Oh, I like that book.

00:23:05.375 --> 00:23:05.825
Let me buy it.

00:23:05.845 --> 00:23:06.924
You know, or that, that sounds interesting.

00:23:06.924 --> 00:23:07.974
Let me pursue that.

00:23:08.234 --> 00:23:11.882
And then something else would come up and like, Oh, that sounds, let me pursue that.

00:23:11.882 --> 00:23:12.131
Yeah.

00:23:12.131 --> 00:23:12.381
Yeah.

00:23:12.651 --> 00:23:19.101
Yeah, of course, their growth arc, you know, when they're young chimpanzees, they might not always finish the things that they start, right?

00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:20.161
They're like, Oh, that seems interesting.

00:23:20.191 --> 00:23:21.270
Oh, but that seems interesting too.

00:23:21.330 --> 00:23:26.000
And they bounce around, but as they mature and get stronger, they tend to finish more often than they not.

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:27.195
Oh, Interesting.

00:23:27.195 --> 00:23:27.792
Yeah.

00:23:28.753 --> 00:23:29.094
Yeah.

00:23:30.413 --> 00:23:31.773
Yeah, that sounds a lot like me.

00:23:32.963 --> 00:23:33.804
I hope it's accurate.

00:23:33.903 --> 00:23:37.594
I often describe, you know, talk about my shiny object syndrome on this show.

00:23:37.594 --> 00:23:40.084
They're experimentalists and they love novelty.

00:23:40.314 --> 00:23:46.604
Chimpanzees are like the people, and that's why they tend to be inventive they love ideas because they're always fascinated by them.

00:23:46.824 --> 00:23:48.673
the chimpanzee type person will try out.

00:23:49.038 --> 00:23:52.598
a thousand ideas and 999 of them will be bad.

00:23:52.798 --> 00:23:55.888
Like, Hey, put a pink flag on the back of this car.

00:23:55.898 --> 00:23:58.558
Not that that's bad, but if you ask them to be like, why not?

00:23:59.058 --> 00:23:59.818
Yeah, it's kind of fun.

00:23:59.818 --> 00:24:00.128
Let's see it.

00:24:00.179 --> 00:24:06.519
but then that one time out of a thousand, that one idea might be like, Hey, let's put a computer in a phone.

00:24:07.138 --> 00:24:07.419
How about this?

00:24:07.709 --> 00:24:08.209
Let's do that.

00:24:09.219 --> 00:24:11.648
'cause everyone was saying the iPhone was like a dumb idea.

00:24:11.648 --> 00:24:14.118
I think, well not everyone, but a lot of people were saying that was dumb when it came out.

00:24:14.118 --> 00:24:14.209
Right.

00:24:14.209 --> 00:24:15.858
Because they're, why would we need a computer on our phone?

00:24:15.858 --> 00:24:16.729
We got laptops.

00:24:17.028 --> 00:24:17.449
Right.

00:24:17.798 --> 00:24:20.588
But now, like everybody's got a smartphone, right?

00:24:20.588 --> 00:24:21.909
No such thing a phone.

00:24:21.909 --> 00:24:23.019
Now it's a smartphone.

00:24:23.578 --> 00:24:26.939
And that would be an example of chimpanzee would be like Steve Jobs.

00:24:27.068 --> 00:24:27.189
yeah.

00:24:27.219 --> 00:24:29.888
So it could have been me who invented the iPhone is what you're saying.

00:24:30.788 --> 00:24:31.388
could have, you know.

00:24:31.398 --> 00:24:32.209
Or the light bulb.

00:24:33.449 --> 00:24:35.528
Edison wasn't, but Tesla was.

00:24:35.538 --> 00:24:36.199
So there you go.

00:24:36.358 --> 00:24:36.739
Like Tesla.

00:24:36.749 --> 00:24:38.548
what was the other one you were wondering?

00:24:39.298 --> 00:24:42.159
it was a Fox, which is very different.

00:24:42.159 --> 00:24:47.718
I only was thinking about that because you said you're in real estate and there's a lot of foxes and sales.

00:24:48.179 --> 00:24:53.898
Like, and then you had that question about sales and foxes are the stereotypical, sales expert.

00:24:53.909 --> 00:25:01.699
You know, they know what people want, they adjust to it and they say the right thing that's going to get them the right result in that moment.

00:25:02.183 --> 00:25:07.624
it seems like you're more motivated based on curiosity versus going on a roller coaster.

00:25:07.624 --> 00:25:10.263
Like Fox is really, their, their motivation is adrenaline.

00:25:10.273 --> 00:25:15.173
Like they really like to get like whatever physical thing is making them put their body pumped up.

00:25:15.469 --> 00:25:16.659
That's what they like most of all.

00:25:17.878 --> 00:25:18.409
Interesting.

00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:18.909
Okay.

00:25:20.548 --> 00:25:20.798
Yeah.

00:25:20.798 --> 00:25:30.338
I mean, I think I often say, when I was younger and I was really motivated to just close deals, I feel like I would go towards, you know, just trying to do what it took to close it.

00:25:30.348 --> 00:25:37.538
And now I feel like I'm more like I see something and somebody might say they want something and I could easily close them because I can tell what they want and say it.

00:25:37.538 --> 00:25:39.588
But I realized it might not be the best thing for them.

00:25:39.638 --> 00:25:44.229
And so I often bring that up and then it gets them scared and they don't do it.

00:25:44.459 --> 00:25:52.788
And that keeps me from closing like I used to when I, in my younger days, I think, I was going to say that's probably the, I mean, I'm always saying that's the best motivation of all is like what makes us happy, right?

00:25:52.788 --> 00:25:55.219
Not what you think is going to make us happy.

00:25:55.509 --> 00:25:58.278
And generally that comes with finding what we truly value.

00:25:58.318 --> 00:25:59.608
and it seems like for you, like.

00:25:59.949 --> 00:26:03.159
Your true value comes from just like, Oh, I read about Shohei Otani.

00:26:03.189 --> 00:26:04.749
Oh, that's really interesting what he's learning.

00:26:04.788 --> 00:26:05.669
I'm going to buy that book.

00:26:05.739 --> 00:26:08.328
Oh, this is like, that's what she got excited about.

00:26:08.328 --> 00:26:11.568
And that's very chimpanzee, like, like just getting excited about learning.

00:26:12.128 --> 00:26:12.838
I'll be on foxes.

00:26:12.838 --> 00:26:14.699
This is not a diss on Fox's guy.

00:26:14.699 --> 00:26:17.169
Just complimented them so much, but they're not always the most focused.

00:26:17.199 --> 00:26:24.219
They don't really care about reading and learning, to be honest, like they like to do so they learn by doing less by reading.

00:26:24.528 --> 00:26:27.338
Not to say that they never read, but they're definitely more like.

00:26:27.818 --> 00:26:29.659
They're the kind of person like you can't find it in a book.

00:26:29.669 --> 00:26:30.848
He's got to do it to learn.

00:26:30.969 --> 00:26:34.608
you know, once again, borrowing from all animal types, right, we can become better people.

00:26:35.388 --> 00:26:44.479
are there you know, I know from like I once went through a disc assessment like workshop It was like a full week long in a past job where it was done.

00:26:44.479 --> 00:27:02.334
So well, they got us to do all these exercise together So we'd all know how you know, like how to talk to each other and whatnot but it also showed like how not to in a way that you know, Like there are certain personalities that they just clash so much that You You know, you just shouldn't put them in a room together, right?

00:27:03.183 --> 00:27:05.233
So what are, what are some of those?

00:27:05.233 --> 00:27:05.913
I'm curious.

00:27:06.644 --> 00:27:09.364
Well, I think everyone will clash with everyone.

00:27:09.433 --> 00:27:12.183
I mean, everyone's going to clash differently with different people.

00:27:12.233 --> 00:27:16.713
And obviously if you're in the same pack, you're going to see your similarities to where you'll probably get along.

00:27:16.723 --> 00:27:19.084
Like if you're with a bunch of Smiths, you'd be like, Oh, this is pretty cool.

00:27:19.084 --> 00:27:21.403
Like these, like Avengers.

00:27:21.618 --> 00:27:24.479
Where Tony Stark meets Bruce Banner.

00:27:24.778 --> 00:27:28.229
Like, I think Bruce Banner says something like, scientific.

00:27:28.229 --> 00:27:31.878
I've heard what he says, but he did like, and then Tony Stark saying, Oh God, finally someone who speaks English.

00:27:32.128 --> 00:27:33.479
That's exactly how personalities are.

00:27:33.479 --> 00:27:36.398
Like, we find people who are similar to us, we're like, Oh, that person's speaking my language.

00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:37.038
Right?

00:27:37.038 --> 00:27:45.403
So, on the flip side, the people who don't speak our language, we might have a difficult time communicating to where it's, just going to cause conflict.

00:27:45.624 --> 00:27:45.844
Yeah.

00:27:45.894 --> 00:27:59.624
so like for you, for example, a chimpanzee, that's an information follower, that's pragmatic with that information, they, like to know things they would probably clash most with someone who's like rigid and very like, no, this is the way things are.

00:28:00.453 --> 00:28:02.284
Like a certain kind of certainty.

00:28:02.523 --> 00:28:06.463
And also looking at not only that, but knowledge as not being fun.

00:28:06.824 --> 00:28:10.723
Like if you were in school and you had a teacher who was like, no, it's not about learning.

00:28:10.723 --> 00:28:14.433
It's about doing these things because these things are the things we need to do to be adults.

00:28:14.943 --> 00:28:19.503
Like having a rigid process, that would be someone I'd imagine you'd clash with your personality.

00:28:19.884 --> 00:28:20.513
Interesting.

00:28:20.673 --> 00:28:21.054
Yeah.

00:28:21.413 --> 00:28:21.824
Yeah.

00:28:21.824 --> 00:28:27.173
As you say that, I'm thinking like in the first case, like a boss, it's a heavy micromanager.

00:28:27.253 --> 00:28:39.403
That's always been my heaviest, my, you know, I mean, I've left jobs just because somebody was such a micromanager that, you know, they wanted me to do everything a certain way and it just, that was not good.

00:28:39.453 --> 00:28:43.814
But the ones who let me lose, I mean, I performed really well for, right?

00:28:44.618 --> 00:28:48.179
Yeah, it's all, that's why it's all about understanding each person's strengths and weaknesses.

00:28:48.179 --> 00:28:50.719
that person is going to have a lot of strengths too, right?

00:28:50.769 --> 00:28:57.858
They're going to be the one that you focus on, like the things that don't always seem to matter, but can matter in the long run.

00:28:58.328 --> 00:29:02.449
but will they come up with a lot of great ideas to change things and maybe revolutionize things?

00:29:02.509 --> 00:29:03.038
Maybe not.

00:29:03.068 --> 00:29:03.528
and that's okay.

00:29:03.528 --> 00:29:04.499
we need everyone's strengths.

00:29:05.048 --> 00:29:07.199
We just don't want, we don't need everyone clashing.

00:29:07.219 --> 00:29:10.578
And I think like, that's the idea with the book is like, we are different.

00:29:10.598 --> 00:29:17.308
And I think it's important to realize that so that we can get along better and not try to change people into something that makes sense.

00:29:17.778 --> 00:29:24.598
So I'm wondering now that I know I'm a Smith and a chimpanzee is part of that pack, what are the other members of the Smith pack?

00:29:24.648 --> 00:29:29.398
The other members of the Smiths, there are the killer whales, the spiders.

00:29:30.278 --> 00:29:31.999
And then the owls.

00:29:32.588 --> 00:29:37.348
Oh, and even when it gets into the pack, I kind of split them up two ways.

00:29:37.509 --> 00:29:42.499
So you would be more similar to an owl than you would be to the killer whales and spiders.

00:29:43.048 --> 00:29:50.739
killer whales and spiders are very pragmatic and not to say that a chimpanzee is not pragmatic, but killer whales and spiders are very, very pragmatic.

00:29:50.739 --> 00:29:52.519
They're really, really ambitious.

00:29:53.028 --> 00:30:05.048
not to say that chimpanzees aren't, but like, Just you just end up knowing the difference when like, you're like, like the owl or the person who thought they were an owl, they thought because they thought strategically, I'm like, really, when's the last time you played chess?

00:30:05.509 --> 00:30:06.288
And she's like chess.

00:30:06.338 --> 00:30:11.818
And I'm like, Well, yeah, if you don't think of chess as like a natural kind of like game or strategy games is something that you want to do.

00:30:12.219 --> 00:30:14.239
I'm like, you are 100 percent not an owl.

00:30:14.528 --> 00:30:28.969
You know, like, so owls and chimpanzees do actually love strategy games, mind games and stuff, and that's the big difference is they kind of look at information as kind of fun, whereas killer whales and spiders look as information to be used to advance their, ambitions.

00:30:30.209 --> 00:30:30.798
Interesting.

00:30:30.949 --> 00:30:31.358
Okay.

00:30:32.169 --> 00:30:40.878
like there's a lot of famous, like, anyone who's seen, I mentioned Harry Potter back in the day, but Harry Potter, like Hermione Granger, she's a good example of a fellow Smith, but she would be a killer whale.

00:30:41.068 --> 00:30:43.949
Cause you know, she's all about like getting ahead, getting forward.

00:30:44.019 --> 00:30:45.459
Where does she go to get some trouble?

00:30:45.459 --> 00:30:46.479
She goes to the library.

00:30:46.699 --> 00:30:47.078
Right.

00:30:47.929 --> 00:30:48.138
Yeah.

00:30:48.499 --> 00:30:52.608
There are a little bit more rule followers, but not in the same way that a gatherer might be a rule follower.

00:30:52.608 --> 00:30:58.338
Gatherers want safety and security, so they follow the rules so they can have that so their teachers and authority figures aren't mad at them.

00:30:58.818 --> 00:31:01.269
Killer whales follow the rules when it suits them.

00:31:01.618 --> 00:31:05.308
And preferably they follow the rules so they can get to a point where they're the ones creating the rules.

00:31:06.078 --> 00:31:06.179
Yeah.

00:31:06.288 --> 00:31:09.628
as you see, like in the Harry Potter series, Hermione follows the rules until she doesn't.

00:31:09.699 --> 00:31:14.709
And for the most part, most of the time they're breaking the rules, it's based on a plan that she herself has created.

00:31:14.709 --> 00:31:15.009
Right.

00:31:15.009 --> 00:31:24.009
So that is generally the killer whale role in society is to like create plans that they're the CEO type, you know, that would be an interesting aspect.

00:31:24.048 --> 00:31:24.308
Yeah.

00:31:24.838 --> 00:31:27.278
Okay, so which one are you?

00:31:28.179 --> 00:31:48.259
I am a shaman type, which makes sense because I talk a lot and I, but I'm big on like self knowledge and kind of promoting self knowledge and, so I would be one of like the also minority types, when it comes to personality and all my focus would be on, yeah, my priority would always be on self knowledge and specifically I'm a baboon.

00:31:48.773 --> 00:31:52.413
Which is actually, outwardly we can kind of seem similar to chimpanzees.

00:31:52.453 --> 00:31:54.743
I know chimpanzees really well because my father was a chimpanzee.

00:31:54.743 --> 00:32:00.864
So he used to think of us as kind of the same until a certain point when he realized, oh no, my son's a little different than I am.

00:32:00.874 --> 00:32:03.193
Like, why is he like doing these things that don't make sense?

00:32:03.493 --> 00:32:05.713
You know, because I would do stuff that was just purely irrational.

00:32:05.983 --> 00:32:09.124
And he would be like, why are you doing that when you're going to get in trouble?

00:32:09.304 --> 00:32:10.594
Like, why don't you just do this?

00:32:10.723 --> 00:32:14.013
Even though I, even if you don't agree with it, you might as well just do this, this way.

00:32:14.263 --> 00:32:16.723
So that way you can wait till you have your moment.

00:32:17.128 --> 00:32:20.118
And I, and as a kid I understood that, but sometimes I just couldn't help myself.

00:32:20.118 --> 00:32:30.409
Sometimes my principles just got in the way of my brain, I guess, my common sense, and I would just do like stuff like push people into swimming pools at parties and I don't know, the dumbest things.

00:32:30.808 --> 00:32:34.189
But anyway, yeah, so I'm a baboon type and we're very, vocal.

00:32:35.189 --> 00:32:36.429
So Eric, I'm curious.

00:32:36.429 --> 00:32:42.858
I'd like to ask you on a few people that we, you know, just, just to see what you think about the personality types.

00:32:42.858 --> 00:32:50.909
I'm thinking people, we all know celebrities and just, you know, I'd be curious to know what they are, based on your personality typing.

00:32:51.548 --> 00:32:53.548
So let's start with, we mentioned his name already.

00:32:53.699 --> 00:32:55.618
Shahani, Shahay Ohtani.

00:32:56.298 --> 00:32:56.929
Oh, okay.

00:32:57.068 --> 00:32:57.278
Yeah.

00:32:57.278 --> 00:32:57.868
Ohtani is.

00:32:58.739 --> 00:33:03.538
He's difficult in the sense, like it always, I always go between two thinking about Otani, right?

00:33:03.548 --> 00:33:07.759
Cause, he seems so nice and everyone always describes him as really nice.

00:33:08.469 --> 00:33:19.528
but he's also very, I think for lack of a better term, obsessive about a specific craft and a specific tool, obviously a baseball bat or a baseball, if he's pitching.

00:33:19.848 --> 00:33:20.189
Right.

00:33:20.189 --> 00:33:26.459
So generally people are that obsessed with like perfection and perfecting a craft are sharks.

00:33:27.108 --> 00:33:34.868
Like, and that falls under the hunter pack, but butterflies are also can be very, very obsessive.

00:33:34.878 --> 00:33:37.449
They're a little bit more, focused on aesthetics normally.

00:33:37.888 --> 00:33:47.729
so I, that's why I veered more towards the shark angle, but since everyone says he's such a nice guy and so gentle and sweet, then I actually, I'm going to say he's a butterfly and those are both hunters.

00:33:48.179 --> 00:33:52.209
on opposite sides, but they're both hunter types and hunters are very visceral.

00:33:52.209 --> 00:33:53.788
They focus on what's on external.

00:33:53.878 --> 00:33:55.528
They're very good at adjusting on the fly.

00:33:55.538 --> 00:33:56.368
They're spontaneous.

00:33:56.459 --> 00:33:58.019
Like I said, they use tools quite a bit.

00:33:58.858 --> 00:34:02.278
And, they would be the type of person who's not always the best, like, book student.

00:34:02.278 --> 00:34:14.099
Like, they're there in school, they might not want to read everything, you know, but if you give them something they're very interested in and it's like a tool and they can get their hands wrapped around it and like play with it and learn that way, then that's how they master their craft.

00:34:14.798 --> 00:34:15.119
Okay.

00:34:15.168 --> 00:34:15.458
Hey.

00:34:16.648 --> 00:34:18.369
How about, Elon Musk?

00:34:18.369 --> 00:34:20.009
Elon Musk?

00:34:20.068 --> 00:34:21.608
Oh, you know, he's a chimpanzee.

00:34:21.949 --> 00:34:22.349
Okay.

00:34:22.358 --> 00:34:26.148
So, and I think I described chimpanzees before, and that makes sense.

00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:27.728
Like, information, he's all about information.

00:34:28.449 --> 00:34:31.639
He's very, like, almost frantic in a way, right?

00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:33.088
Like, oh, I'm interested in this, I'm interested in this.

00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:34.838
And then he pursues that particular thing.

00:34:35.378 --> 00:34:36.679
yeah, he's definitely a chimpanzee.

00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:38.739
He also strikes me as being very principled.

00:34:39.708 --> 00:34:55.668
Right, meaning he's got his own principles, and I'm not, I didn't mean principle in a judgmental way at all, like whether we agree with him or not, but he's definitely got his own and he does what it takes to, you know, instill those or fight for those, right?

00:34:56.248 --> 00:34:56.639
Oh, right.

00:34:56.639 --> 00:35:16.483
He has his ideas about how he thinks things are like scientifically, and then he pursues that even if it's like in the minority, right opinion, or even as a small percentage, and I'm just talking about like, Let's, let's face it, EVs were not a thing like years ago, and now they're slowly becoming a thing and much more or so now, like in certain parts of the country, right?

00:35:16.514 --> 00:35:18.523
And that, I think we kind of forget it.

00:35:19.233 --> 00:35:21.634
I guess it's like the idea of the smartphone, right?

00:35:21.634 --> 00:35:25.963
Like everyone kind of thought it was dumb when it came out, or not everyone, but a lot of people thought it was dumb.

00:35:26.353 --> 00:35:33.233
People probably wouldn't admit that now, but I think there's like half the population thought it was like a useless idea and now everybody has it.

00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:33.728
Sure.

00:35:33.759 --> 00:35:44.199
And that might be true for even like in like probably less than a decade, you know, and that's probably due to, like you said, he sticks with his principles of terms when it comes to like science and stuff.

00:35:44.539 --> 00:35:46.438
And that would still be a chimpanzee trait.

00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:48.628
Yeah.

00:35:48.628 --> 00:35:50.858
Like they're very, they have no problem being the rebels.

00:35:50.889 --> 00:35:53.039
They're like the, I always call them the cool nerd.

00:35:53.228 --> 00:35:54.889
That'd be a very good way to describe him.

00:35:54.929 --> 00:36:08.063
The cool nerd, you know, like, cause there's some that are just, You're a nerdy, but at least with chimpanzees, they kind of have this, like, I go to comic con and, you know, cosplay at comic con kind of vibe, you know, like they like their nerdy things.

00:36:08.063 --> 00:36:11.034
And I'm putting down air quotes, cause there's nothing wrong with liking all that stuff.

00:36:11.474 --> 00:36:15.023
Um, and they like it so much that they have fun with it that it makes it seem cool.

00:36:15.344 --> 00:36:17.503
And I feel like Musk is kind of like a cool nerd.

00:36:18.164 --> 00:36:18.603
Okay.

00:36:19.304 --> 00:36:19.844
Interesting.

00:36:20.514 --> 00:36:24.623
let's talk about some, some that, you know, going to be a little controversial today.

00:36:25.614 --> 00:36:26.994
let's go with, Kamala Harris.

00:36:27.184 --> 00:36:28.224
Kamala Harris.

00:36:29.844 --> 00:36:30.414
Oh, okay.

00:36:30.423 --> 00:36:34.793
So I got a great thing with Kamala Harris because obviously there's the election and she's running against Donald Trump.

00:36:35.228 --> 00:36:40.128
Um, and I always use the reference point of, um, I always used to compare Donald Trump and Bill Clinton.

00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.778
And now I just use Harris.

00:36:41.869 --> 00:36:44.309
Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, and Kamala Harris.

00:36:44.914 --> 00:36:46.713
have the exact same personality type.

00:36:47.494 --> 00:36:48.173
They're foxes.

00:36:48.204 --> 00:36:49.184
They're all foxes.

00:36:49.673 --> 00:36:53.893
So it's also a good measure of saying like, look, we're different.

00:36:53.934 --> 00:36:57.594
Even if we share the same personality type, we have different backgrounds.

00:36:57.824 --> 00:37:00.193
We were raised differently, come from different cultures.

00:37:00.204 --> 00:37:03.014
All those things have an influence on what makes us who we are.

00:37:03.014 --> 00:37:07.423
We have different character, like just because there's no, everyone's like, what's the worst type and what's the best type.

00:37:08.293 --> 00:37:13.333
Every type can be absolutely awful and absolutely great, depending on the person, right?

00:37:13.393 --> 00:37:32.653
but I think if you look at, especially Bill Clinton and Donald Trump, I mean, even though they come from, well, I mean, maybe, maybe like 20 years ago, they didn't come from different ends of the political spectrum, but now, let's say they would come from different ends of the political spectrum, just looking at their biography and what they've done, I think people can easily see, they are pretty similar in a lot of ways, personality wise.

00:37:33.204 --> 00:37:37.434
Kamala is that same way, like she seems She's very good on the spot.

00:37:37.443 --> 00:37:39.773
She seems very coachable, just like foxes are.

00:37:39.773 --> 00:37:40.813
Foxes are very coachable.

00:37:40.824 --> 00:37:41.793
They're all about doing.

00:37:41.943 --> 00:37:42.704
They're all about acting.

00:37:42.704 --> 00:37:47.764
If you give her like a script, and you give her certain plays to run, she will execute those plays.

00:37:47.824 --> 00:37:51.543
a lot of politicians in general are foxes, because that's essentially what they do.

00:37:51.543 --> 00:37:52.503
It's like they have a playbook.

00:37:52.813 --> 00:37:58.213
They have advisors telling them what to do and when they get put on the spot, they're the ones who have to do it, which is no easy task, right?

00:37:58.213 --> 00:38:02.724
If it was easy, everyone would do it, so foxes are very prevalent in politics.

00:38:02.753 --> 00:38:04.344
And so I'd say Kamala Harris is a fox.

00:38:04.943 --> 00:38:05.594
Interesting.

00:38:05.914 --> 00:38:13.153
And going back to your earlier analogy of a fox where they're, they seem, you know, I interpreted them as being closers in the sales aspect.

00:38:13.153 --> 00:38:15.003
It just will tell you what you want to hear to close.

00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:15.978
Right.

00:38:15.978 --> 00:38:18.648
And that makes sense for the two of them.

00:38:18.688 --> 00:38:22.159
I would argue though, your point about coachability.

00:38:23.139 --> 00:38:30.969
I mean, I was going to ask you about Donald Trump next, but you kind of answered it, but I would argue, I mean, that's one of the biggest complaints his team says is he's not very coachable.

00:38:31.028 --> 00:38:32.259
He still goes off on his own.

00:38:32.268 --> 00:38:32.568
Right.

00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:42.708
Yeah, I mean, I, I was, I didn't want to say that he's a bad fox, but essentially that's, I mean, yeah, that's just, I mean, once again, just going not to get too political, but probably it's his background, right?

00:38:42.708 --> 00:38:44.219
He probably was never whole.

00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:46.619
Like, they're, by instinct, very coachable.

00:38:47.168 --> 00:38:47.929
it's like Michael Jordan.

00:38:48.378 --> 00:39:02.119
Michael Jordan's a shark, he's not a fox, but like, you, he was not the greatest student, but you know that if he respects you, and especially for something that he loves, which obviously is a sport, he'll, sharks will listen, like, they'll run through a wall for you.

00:39:02.309 --> 00:39:11.849
You know, same with foxes, they're very cool, but of course Trump, you know, his background, he had a pretty privileged background where he never had to be told what to do and this is the right way to do things.

00:39:12.329 --> 00:39:16.969
So she, and once again, she was well coached for the debate and thus, it shows right?

00:39:16.989 --> 00:39:19.498
Like she's very, she can follow the plan.

00:39:20.068 --> 00:39:20.478
Gotcha.

00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:21.079
Okay.

00:39:22.608 --> 00:39:26.778
how about Snoop Dogg?

00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:32.548
I think, I know I keep saying the same animals, but it's funny that like, I have to say a butterfly.

00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:33.389
He's in a weird way.

00:39:33.389 --> 00:39:35.784
He is the same personality type as Shohei Otani.

00:39:36.204 --> 00:39:38.034
You know, butterflies are very chill.

00:39:38.273 --> 00:39:40.304
And the first thing I think a Snoop dog is chill.

00:39:40.583 --> 00:39:41.543
I mean, that's probably the first word.

00:39:41.594 --> 00:39:42.693
they enjoy themselves.

00:39:42.983 --> 00:39:43.833
They relax.

00:39:44.128 --> 00:39:45.759
they have fun.

00:39:46.349 --> 00:39:47.228
I'd say he's a butterfly.

00:39:47.528 --> 00:39:47.938
Okay.

00:39:48.489 --> 00:39:49.048
It's funny.

00:39:49.048 --> 00:39:58.509
I followed him up after the politicians that we are choosing between now because, uh, I've, I've, uh, I've secretly been thinking of writing in my vote for it.

00:39:59.579 --> 00:40:02.588
Snoop Dogg, just because he is so chill, right?

00:40:02.608 --> 00:40:04.518
Like he's now, it's pretty funny.

00:40:04.518 --> 00:40:05.278
His evolution.

00:40:05.278 --> 00:40:07.764
Now you just say, And you can't help but to want to smile.

00:40:07.764 --> 00:40:12.463
He's probably, you know, no matter what you thought about his music or whatever, people seem to like him.

00:40:12.463 --> 00:40:16.344
I mean, he's incredibly likable and so, and chill, like, you know.

00:40:16.923 --> 00:40:17.264
Yeah.

00:40:17.264 --> 00:40:19.893
I grew up listening to his music, you know, I was a kid of the nineties.

00:40:19.893 --> 00:40:20.443
And it's like, wow.

00:40:20.494 --> 00:40:21.123
it's so funny.

00:40:21.634 --> 00:40:23.603
he was always really chill as a rapper in style.

00:40:23.603 --> 00:40:26.304
He was smooth, but then really overly aggressive.

00:40:26.773 --> 00:40:27.353
But it's funny now.

00:40:27.353 --> 00:40:34.514
he's like, a puppy dog and he's friends with Martha Stewart, you know, like that's just funny and awesome.

00:40:36.043 --> 00:40:40.974
I was going to wrap it up there, but I kind of want to ask an opposite one then while we're on the rap ones.

00:40:41.364 --> 00:40:42.273
How about Eminem?

00:40:44.393 --> 00:40:45.213
Oh, Eminem.

00:40:45.614 --> 00:40:49.333
You know, he might be a shark and I know I'm saying the same thing.

00:40:49.744 --> 00:40:58.434
Hunters are a lot, even though they make about a third of the population, they tend to get in, especially when it comes to entertainment, they're definitely going to have a larger percentage of the pop.

00:40:58.443 --> 00:41:01.514
They're going to be a larger percent of the population when it comes to entertainment and politics.

00:41:01.623 --> 00:41:03.733
So I keep saying hunters, but yeah, he's a shark.

00:41:04.134 --> 00:41:06.994
And so that's like the aggressive version of the butterfly.

00:41:07.539 --> 00:41:09.179
Fly, you know, like they're same thing.

00:41:09.179 --> 00:41:10.239
They, they master craft.

00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:12.798
They're really focused on it, but they're hyper aggressive.

00:41:12.798 --> 00:41:14.489
So like Michael Jordan would be a shark.

00:41:14.659 --> 00:41:15.009
Yeah.

00:41:15.278 --> 00:41:15.559
Okay.

00:41:15.759 --> 00:41:16.219
Makes sense.

00:41:16.539 --> 00:41:17.039
Well, thank you.

00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:18.079
That is, this was fun.

00:41:18.338 --> 00:41:21.338
I could go on all day just asking, Hey, this, who's this and that.

00:41:21.358 --> 00:41:27.809
And we, we talked about maybe doing my kids, but I thought I'd leave that out now and just everybody knows.

00:41:28.528 --> 00:41:32.838
so on that note, I'd love to, switch over to our world famous Wayfinder 4.

00:41:33.469 --> 00:41:35.489
Eric, can you give us a hack that you use?

00:41:35.489 --> 00:41:41.068
This is something you kind of use every day to cheat life with an app or routine, habit, whatever.

00:41:42.579 --> 00:41:45.438
I'd say, I mean, this is tricky because I, you know, when they say a hack.

00:41:46.184 --> 00:41:53.233
It's more about like what works for you, I feel like the hat that I've always had is I do generally do not wake up even though I did today.

00:41:53.873 --> 00:41:56.983
I do not wake up before 10 a.

00:41:56.983 --> 00:41:57.284
m.

00:41:57.824 --> 00:41:58.994
That is my hack for me.

00:41:59.014 --> 00:42:04.844
And what I would say for it to apply for everyone else is just find your perfect time to wake up.

00:42:05.153 --> 00:42:06.454
You know, it doesn't have to be early.

00:42:06.454 --> 00:42:15.094
I think everyone thinks of the early to bed early to rise line from Benjamin Franklin, but I find that it helps me wake up around that time because I work late.

00:42:15.483 --> 00:42:20.364
So the cool thing, why it's a cool hack is if you get in that middle.

00:42:20.364 --> 00:42:22.454
So most of my work is done in the middle of the time.

00:42:22.483 --> 00:42:26.353
So like maybe from 12 to eight is when I I'm most productive.

00:42:26.583 --> 00:42:29.614
And the fun is part about that is I want to do something early in the morning.

00:42:29.704 --> 00:42:33.304
I can, and if I want to do something later, I can, I can do both things.

00:42:33.864 --> 00:42:35.534
And I get the option of doing that.

00:42:36.869 --> 00:42:37.449
Interesting.

00:42:37.588 --> 00:42:38.048
Okay.

00:42:38.748 --> 00:42:40.668
How about a favorite?

00:42:41.838 --> 00:42:44.978
Could be book, show, a hobby.

00:42:46.168 --> 00:42:47.668
I noticed you were into Pez.

00:42:49.429 --> 00:42:50.619
Oh, favorite Pez.

00:42:50.619 --> 00:42:51.748
Well, I don't know if I have a favorite Pez.

00:42:51.768 --> 00:42:54.358
I do have a Pez dispenser that's Spider Man.

00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:59.168
I don't know if that counts as a favorite, but Well, I read somewhere you were big into Pez, but yeah.

00:42:59.753 --> 00:43:00.454
No, no, go ahead.

00:43:00.574 --> 00:43:12.324
Oh yeah, I love, I love Pez Dispensers, yeah, I mean I love that Seinfeld episode, but I would say favorite book, just because I've been mentioning a lot of pop culture things and this is loosely pop culture, I'd say, favorite, well favorite author, my favorite author is J.

00:43:12.324 --> 00:43:12.443
D.

00:43:12.443 --> 00:43:12.914
Salinger.

00:43:13.438 --> 00:43:13.969
That would be.

00:43:14.829 --> 00:43:15.168
Okay.

00:43:15.219 --> 00:43:16.208
Catcher in the Rye.

00:43:16.478 --> 00:43:22.148
Even though Catcher in the Rye is not my favorite book, it's Franny and Zoe, which I think is incredibly underrated.

00:43:22.509 --> 00:43:26.248
so for anyone out there who loves Catcher in the Rye, Franny and Zoe is better.

00:43:26.268 --> 00:43:27.929
I 100 percent recommend you read that.

00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:29.068
Okay.

00:43:29.449 --> 00:43:29.798
Thank you.

00:43:30.548 --> 00:43:33.264
How about a piece of advice for your younger self?

00:43:35.704 --> 00:43:36.614
Ooh, peace.

00:43:37.324 --> 00:43:45.764
I would definitely say in school, when I was in school, the advice I would give, and I give that to my students now, is do as many practical things as possible.

00:43:45.784 --> 00:43:47.713
Meaning if you like something, just do it.

00:43:47.713 --> 00:43:52.844
Don't worry about going to a class on it, or don't try to focus so much on the academics.

00:43:52.844 --> 00:43:56.454
Just like if you like basket weaving, basket weave.

00:43:56.483 --> 00:43:59.333
If you like puppetry, do puppetry.

00:44:00.224 --> 00:44:07.054
You know, because I think if you pursue those things, you'll get good at those things, and thus, you never know what you might use in life, Interesting.

00:44:07.313 --> 00:44:07.724
Okay.

00:44:08.733 --> 00:44:12.889
We could have a whole episode on that one, because I think that will contradict a lot of parental advice.

00:44:12.889 --> 00:44:13.543
Yeah.

00:44:14.224 --> 00:44:25.639
Oh, about, focusing on school I always tell people, sorry, I'm getting off topic, but I help people in college applications as well, like to write there because I'm a writing coach and I help writing these essays, but I really use it as a means of finding themselves.

00:44:25.969 --> 00:44:27.409
obviously cause I'm a life coach as well.

00:44:27.668 --> 00:44:30.699
And it's so funny what kids think that colleges want to hear.

00:44:30.878 --> 00:44:32.579
And I'm like, don't worry about what people want to hear.

00:44:32.579 --> 00:44:33.639
Just be interesting.

00:44:33.818 --> 00:44:38.929
And what's interesting to college is not, Oh, like I got an A in my AP chemistry class.

00:44:38.929 --> 00:44:41.278
It's more like, no, I'm really into magic.

00:44:41.309 --> 00:44:42.429
And I went to perform in it.

00:44:42.949 --> 00:44:49.268
I went to practice performing and I like I know these tricks and stuff because that's more like a human being Yeah, it seems more real.

00:44:49.759 --> 00:44:50.079
Yeah.

00:44:50.969 --> 00:44:51.898
Oh, that's interesting.

00:44:51.909 --> 00:45:04.068
Yeah, you know, it's funny my wife is a college independent college counselor or admissions advisor and she doesn't help with the essay part of it But when they, families ask her, that's exactly what she goes into.

00:45:04.099 --> 00:45:08.458
Like find something outside of what they want to hear and talk about that, right.

00:45:08.458 --> 00:45:13.628
Your hobby, your interest, you know, they want to know what makes up your personality, your interest a hundred percent.

00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:15.179
So that makes a lot of sense.

00:45:16.179 --> 00:45:17.989
what about it's just like real people right?

00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:19.298
Absolutely.

00:45:19.358 --> 00:45:27.679
I mean I often when I'd interview people to be on my team I would ask them What a hobby or passion interest is and then I want to hear how deep they go into it I mean?

00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:33.938
I just love when I can hear passion in people's voices about something that makes me super interested Like you said puppetry.

00:45:33.938 --> 00:45:40.708
I have no interest in puppetry But if you do and you explain to me What it's all about and I can feel your passion.

00:45:40.708 --> 00:45:43.829
I'll somehow absorb that energy and I'll get into it.

00:45:43.829 --> 00:45:51.498
I think that's a great trait and it gets me interested in puppetry, you know, It also tells me that you can go deep into something, right?

00:45:51.498 --> 00:45:55.778
You're willing to go into a mastery level pursuit of something which is interesting, right?

00:45:57.224 --> 00:46:02.094
What about, last one, either, you get a choice of either a big opportunity or a limiting belief?

00:46:03.853 --> 00:46:04.773
A limiting belief?

00:46:05.193 --> 00:46:06.239
Mm hmm.

00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.543
Like, meaning, like, if people have this belief, it limits them?

00:46:10.804 --> 00:46:11.434
Exactly.

00:46:11.583 --> 00:46:12.003
Yeah.

00:46:12.114 --> 00:46:17.494
I would say I like the limiting belief is then it just lets me preach a little more about, like when I work with my students.

00:46:17.594 --> 00:46:24.684
I do think the belief that people, a lot of my students have that is limiting is that there's like this linear approach to life, right?

00:46:24.693 --> 00:46:30.304
Like you're going to do this, this, this, this, this, and they never focus on who they are and what they really want.

00:46:30.304 --> 00:46:34.043
And I think at the end of the day, life isn't linear.

00:46:34.054 --> 00:46:36.784
You know, there's so many different ways to get to where we are.

00:46:36.884 --> 00:46:38.164
And then once we're there, yeah.

00:46:38.518 --> 00:46:41.099
There's so many different ways to go from there to somewhere else, right?

00:46:41.099 --> 00:46:43.688
We don't know what life gives us and how life changes us.

00:46:43.688 --> 00:46:47.989
And so many of my students have like this plan and it ends like at 30.

00:46:48.219 --> 00:46:56.918
I think they're, I mean, they don't know that, but it's definitely, I'm like, Oh, so your plan is to like, go to college, get a good job afterwards, get married, start a family.

00:46:57.159 --> 00:46:58.478
I'm like, okay, what age are you?

00:46:58.518 --> 00:46:59.358
Like about 30?

00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:00.548
When do people die?

00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:01.429
Like what else do you have planned?

00:47:01.438 --> 00:47:04.338
Like they don't actually, they think their life ends at that point.

00:47:04.389 --> 00:47:08.798
I'm like, you know, the average age, I think in America, like in the late seventies, I think, or 80.

00:47:08.889 --> 00:47:10.349
So you got 50 years of your life left.

00:47:10.349 --> 00:47:11.248
You know, what are you going to do with that?

00:47:11.338 --> 00:47:17.588
You know, maybe like actually have passions that you like and maybe pursue those and integrate that with the things that can make you successful.

00:47:17.869 --> 00:47:18.969
I do think it limits people.

00:47:20.753 --> 00:47:21.284
It's interesting.

00:47:22.114 --> 00:47:24.353
That's a great, that's really great.

00:47:24.353 --> 00:47:33.943
I think this is something that like, after we go through like our midlife crisis type of era phase in life, we start to accept, Oh wow, we, we have so much time left.

00:47:34.414 --> 00:47:35.713
I feel like that's where I'm at now.

00:47:35.764 --> 00:47:42.003
And I feel like, you know, I used to think like, Oh, I didn't start this young enough, so I could never be, you know, this, that, or the other.

00:47:42.344 --> 00:47:50.813
But really, I feel like, Holy cow, you know, If I start this now, from 20 years from now, I'd still probably have another 20, 30 years after that.

00:47:50.824 --> 00:47:55.143
Like, I could really become great at something, you know, between now and then.

00:47:55.143 --> 00:47:56.454
Yeah, we're not limited by anything.

00:47:56.724 --> 00:47:57.733
Yeah, it's incredible.

00:47:57.753 --> 00:48:00.523
Yeah, I mean, the only thing you probably won't be is an NBA basketball player.

00:48:00.523 --> 00:48:03.864
So, I'm probably going to say you're probably not in your future.

00:48:04.094 --> 00:48:04.304
Yeah.

00:48:04.313 --> 00:48:06.253
Or any athlete, any professional athlete.

00:48:06.503 --> 00:48:09.563
But that's really the only thing that limits us is our, like, our physical bodies.

00:48:09.563 --> 00:48:12.173
But, you know what they say, like, the golden girls?

00:48:12.664 --> 00:48:39.059
are the same age that the, like, fictionally speaking, image that the girls in sex in the city are but like it's so funny how our perception of age has changed right golden girls like oh they're like in a retirement home that's the end of their life they're just kind of like going fading into the distance but they're the same age as the sex in the city characters who when we see that they're like oh no they're like living their life they got all these ambitions and still that they want to do Which is great, because it shows that, you know, we got a lot of life to live.

00:48:39.329 --> 00:48:39.543
We do.

00:48:39.543 --> 00:48:40.429
And we live it right.

00:48:40.998 --> 00:48:54.688
And even the elite athlete, I mean, there is a certain level that, at any age is really hard to achieve, at the same time, we're seeing some of these pro athletes extend that level of elitism later into, life and it's happening more and more all the time.

00:48:54.688 --> 00:49:00.699
you think about LeBron James now in his forties, Tom Brady, all these people, who played at the top.

00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:04.159
You know, their sport still at these late ages.

00:49:04.219 --> 00:49:12.318
So, you know, and then there's the next fear that there's so many more of them, they're not top 10 caliber, but there's a lot of them out there and it's wild.

00:49:12.659 --> 00:49:12.958
Yeah.

00:49:13.228 --> 00:49:14.378
Technology only gets better.

00:49:14.378 --> 00:49:14.599
Right.

00:49:14.628 --> 00:49:16.378
I mean, I think it was a field stems.

00:49:16.398 --> 00:49:18.228
You said he's not envious about what the players.

00:49:18.228 --> 00:49:21.108
He would never be envious about that.

00:49:21.108 --> 00:49:24.759
But what he is envious about is all like the science technology they have to recover.

00:49:24.759 --> 00:49:28.088
He's like, gosh, all we had was like a bucket of ice that we sat in.

00:49:28.088 --> 00:49:34.188
he's like, I wish I had all these things where like these hyperbaric chambers that I could sleep in at night to just one body could recover.

00:49:34.188 --> 00:49:39.719
So I could play a little, you know, a little more like a little, it would enhance my performance, If you play and you have all that stuff.

00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:41.759
So good for LeBron and Brady.

00:49:42.748 --> 00:49:43.498
A hundred percent.

00:49:43.588 --> 00:49:43.889
Yeah.

00:49:45.009 --> 00:49:47.449
So, that, you know, this has been really fun, Eric.

00:49:47.449 --> 00:49:48.889
I really enjoyed this conversation.

00:49:48.918 --> 00:49:53.849
If people want to know a little bit more about you or where to get your book, how can we go about doing that?

00:49:54.969 --> 00:50:02.949
Well, you know, the book is, I guess they say everywhere you can buy books, you can find it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or ordered from your local independent bookstore.

00:50:02.998 --> 00:50:03.358
bookshop.

00:50:03.579 --> 00:50:04.518
org is great for that.

00:50:04.568 --> 00:50:05.759
but yeah, you can find it anywhere.

00:50:05.918 --> 00:50:07.478
Just search up the power of personality.

00:50:07.978 --> 00:50:10.128
You can take the test on utopiaproject.

00:50:10.128 --> 00:50:10.518
com.

00:50:10.958 --> 00:50:12.668
and that's Y O U like YouTube.

00:50:12.918 --> 00:50:14.208
So utopiaproject.

00:50:14.208 --> 00:50:14.559
com.

00:50:14.588 --> 00:50:16.498
And then you can find out more about my life coaching.

00:50:16.798 --> 00:50:20.579
Strangely enough, on another website, just flip the order projectutopia.

00:50:20.838 --> 00:50:21.159
com.

00:50:22.068 --> 00:50:22.438
Okay.

00:50:23.579 --> 00:50:23.949
Excellent.

00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:25.648
Well, thanks again, Eric.

00:50:25.648 --> 00:50:29.898
This has been a lot of fun and I hope people check out your book and, utopia project.

00:50:31.048 --> 00:50:31.989
Thanks so much for having me.

00:50:36.759 --> 00:50:38.518
We hope you've enjoyed The Wayfinder Show.

00:50:38.668 --> 00:50:42.889
If you got value from this episode, please take a few seconds to leave us a 5 star rating and review.

00:50:43.179 --> 00:50:47.429
This will allow us to help more people find their way to live more authentic and exciting lives.

00:50:48.088 --> 00:50:49.389
We'll catch you on the next episode.